Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

[sculbert]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Vinney I agreee with you in concerns to gear box. As you can see in my first post I expressed the concern of damaging the gearbox if it doesn't get fixed. I just have not ever known of the presure test thought. How much presure or vacum do you put on one. I have a compressor and a vacum pump I can use to test with. We don't all claim to be expert just a group of people with the same love of boats and attempting to help people that are expereincing problems. We can all learn from our mistakes and help others not make the same mistakes. I know this forum has been great for me to get over many hurdles. Like a gimbal bearing froze in because of salt corrosion. That one was a beast. Had to drill it in two to get it out. That came from suggestion on this board. And before you say it yes I had a puller and the right tools. It still wouldn't come out. I guess you didn't have any suggestions for my other post.

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Originally posted by vinney:<br /> I guess your in charged Now. No. I love the new guys Like Our boy anthens He comes out of the box as an expert Look over his first posts then as time goes on. There asking information They learn that they don't know the boat business as much as they think so. My point was Cobra do as search first. I have seen this so many times here. As for you desire Who put you incharge?

First of all, I never claimed to be an expert with the marine gear. I have many many years of experience building engines, and custom EFI tuning. I ask questions about things I don't have experience with (i.e, taking appart the upper for the first time) but offer my help in things I've done a hundred times (i.e, engine internals, swapping carb to efi, etc). <br /><br />Obviously you are an expert, and I should have known that you must have covered this in great detail previously. I must have used the wrong search criteria before posting. <br /><br />-- Joe

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Originally posted by Mercury Blues:<br /> Vinney I agreee with you in concerns to gear box. As you can see in my first post I expressed the concern of damaging the gearbox if it doesn't get fixed. I just have not ever known of the presure test thought. How much presure or vacum do you put on one. I have a compressor and a vacum pump I can use to test with. We don't all claim to be expert just a group of people with the same love of boats and attempting to help people that are expereincing problems. We can all learn from our mistakes and help others not make the same mistakes. I know this forum has been great for me to get over many hurdles. Like a gimbal bearing froze in because of salt corrosion. That one was a beast. Had to drill it in two to get it out. That came from suggestion on this board. And before you say it yes I had a puller and the right tools. It still wouldn't come out. I guess you didn't have any suggestions for my other post.

I'm skeptical on the pressure test. On a rear end, excess pressure (10psi) will blow the pinion seal immediately. I realize these things arn't "rear ends", and it wouldn't be possible to bleed off pressure under water but. Still.<br /><br />Perhaps I need to ditch the seloc manual and pick up a better one. Helms isn't in the boat business eh?<br /><br />-- Joe

 

[vinney]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Thats what I'm talking about If you haven't done something Why are you telling people How to make a repair. The Boat business isn't car business. If Your rear end is leaking in a car/truck there is fluid on the rear end or on the ground. If you gear case is leaking in the water as you drive your boat its going to blow up a gearcase. There is a big difference. If you haven't done the repairs befor sit back and do a search. You theory's from the car business don't always apply to the boat business. You pressure test gear cases If you knew the boat business OR you took some time and researched the business either factory manuals or did a search here YOU would know that. The afte market manuals don't work well. My point is unless You know what your talking about don't give out your theorys Its going to cost someone money and probaly no you. There is a place for knowledge here and discussion. If someone asks a question there not looking for a discussion there looking for the correct answer. I hate to see people here being thown under the bus. I think if you send someone under the bus You should bill for wasting there time. Pressure and vacuum lower units on boats so You don't blown up someone gearcase. I will bring a mercruiser to 12 psi. for 15 min. Vacuum 5 for 10 min.

 

[sculbert]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Thanks for the input Vinney, it is a shame you are beating on someone for asking a question. <br /><br />Remember he was just asking a question. <br /><br /> " I replaced the seals in my upper because it was externally leaking oil into the driveshaft bellows, and then leaked down the shift shaft.<br /><br />I replaced all the seals (and bellows too). But .. it still is leaking. wtf?<br /><br />Anyone have any suggestions?<br /><br />-- Joe " <br /><br />So what if there is a section from somewhere else that speaks to it. It is hard to find somethings sometimes and we are all wanting fixes now not latter.<br /><br /><br />Mercury Blues

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

hello<br /> most times that seal leaks cause the yoke is bad. dont try to monky with seal depths cause its difficult to get it square in the seal carrier. buy a yoke. now to your other leak. if oil can leak from the bellows you have a sealing issue with the drive. double check the gasket and the square oring that you should have glued inside the gimbal housing.<br /> do as vinney says about the pressure/vacum test or you may find yourself pricing drives. you can always cart it down to the dealer for a quick check.<br /> good luck and keep posting<br />PS car rearends cant really be tested as they are normally vented.

