Laws For the rich and the rest of us

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DayCruiser

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A business software company owner in Greenville SC was speeding down a road at 90mph in a 35 mph zone. He leaves the road and travels through a field the length of a football field. Goes off an embankment and flies threw this mans nice home and kills him. Now this guy already has been issued 20 something traffic tickets in the past. He gets probation/community service for this mishap. He also settles with the mans family for a few million$. The mans family doesn't even speak up at sentencing. Police don't even bother to check for alcohol or drugs at the accident scene. Saying they didn't smell anything. He was coming from a wedding reception. The mans attorney said he was trying to avoid hitting a deer. Which really doesn't explain speeding through that field(or speeding at all). So do you think justice was served?:
 

ziggy

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

So do you think justice was served?
no !


ahhhh, the power of money..... we're in trouble i think.. and it ain't gonna be pretty getting out of trouble either.. imho...

i'd say more, but surely would get this tread locked of gone for violation of iboats rules...
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

I don't know, because I don't know the rest of the facts. Can you post links to news articles?



???
 

JB

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

I don't think justice can be served with only half of the story.
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

Why do think that is not the whole story?

Here is the link:

http://www.wyff4.com/news/21626728/detail.html

GREENVILLE, S.C. -- The man who slammed his Maserati through a home, killing the man inside, entered a guilty plea -- and ended up with no jail time.


John Ludwig Jr. pleaded guilty Monday morning to reckless homicide. Because of the guilty plea, a murder charge against him was dropped.

The somber-faced Greenville entrepreneur had nothing to say as he walked into the courtroom. He sat down next to his attorney, Billy Wilkins, and kept his hands clasped together. Ludwig's parents and sister were in court.

Ludwig was charged with murder and reckless homicide in the car crash on April 25 that killed 62-year-old Bill Bardsley.

Investigators said Ludwig was speeding when he crashed his Maserati through the back of Bardsley's house, coming to rest in the front yard.

Bardsley family attorney Pete Roe said, "Bill Bardsley was a loving and devoted husband, father, son and brother. Personally and professionally, Bill was highly respected and blessed with many friends who knew him as a gentle and kind man. The depth of our loss is immeasurable and beyond full expression."

Thirteenth Circuit Solicitor Bob Ariail tried to explain why it took a while to file charges. Ariail said there were conflicting reports from neighbors about who was driving, but subsequent DNA analysis showed only Ludwig was in car when it crashed.

Slideshows:
From Scene Of Crash
John Ludwig Arrest Timeline

Ariail showed a photo of the road where the accident happened. He said William McKibbon, who was at the scene of the wreck, told investigators that he and Ludwig had left a wedding reception in separate cars.

McKibbon told investigators that Ludwig passed him on the left and then went off the right side of road. McKibbon said they were going about 50 to 60 mph. Arial said this happened in a no-passing zone where speed limit is 35 mph.

Troopers said that Ludwig was driving at least 85 mph, possibly faster.

Ariail said, "He could not drive legally at this speed anywhere in the country."

"There are only four years since 1992 that he has either not been cited for speeding and convicted or cited for being at fault in another collision," he said.

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Ariail said, "He was passing his friend, Mr. McKibbon. There was not emergency. There was no baby being born in the back of the car. There was nobody having a heart attack that needed to get to the hospital. It could only be concluded that Mr. Ludwig was showing off to himself and to his friend in his car. He was showing out and as a result, putting everybody else on that highway -- everybody else in that neighborhood at risk."

Ariail showed photos of the Bardsley home, which was partially destroyed by the wreck. Ariail said that Ludwig claimed he tried to avoid deer, but McKibbon told investigators he never saw deer.

Wilkins said Ludwig did a "foolish thing" by speeding. But he maintained that Ludwig saw two deer and just because McKibbon didn't see them, it doesn't mean they weren't there.

Wilkins said that there was problem with front suspension system on Ludwig's car that the Maserati dealer knew about, but had said car was still OK to drive.

Ariail said Ludwig had 24 traffic violations since 1992. He said Ludwig is considered among most egregious offenders because of his driving record and that he deserves the maximum sentence.

Wilkins said Ludwig may have been bouncing up and down and inadvertently stepping on accelerator, but that Ludwig couldn't say for sure that's what happened.

