Just replaced points need help

sammons

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Jul 22, 2007
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Hello, I am replacing the points on my 1970 40Hp Evinrude, I need help, have never done this before so any information that could be given to me would be appreciated.

Thanks
 

F_R

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Re: Just replaced points need help

So, how far along with it are you, and what do you need help with?
 

sammons

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Re: Just replaced points need help

I got the new points on finally, now I need to know what the gap should be and where does the key on the flywheel need to be set in a certain spot to set the gap in the points? Sorry new at this just bought and is my first boat so dont know to much.
 

Xcusme

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Re: Just replaced points need help

Simple procedure really....rotate the crankshaft until the crankshaft key way is aligned with the rub block on the points. (part that contacts the points cam (with TOP stamped on it)). Adjust point set for .020 gap.
Rotate crankshaft 180 degrees to adjust the other point set. Again, align the key way to the rub block and set point gap to .020. That's it.
 

F_R

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Re: Just replaced points need help

Important: When you put it back together, the flywheel and shaft tapers must be clean and dry, and you must use a torque wrench to tighten the nut to 100-105 ft/lbs. Ignore this advice and you just may destroy your motor.
 

sammons

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Re: Just replaced points need help

Thanks for all your information it has been appreciated!
 

lexkyboater

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Re: Just replaced points need help

I have a question on this. Do you need to set the timing to be more exact, so the points open and the plugs fire exactly when they should, like the guy does in this article - http://outboard-boat-motor-repair.c... 5.5 HP 1954-1964 Ignition System Tune-up.htm, under the section "A simple but effective method to test the ignition timing?" I'm guessing there are timing marks on a 1970 40 HP flywheel?

When I initially set my gap to .020 on my 71 Johnson 9.5 HP, the gap was not wide enough, and points were opening a good 1/2 inch past the timing mark.
 

tmcalavy

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Re: Just replaced points need help

So how did it run with the points set like that? That's a good reference article. You can certainly do it that way as long as the armature plate has the timing marks he mentions. If not, look for the word TOP or a small arrow on top of the crankshaft. Align the word or the tip of the arrow with the points rub block, by turning the crankshaft...that's when/where the points should open to the mfg'ers recommended point gap. Be sure the points don't move/slip when you tighten down the lock nut/screw. Rotate the crankshaft to the other points rub block and do the same. Unless you just want to mess with the ohm-meter, etc.
 

lexkyboater

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Re: Just replaced points need help

My engine has both "top" marked on the cam lobe and timing marks. When I first installed the points I tried setting them to .020 where it's labeled "top" on my cam lobe, and made sure they didn't open more than .020. I checked it again after tightening everything down, which took several tries. I was still 1/2 inch late on the plug firing. How did it run? About the same, which is badly. I'm still working on a problem with it not revving out, in another thread. That might be a good test on a good running engine, but it would probably be hard to tell with a seat-of-the-pants test. I know on automotive, timing is everything, and would assume that firing late means you're not getting optimal horsepower.
 

iwombat

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Re: Just replaced points need help

On automotive timing is everything because you've got automatically advanced timing and manually advancing the throttle. In outboards, you're manually advancing the timing and automatically advancing the throttle. That's why carb syncing is everything in outboards.

On my old bikes you manually advance both throttle and timing separately. Tune-ups are much easier :)
 

lexkyboater

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Re: Just replaced points need help

Okay - don't leave us hanging! Is firing late on an outboard important - is it critical to make sure those points open when the timing mark says they should?
 

iwombat

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Re: Just replaced points need help

I still don't understand this bit about firing late. They're going to open when the cam says open. You need to set the timing advance stops at both ends (low and high) and between it's manually adjusted by the throttle position (which really is a manual timing advance and not a throttle).
 

lexkyboater

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Re: Just replaced points need help

I guess I'm asking. The guy at http://outboard-boat-motor-repair.c... 5.5 HP 1954-1964 Ignition System Tune-up.htm says "If you want your motor to run well, your points must be installed, set, and tested to be sure that they open and close at precisely the right time. This determines when your spark plugs will fire, setting off the combustion within your cylinders."

