Lawn Mower HP Settlement

[xxxflhrci]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

Yeah, "seem to" can be overrated, too...

 

[scipper77]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

Well what's important in my old 14 hp vs new 20 hp observation is "Garden tractor" vs. "Lawn tractor".

A garden tractor is designed for ground engaging equipment like plows and tillers and has a pto for accessories like a snow thrower.

A lawn tractor is not built to do anything more than mow a lawn and pull a cart.

So to repeat myself:
I have often wondered how is it that an old Garden tractor does just fine with a 14 hp motor but my Lawn tractor needs 20??

 

[skargo]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

It's all about the torque anyway.

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

It's all about the torque anyway.

EXACTLY.

Torque is what make's the world go around.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

So to repeat myself:
I have often wondered how is it that an old Garden tractor does just fine with a 14 hp motor but my Lawn tractor needs 20??

So to repeat Myself, is your new "garden tractor" equipped with a hydrostatic drive? If so, it needs the extra HP. And Skargo is right, again. Torque is where it's at, and everyone today (car manufacturers , especially) seems to be making high revving, high HP motors, with less low end torque. I suspect lawnmowers are no different.

 

[skargo]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

I have a 17.5 hp lawn tractor. I have a 30hp "real" tractor AKA CUT. It's a diesel and it has GOBS more power than my lawn tractor.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

So to repeat Myself, is your new "garden tractor" equipped with a hydrostatic drive? If so, it needs the extra HP. And Skargo is right, again. Torque is where it's at, and everyone today (car manufacturers , especially) seems to be making high revving, high HP motors, with less low end torque. I suspect lawnmowers are no different.

Yes It has a hydrostatic drive. Lots of obsticals in my yard so I wanted to be able to change speed on the fly, of course the trade off is that I can't abuse the tranny like I could a geared transmission.

The motor feels like it is way more powerful than the frame could handle. My neighbor has a lawn roller (Probably like #400's) and I'm on the fence whether I should roll out my 1/2+ acre. I know I've got the power but I really don't want to risk the transmission and frame.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

Yes It has a hydrostatic drive...

Then that is absolutely the reason it "needs" 20 hp. Hydrostatic pumps take a lot of power to turn, and "rob" a lot of power from the engine. Their advantages are what you describe, howere, and they are used in A LOT of applications (combines to skid steers for example).

 

[mscher]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

So to repeat myself:
I have often wondered how is it that an old Garden tractor does just fine with a 14 hp motor but my Lawn tractor needs 20??

Some older tractors had manual trans gear ratios, that could do more pulling, with less horspower, than the newer hydros. Mower decks were sometimes smaller and their belts ran directlly off of the engine.

It's likely that the newer "clean burning" engines now required on mowers, are swilling off some engine power/torque as well.

Also, many of us are fatter than we were 30 years ago. It's take horsepower to lug all that lard, around the yard.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

What is the lawsuit actually about? It seems that the newer engines can produce higher horsepower at less than half the size of the older engines. My lawnmower has a sticker on it that says it's 6.5 hp but an engine nearly three times the size on an older lawn tractor is only 10 horsepower.

If they're flat out lying abut horsepower ratings and they refuse to stop then I think they should pay the price. Holy crap guys, if a boat engine manufacturer was knowingly lying about horsepower ratings some people here would be having a cow. Why is it ok for small engine manufacturers to do the same thing?

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

From the court documents...

89. For example, Tecumseh reported to the EPA that its LV195 lawn mower engine produces 3.67 horsepower, yet Tecumseh represented to the consuming public, including to Plaintiff, on labels and elsewhere, that the LV195 engine produces 6.75 horsepower. This is an overstatement of approximately 84%.

90. Similarly, Briggs & Stratton reported to the EPA that its Model 125k lawn mower engine produces 3.6 horsepower, yet Briggs & Stratton represented to the consuming public, including Plaintiff, that its Model 125k engine produces 6.75 horsepower. This is an overstatement of about 88%.

Sooooo, how much power do these engines actually make.........

 

[scipper77]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

From the court documents...

89. For example, Tecumseh reported to the EPA that its LV195 lawn mower engine produces 3.67 horsepower, yet Tecumseh represented to the consuming public, including to Plaintiff, on labels and elsewhere, that the LV195 engine produces 6.75 horsepower. This is an overstatement of approximately 84%.

90. Similarly, Briggs & Stratton reported to the EPA that its Model 125k lawn mower engine produces 3.6 horsepower, yet Briggs & Stratton represented to the consuming public, including Plaintiff, that its Model 125k engine produces 6.75 horsepower. This is an overstatement of about 88%.

Sooooo, how much power do these engines actually make.........

Sounds like there bending the truth on both ends. There is probably some epa advantage to having a lower output motor, and the only number that most Americans understand is HP. Torque means nothing to most.

Not to start a controversy but if an engine is designed to run at it's peak RPM range continuously, is peak HP the whole story?? I've always considered the torque "curve" to be the most important thing for auto's. But in cars you need power across a wide range of RPM's.

I guess if you bog down the motor with a heavy load you want high torque, not (regular torque * high RPM's) = high HP.

Look at the mazda RX-8 (or RX-7). It puts out incredible HP for a 1.3 liter engine because it spins very high RPM's.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

It just seems to me that a lawsuit must have had some perceived merit for someone to pursue the action. By the same token, such a large discrepency in ratings by multiple manufacturers is likely a result of other factors.

If the horsepower ratings are so far off - there must have been a more detailed chain of events to lead to that type of advertising. Has it become an industry standard? Does the lawsuit only target US manufacturers because you can't reach the other ones?

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

There ought to be a law that makes the Lawyers disclose what they are getting out of the suit when they solicit you to become a party to it. It is probably buried in fine print somewhere.

There are Lawyers who specialize in finding issues for Class Action suits. They get rich off the schemes while the plaintiffs get pennies.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

Being off by that much surely something is going on.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

There ought to be a law that makes the Lawyers disclose what they are getting out of the suit when they solicit you to become a party to it. It is probably buried in fine print somewhere.

There are Lawyers who specialize in finding issues for Class Action suits. They get rich off the schemes while the plaintiffs get pennies.

I got a check for $27, the letter said it was a settlement for a class action against an internet service provider, I have no idea what it was for, I tore it up. I have no interest in being part of this problem.

Maybe these lawsuits will slow down when all the manufacturing has been driven off to china.

Theres a new disease, affluenza.

 

[apache61]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

I just threw it away today!Motor runs fine.

Same here

 

[Link]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

There is an old saying:

Two men argued over the ownership of a cow. While one man pulled on the head, the other pulled on the tail, and a lawyer sat down between them and milked it dry

Thats says it all !

 

[moonfish]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

There ought to be a law that makes the Lawyers disclose what they are getting out of the suit when they solicit you to become a party to it. It is probably buried in fine print somewhere.

There are Lawyers who specialize in finding issues for Class Action suits. They get rich off the schemes while the plaintiffs get pennies.

Yo. If the issue has been corrected, don't feed the lawyers. This isn't Good Will Hunting.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Lawn Mower HP Settlement

I'm noticing the new mowers have either a torque rating or list the engine displacement. So why did the manufacturers decide to start fudging on the horsepower ratings?

Can we assume that the ASME, SAE, or other standards have changed as well?

Also, can we please agree that earthquakes, famine, and hemmarroids are all caused by lawyers and close that part of the discussion?