"Alcohol and drugs played no role in this wreck," Wilkins said.

Supporters Plead For Mercy In Sentencing

During the pre-sentencing testimony, Sheriff Gerald Lawson, of Lincoln County, Ga., said he has known Ludwig most of his life and that Ludwig has always been a good citizen.

Wilkins said Ludwig worked at cafeteria and was a janitor while at Furman on scholarship. He said some of Ludwig's speeding tickets came from when Ludwig was working as traveling salesman.

Wilkins said when Ludwig started making lots of money, he wanted to give back. He talked about Ludwig taking care of his parents, building a place for his wheelchair-bound sister and other good deeds.

Judge James C. Williams Jr. listened to testimony from people who said Ludwig is charitable, a great businessman, good worker and good father.

A Presbyterian minister said he counseled Ludwig after crash and told the judge that Ludwig would be better off not being incarcerated.

Ludwig was red-faced and teary-eyed as his mother described in a quiet what a good son he is.

Ludwig's high school football coach said that Ludwig was a hard worker and hopes his own son turns out as well as John.

After the plea and prior to sentencing, Ludwig said, "I want to say I'm deeply sorry. I take full responsibility for my actions. I want to extend my deepest sympathies to the Bardsley family."

Ludwig's attorney offered to buy the Bardsley's house after hearing from the widow that she couldn't bring herself to move back in after it was repaired.

Wilkins said the Bardsley family just wants Ludwig made accountable, but he said they were not calling for incarceration. Wilkins said he thought home confinement with community service is the appropriate sentence.

Judge Williams said, "These cases are not about trying to replace the victim."

Williams said Ludwig's driving record was bad, but was a far cry from others he has seen.

Williams said, "All in all, the circumstances of the accident are tragic and could not have been any more tragic or horrifying to the Bardsley family. It was an accident -- a terrible and horrifying accident."

"I'm not moved particularly or influenced by the amount of money Mr. Ludwig may have made during his lifetime. I am moved and influenced by what he's done with it. You would expect a man to take care of his family, but it's evident to me that he's very unselfish in sharing what he has accomplished with others and that fact has probably influences me more than anything else in the sentence I'm about to impose," he said.

Williams gave Ludwig a five-year sentence suspended to three years probation, and 500 hours of community service.

After the sentencing, Ariail released a statement saying: "The state made as compelling and informative a presentation to the court as possible offering all admissible evidence. We strongly believed, as an advocate, that Mr. Ludwig deserved an active prison sentence and urged the judge to impose the maximum 10-year sentence.?

"We were shocked at the sentence imposed. However, Retired Judge James Williams, who was specifically appointed by the Chief Justice to handle this case, is ultimately responsible for determining the proper punishment.

"He considered everything we presented and made his decision, and I have no doubt he fairly and thoroughly considered the evidence and imposed the sentence he felt was correct."

Thirteenth Circuit Public Defender John Mauldin said, "I have all the respect in the world for the victim and his family and what they have gone through, as well as respect for the court and our court system. That being said, as the circuit public defender, I represent poor people.?

"I believe that poor people have the right to be surprised, to complain and to question the handling of this case. There is an appearance that the type of justice that people get is different for rich and powerful people than it is for poor and disenfranchised people. It is critical that people have confidence in our system and that justice be equal."

Ludwig Charged In Bill Bardsley's Death

A week-and-a-half after the wreck, Ludwig was charged with murder. Months later, a grand jury indicted Ludwig on an additional charge of reckless homicide.

A former prosecutor told WYFF that the charge of reckless homicide is based on an unintentional death, while murder implies malice.

[Ludwig's attorney Billy Wilkins]
Ludwig's attorney Billy Wilkins
The solicitor's office had planned to try Ludwig on both charges at the same time.

Reckless homicide had a possible sentence of up to 10 years in prison. A murder conviction would have carried a sentence of 30 years to life.

Wilkins said, "The statement the attorneys read did not ask for a prison term. It said merely they expected the justice system to hold John Ludwig accountable. And that is what happened today. He was held accountable."

There are no civil actions pending in the case. Wilkins said they were previously resolved and Ludwig has continued to cooperate with attorneys.

Prosecutors did say that the expect Ludwig to stand trial for a prior burglary charge.
 

