just another small observation

[WillyBWright]

Re: just another small observation

He didn't pass it all by himself. He didn't even write it all by himself. Too many big words. But he shoved his Enabling Act down everybody's throats with the name Patriot Act so fast that few even had time to read it, knowing full well that anybody that didn't vote for it would be labelled UNpatriotic. Only after it's pasage did it receive just scrutiny, and only then did those that voted Yay realize their error, then revised at their earliest opportunity. And don't forget who was in charge of the legislature at the time. Rubber-stamp Republicans who have now run out of ink in their stamp pads, too late to head-off this insanity.

Click here to see what Rodbolt is talking about in this thread.

( Click on Hitler's Enabling Act and Bush's Patriot Act above and see the frightening parallels. )

 

[treedancer]

Re: just another small observation

All what the hell, sorry Wilily, felt like banging my head against a brick wall today.

IF YOU THINK THE bill of Rights is just a scrap of paper, and if you think the separation of powers doctrine is history than the USA patriot act is for you. Myself I don’t think that it has outlived its usefulness.

I kinda like living in a country that has safeguards and Fifth Amendment protection of due process, and fourth amendment safeguards against unreasonable searches and seizures. This constitution has served us well for two hundred thirty some years; I don’t think we are committing national suicide by abiding by the provisions of the Fifth Amendment, and Fourth Amendment of the constitution.

That being said, our government is responsible for protecting us against foreign, and domestic enemies. When we are under attack, civil liberties cannot remain inviolable, but that’s a far cry from asserting that the may be flouted to wage war against fanatics.

US Patriot Act: Freedom from unreasonable searches: The government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation

US Constitution (Bill of Rights)
Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
US Patriot Act
Freedom from unreasonable searches: The government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation. [These changes were put in on 3/1/2006= Recipients of secret court orders to turn over sensitive information on individuals linked to terrorism investigations are not allowed to disclose those orders but can challenge the gag order after a year.]
US Constitution (Bill of Rights)
Amendment VI: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his
US Patriot Act
Right to a speedy and public trial: The government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
US Constitution (Bill of Rights)
Amendment VI: ... to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
US Patriot Act
Right to legal representation: The government may monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
US Constitution (Bill of Rights)
Amendment I: Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech ...
US Patriot Act
Freedom of speech: The government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation. These changes were put in on 3/1/2006= Libraries, including those that offer Internet access, would not be required to turn over information without the approval of a judge.
US Constitution (Bill of Rights)

Amendment VI: ... to be confronted with the witnesses against him .
US Patriot Act
Right to liberty: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. US citizens (labeled "unlawful combatants") have been held incommunicado and refused attorneys.[ These changes were put in on 3/1/2006 = Recipients of an FBI "national security letter" — an investigator's demand for access to personal or business information — would not have to tell the FBI if they consult a lawyer.]

Parts that Bush doesn’t like.

Bush shuns Patriot Act requirement

In addendum to law, he says oversight rules are not binding

Other parts he doesn’t like.
By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | March 24, 2006
WASHINGTON -- When President Bush signed the reauthorization of the USA Patriot Act this month, he included an addendum saying that he did not feel obliged to obey requirements that he inform Congress about how the FBI was using the act's expanded police powers.

But after the reporters and guests had left, the White House quietly issued a ''signing statement," an official document in which a president lays out his interpretation of a new law. Bush shuns Patriot Act requirement
In addendum to law, he says oversight rules are not binding [See link]

Anybody think that this could not be an abuse of power in the future? If not better take your blinders off.
Here are the links.


http://www.ii.fsu.edu/~cmcclure/patriotact.pdf

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-01-patriot-act_x.htm

www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/24/bush_shuns_patriot_act_requirement/

 

[bekosh]

Re: just another small observation

You can always tell when a liberal has lost the argument. They start comparing George Bush to Hitler. It's kinda sad really. :'(

 

[QC]

Re: just another small observation

Yes bekosh . . . a wonderfully lazy tactic. The funny thing is they also compare him to Chavez and his rejection of capitalism simultaneously. The funniest part is they don't even see the laughable inconsistency.

WBW,

I read most of that Wikipedia article. I generally like Wikipedia as it gets decent attention from many sides of an issue. What I find most revealing is nobody can agree on what a neocon is, which is why I asked you to tell me in the first place. I assume I was lumped in with your neos, and 17 percenters and rush listeners etc. Personally, I think most of us that posts regularly on this board defy simple definitions/labels. I do not listen to Rush, I do not blindly follow anybody that you have noted or railed against, and I still don't see what freedoms have been taken from me all by my ownself. Maybe you need to allow treebuddy free rein, because your combined efforts have not cleared up anything for me.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: just another small observation

Is that the best you got Bekosh? Aw c'mon. You can do better than that.