I would think you'd want to initially set the static timing according to the marks on the flywheel, as that's just the starting point for when the plugs fire. When you twist the throttle, the timing of the plugs firing changes as the magneto base rotates, causing the plugs to fire earlier as you twist the throttle.

I'm not sure I understand how to set the "timing advance stops at both ends", unless you're talking about the screw on the end of the butterfly on the carb. I thought that's the only screw you adjust to do a link and sync? Attached pic with arrow pointing to the screw. Or is there another way to adjust the timing other than setting the points? There's two different types of timing you're referring to - fire and carb - and that's what the link and sync is for - to make sure the butterfly on the carb opens at the proper time when you manually advance the timing as you turn the throttle.
 

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iwombat

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Re: Just replaced points need help

Over-simplifying here quite a bit for clarity . . .


Some engines, but not all, have both a minimum advance stop and a max advance stop. Your 9.5 only has the min stop and is implemented by the throttle stop adjuster on the tiller handle. Other engines have the stops directly under the timing plate, or on the throttle linkage at the motor. In a mechanical breaker-type ignition, spark happens only when the points break. Rotating the timing plate via the throttle changes when this happens relative to TDC. The only thing you really have to get precise is the gap. The throttle handle will make the timing advance change manually as you rotate it. This all relates to the _ignition_ advance.

Note: the "throttle" only directly manipulates the timing relative to TDC which is why it's really an advance control and not a throttle. More on this in the following:

Now, the butterflies on the carb are mechanically coupled to the ignition advancement mechanisms, but there is no means for you to directly manipulate them. They are secondarily controlled via the throttle advance cam.

In this system, the timing is always dead-on exact. After all, you manually put it where you want it to be. It's the carb butterflies that may be out of sync with the timing advance.


What about those points?
The gap of the points controls two things.
1) The relationship between where the cam-follower is on the cam and the point at where the coils discharge.
2) The amount of time the coils continue to charge up after discharging via the spark plugs but before closing (the difference between the opening and the closing).

The critical thing for your outboard is #2. After the coils charge up and fire they continue to build up current in the windings which really really wants to discharge via the point gap. They need to close before this gets great enough to jump the gap and toast the points. The condensers help, but can only service the demand for so long.
 

iwombat

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Re: Just replaced points need help

So, I went through and read the article and here's what may be confusing you. He's making sure that the timing is referenced to the timing mark properly so you can then sync your carb properly. The gap can change that as per "
what about those points #1" above. It really isn't as critical as all that. Does anyone really sync the carbs down to the sub-milimeter?

Set your points to .020 on the high point of the cam. Then take out the .022 and make sure you can't make it fit by rotating the plate a little.

Button it all back up and feel good about yourself.
 

lexkyboater

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Re: Just replaced points need help

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I didn't understand that about the closing of the points and jumping the gap held off by the condensor. Also thought this had everything to do with the ignition timing, not the carb timing. Your info helps undertand it better. Sounds like you *could* set the points by that article, but not necessary. I guess I was just researching because my motor is still running bad, before replacing everything, and thought this might be an issue. Like I said, it didn't seem to make a difference on my engine...

Sorry to Sammons for hijacking your thread :rolleyes: but hopefully that explanation was pertinent...
 

iwombat

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Re: Just replaced points need help

Ringing is a tough concept to understand if you're not familiar with high-voltage electrical oscillators and AC impedance - don't fret it. The math isn't for the feint of heart either. The key takeaway is don't set your points with too high a gap or you'll get unwanted arcing and burned points.

If you want to dial in your ignition and carbs right to the nuts, that article is a good one. Those techniques might make the difference between a good running engine and a great running engine, but not poor running to good running. Set your points statically and you'll be just fine. 2-stroke outboards have a lot of tolerance built in.
 

sammons

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Jul 22, 2007
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Re: Just replaced points need help

Thanks to all set the points to .020 and sice I had flyweel off replaced both coils and wires motor fired right up and runs smoother than ever. :)
 

iwombat

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Re: Just replaced points need help

In the end, that's all that really matters.

Good going.
 
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