JB

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

Okay, now that I have more of the story (I still don't believe I have the WHOLE story) I think justice was served.
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

Okay, now that I have more of the story (I still don't believe I have the WHOLE story) I think justice was served.


Why is that?

HP says the man was reckless driving. There are no signs he ever pressed the brakes. He then recklessly speeds through a field as long as a football field. He could have stopped at ANY time and walked the area. But Noooooooooooo, he continues to speed through the field. He then goes off a cliff and flies through the air killing a man who was sitting in his own home. It is not like he went off the road and instantly went through the home. He traveled quite a distance after leaving the road
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

Oh btw, JB, you would be in the minority around here. There is quite a bit of outrage for slap on the wrist he got.
Others have gotten jail time for wreck less homicide
 

eaglejim

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

If it was me they would have me under the jail,but as I have seen around my neck of the woods the police are a small business and they make their money on tickets,bonds,and fines(and other stuff I don't know about) so you got to ask yourself where will this guy make you money? They know the percentages that he will screw up again and will pay more money,where in jail it cost money to keep him nice and comfy it sad but true:mad:
 

JB

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

You asked what I think. I told you. Sorry if you don't like it. I don't like what you think, so we are even.

Peace?
 
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lowkee

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

They should simply ask the victim what he wants for justice. Oh yeah, he's DEAD. But at least the victim was only an average citizen, otherwise it would have been a tragedy! :rolleyes:

All in all, I think this ruling represents how I want the justice system to operate. Now, before your head explodes from that statement, read on...

I think the victims should always have the last say as to sentencing. If a victim doesn't wish prison on a perpetrator, that person should not go to prison. Victims deserve the right to decide what they consider proper punishments for crimes against them, not third parties. With that said, victims of felonies should also be able to impose any punishment they see fit, not just a lessor one. In the short term, this may likely lead to mass life/death sentences for seemingly minor victim-based crimes, but over the long term, a status quo would become dominant as people would expect reciprical leaniancy for crimes they commit. In time, people would tend to be more tolerant of victim based crimes, while still understanding the singular nature of each crime, as any felony crime could lead to a life/death sentence. In effect, it would convert the justice system into a free market, where the limits are chosen by the parties involved and noone else.

With all of that said, yes there are caviats such as the victim dying or the victim being a minor, too young to make a mature decision, so don't go jumping up and down about how overly simplistic the theory is. Would you rather be a victim of a life altering crime and have a rich guy go free without your consent or be able to choose what he gets for a punishment, based on your understanding of the situation? This guy's family decided the man should not be imprisoned and who are we to overrule their wishes? The guy didn't victimize us at all. We should have zero say in it.
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

I realize that in the current mood of the country it is purely evil to be rich and/or successful.

DayCruiser's abundant use of negative adjectives to explain unproven theories and imaginary events is a classic example of demonization.

You asked what I think. I told you. Sorry if you don't like it. I don't like what you think, so we are even.

Peace?

What is imaginary about the victims home being a length of a football field off the road? That is a fact. You see the article where it states the car went in the back of the home and came out the front?. What kind of speed would it take to do that?. I produce the article, and believe me there are many more on this subject, where it states the location of the victims home in relation to the road
I am not poor by any means. The Judge even states what this guy did with his money(in the past) had bearing on the decision. What about the victim? What about punishment for reckless homicide? He was convicted ya know. Is that my imagination too?
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

They should simply ask the victim what he wants for justice. Oh yeah, he's DEAD. But at least the victim was only an average citizen, otherwise it would have been a tragedy! :rolleyes:

All in all, I think this ruling represents how I want the justice system to operate. Now, before your head explodes from that statement, read on...

I think the victims should always have the last say as to sentencing. If a victim doesn't wish prison on a perpetrator, that person should not go to prison. Victims deserve the right to decide what they consider proper punishments for crimes against them, not third parties. With that said, victims of felonies should also be able to impose any punishment they see fit, not just a lessor one. In the short term, this may likely lead to mass life/death sentences for seemingly minor victim-based crimes, but over the long term, a status quo would become dominant as people would expect reciprical leaniancy for crimes they commit. In time, people would tend to be more tolerant of victim based crimes, while still understanding the singular nature of each crime, as any felony crime could lead to a life/death sentence. In effect, it would convert the justice system into a free market, where the limits are chosen by the parties involved and noone else.