QC, you're obviously beyond help.

Scarey thing is that Hitler, Chavez, and Bush are all Facists. Their Enabling Acts are proof. They all use(d) Fear to gain power, and they all use(d) Fear to maintain power.

 

[QC]

Re: just another small observation

QC, you're obviously beyond help.

LMAO, thank God we've at least established that . . . 8)

 

[DJ]

Re: just another small observation

WbW,

you wrote:

QC, you're obviously beyond help.

Scarey thing is that Hitler, Chavez, and Bush are all Facists. Their Enabling Acts are proof. They all use(d) Fear to gain power, and they all use(d) Fear to maintain power.

Fear has brought us NOT ONE terrorist attack since the "alleged" attacks at the WTC , Pentagon and PA.

By the way, a quick study of the founding documents allows three branches of government: Legislative (make laws). Judicial (interpret laws), Executive (Commander in Cheif). Exec. can only declare law.

In a "new age", the judicial has seen fit to become all three, with the populace asleep.

Our current Exec. did not command Marshall law or declare law. The "doves" in congeress are changing colors-I guess spring is coming. Those once for, are now against. That's a "turncoat" in my book. Hillary is the prime example.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: just another small observation

WbW,

you wrote:

QC, you're obviously beyond help.

Scarey thing is that Hitler, Chavez, and Bush are all Facists. Their Enabling Acts are proof. They all use(d) Fear to gain power, and they all use(d) Fear to maintain power.

Fear has brought us NOT ONE terrorist attack since the "alleged" attacks at the WTC , Pentagon and PA.

By the way, a quick study of the founding documents allows three branches of government: Legislative (make laws). Judicial (interpret laws), Executive (Commander in Cheif). Exec. can only declare law.

In a "new age", the judicial has seen fit to become all three, with the populace asleep.

Our current Exec. did not command Marshall law or declare law. The "doves" in congeress are changing colors-I guess spring is coming. Those once for, are now against. That's a "turncoat" in my book. Hillary is the prime example.

Very good DWJ! Glad I didn't get into this one. Fun to watch and learn, (guess it's called lurkin')JR8)8)

 

[rodbolt]

Re: just another small observation

KaGee
the constitution of VE is almost Identical to ours as is the setup of govt branches.
problem is under the Guise of NATIONAL security it seems all 3 branches have ceeded power to 1 person, they seem to be well paid for it but they did it.
so could it happen here? yep.
did it happen there? most definatly.
you posters that post with no actual fact nor checking history beyond spin are lame.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: just another small observation

KaGee
the constitution of VE is almost Identical to ours as is the setup of govt branches.
problem is under the Guise of NATIONAL security it seems all 3 branches have ceeded power to 1 person, they seem to be well paid for it but they did it.
so could it happen here? yep.
did it happen there? most definatly.
you posters that post with no actual fact nor checking history beyond spin are lame.

Calm down now Rodbolt. You may "fact check" and do lots o' homework, an' come to completely different conclusions then someone else who did jus' as much o' that stuff as you did. Bias does have an impact. Sometimes when your in the forest: ya can't see the trees. VE is a 2nd rate country and the USA is the best there's ever been!!! I don't buy your analogies here, (at all, in any way), my man. Hope that doesn't make me "lame" or stupid in all, but if that's how ya feel go ahead an' feel that way. Respectfully JR

 

[crunch]

Re: just another small observation

so could it happen here? yep.
did it happen there? most definatly.
you posters that post with no actual fact nor checking history beyond spin are lame.

Want to point out all these facts Rod? Want to show where our 3 branches of Government have ceded their power to just one person? Aren't you spinning your hate for this Government by that lame, undocumented post?

 

[Plainsman]

Re: just another small observation

Is that the best you got Bekosh? Aw c'mon. You can do better than that.

QC, you're obviously beyond help.

Scarey thing is that Hitler, Chavez, and Bush are all Facists. Their Enabling Acts are proof. They all use(d) Fear to gain power, and they all use(d) Fear to maintain power.

So now President Bush is a facist? I believe the other 2 have/had no term limit. Guess the President will have all you socialists/communists locked up/tortured in the next 2 years. Better run for the hills!! We all know that the dems are good at that.

What happened to the USA, it used to be "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" now it's "When the going gets tough, we give up" or "When the going gets tough, it all W's fault" or maybe "When the going gets tough, listen to the dems spin, we don't have any answers, but were not W"

But I hope the demagouges keep posting, I had a tough day at work and need to laugh some more d

 

[Plainsman]

Re: just another small observation

You can always tell when a liberal has lost the argument. They start comparing George Bush to Hitler. It's kinda sad really. :'(

I think it's funny, how sad their postions really are.