With all of that said, yes there are caviats such as the victim dying or the victim being a minor, too young to make a mature decision, so don't go jumping up and down about how overly simplistic the theory is. Would you rather be a victim of a life altering crime and have a rich guy go free without your consent or be able to choose what he gets for a punishment, based on your understanding of the situation? This guy's family decided the man should not be imprisoned and who are we to overrule their wishes? The guy didn't victimize us at all. We should have zero say in it.

The guys family was paid $millions in restitution(by the perpetrators Insurance company) before the trial. Took awhile to try this guy
 

avenger79

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

i would think it just. I hope I would think the same if it were my family member who was killed. The biggest part of my thought is that unlike many who do this he didn't try to get out of it. Yeah he blamed a deer but he did at least walk in and say I'm responsible. many never do that. remember what you used to tell your kids. take responsibility for your actions and the punishment will be much less severe because at least I know you understand what you did was wrong. Hopefully he will learn from his actions.

we had one here, the guy was out on bail for DWI, had no license, was a doctor, and got high and killed a mom and unborn child.

IMO having lots of speeding tickets doesn't make you a killer. you have to know the circumstance of each ticket.
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

i would think it just. I hope I would think the same if it were my family member who was killed. The biggest part of my thought is that unlike many who do this he didn't try to get out of it. Yeah he blamed a deer but he did at least walk in and say I'm responsible. many never do that. remember what you used to tell your kids. take responsibility for your actions and the punishment will be much less severe because at least I know you understand what you did was wrong. Hopefully he will learn from his actions.

we had one here, the guy was out on bail for DWI, had no license, was a doctor, and got high and killed a mom and unborn child.

IMO having lots of speeding tickets doesn't make you a killer. you have to know the circumstance of each ticket.

So what you are saying is that if I admit to any crime and say I am sorry then there should be little or no punishment?
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

I feel like I have more facts now and had I been the judge, Mr. Mazerati would have done jail time - probably quite a bit of it.

What I wonder the most, is how a guy who has 24 speeding tickets in 17 years, still has a valid license. Part of the explanation will most likely be that he bargained a bunch of them down to non-moving violations in pretrial, but you would think that someone would get the idea, at some point.

As for the light sentence, you can bet that his charity and standing in the community, is the reason why the judge cut him a ton of slack. To me, those things should not have played a part in this decision, because his complete lack of responsibility resulted in loss of life. At some point, even if you are basically a nice guy, you have to answer for the things that you do.



???
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

I agree Jay. Here is another article stating how far he drove after leaving the road:

http://www.wyff4.com/news/19314102/detail.html

GREENVILLE, S.C. -- Solicitor Bob Ariail said Wednesday that his office is closely following the investigation of a fatal crash over the weekend in which law enforcement officers said a Greenville man drove his car through a home, killing a 62-year-old homeowner.

The South Carolina Department of Public Safety said that John G. Ludwig Jr., 36, was behind the wheel of his Maserati sedan when it drove off Roe Ford Road, across several hundred feet of open field, over an embankment and into the Greenville County home.

Fredrick William Bardsley was sitting in his living room watching television at about 9 p.m. Saturday and was killed when Ludwig's car smashed into back the home on War Admiral Way and out the front...............
 

Huron Angler

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

This story is ridiculous...embarassing that this passes for justice. I can't imagine what is missing from the "story" besides the idiot's blood alcohol level and respective jail sentence.

Fines clearly mean nothing just like how Steinbrenner buys world series rings and happily pays whatever the damage is for being over the salary cap. Simply the cost of doing business for unsavory individuals.

Shouldn't his license be suspended by now?!?

Oh...wait...as mentioned, then the fines and fees wouldn't make their way into the coffers of the "authorities"

What a joke.
 

rbh

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

Its not what you know but who you know sometimes.
 

Rocky_Road

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Re: Laws For the rich and the rest of us

Am I the only one to notice the last sentence in the story?

"Prosecutors did say that they expect Ludwig to stand trial for a prior burglary charge."

What did this guy do? Crawl out of his totaled sports car, and start pocketing stuff from the house wreckage?

Oh yeah...it states a "prior" burglary charge. When he is not speeding, he must be a kleptomaniac...!

Bottom line is if the victim's family is all right with the verdict...then so am I.

Happy boating!
 
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