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Originally posted by vinney:<br /> Thats what I'm talking about If you haven't done something Why are you telling people How to make a repair. The Boat business isn't car business. If Your rear end is leaking in a car/truck there is fluid on the rear end or on the ground. If you gear case is leaking in the water as you drive your boat its going to blow up a gearcase. There is a big difference. If you haven't done the repairs befor sit back and do a search. You theory's from the car business don't always apply to the boat business. You pressure test gear cases If you knew the boat business OR you took some time and researched the business either factory manuals or did a search here YOU would know that. The afte market manuals don't work well. My point is unless You know what your talking about don't give out your theorys Its going to cost someone money and probaly no you. There is a place for knowledge here and discussion. If someone asks a question there not looking for a discussion there looking for the correct answer. I hate to see people here being thown under the bus. I think if you send someone under the bus You should bill for wasting there time. Pressure and vacuum lower units on boats so You don't blown up someone gearcase. I will bring a mercruiser to 12 psi. for 15 min. Vacuum 5 for 10 min.

I don't know what your problem is, maybe you grew up in the wrong shop.<br /><br />Btw. I'm not giving anyone my theory. I'm explaining what I thought about *my* outdrive. Correction is welcomed, but your attitude is not.<br /><br />Sit down, have a beer, and enjoy the 4th.

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> hello<br /> most times that seal leaks cause the yoke is bad. dont try to monky with seal depths cause its difficult to get it square in the seal carrier. buy a yoke. now to your other leak. if oil can leak from the bellows you have a sealing issue with the drive. double check the gasket and the square oring that you should have glued inside the gimbal housing.<br /> do as vinney says about the pressure/vacum test or you may find yourself pricing drives. you can always cart it down to the dealer for a quick check.<br /> good luck and keep posting<br />PS car rearends cant really be tested as they are normally vented.

Thanks for the respose. Bad yoke eh? I'll pick one up tuesday. <br /><br />I glued that spongey seal inside the gimbal housing, using bellows glue. Bad idea? Good idea?<br /><br />I let it set for like. 30 mins prior to putting the outdrive on. For it to leak past that, that spongey seal would have to be bad (or tear on install), or maybe the retainer is not true anymore?<br /><br />I hope my theory doesn't upset anyone.<br /><br />I put new o-rings on the shaft too, of course.<br /><br />Thanks again<br /><br />-- Joe

 

[achris]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Boy, you guys have really added to this thread while I was asleep. <br /><br />Some of the things I do are:<br /><br />Glue the 'big spongy' seal in with bellows adhesive (as per the Merc service manual).<br /><br />Pressure and vac testing. I test the 2 halves seperately. Can be a bit of a b**** to seal the oil passage between the halves at times, but I do it. Pressure to 12 psi, hold for 15 minutes, minimum. Vac to 16 inches, hold for 15 minutes, minmum. <br /><br />Setting the yoke seal 20 thou recessed is easy. You get a short piece of steel flat bar (2"x 1/4") and file 1" of it to the desired recess depth. Then use this as the final installation tool. I've done lots this way and you get another 8-10 years life out of the yoke.<br /><br /><br />Chris........

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Chris, what are ya doing sleeping during the day? Midday matinee?

 

[achris]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

DURING THE DAY!!! It may be 11.30 where you are, but it's only 9.30 here, and I look at the Merc outboard page before I come here.<br /><br />THANKS ALDO!!!! (not!)<br /><br />Chris.............

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Chris, just testing to see if your awake <br /><br />I agree with vinney, your boats a classic and still fetching good money. I missed out on a 20' bertram 3 years ago - wasn't quick enough.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[achris]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

HI guys,<br /><br />Back to the origianl post by anesthes. Are you sure it's gear oil on the shift shaft? If it's come down the exhaust system it could be engine oil. <br /><br />Something else to think about.....<br /><br />Chris...........<br /><br />Aldo, sorry you missed out on the B20. They really are nice in a sea....

 

[sculbert]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

I thought anethes was talking about the shift shaft in the outdrive. But it could still be possible to come form the back of the engine and work its way all the way to the outdrive and leak down. It sure would be a horindeous mess in there though.

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Hello,<br /><br />Yeah I'm sure. Its the blueish colored MERC perf gear oil. <br /><br />If I put the drive all the way up, it leaks out and falls on top of where the shift shaft is. I'm assuming it has to be coming from inside the gimbal area, and leaking out of the drive shaft. <br /><br />I pulled it apart 2 weeks ago because it was leaking into the bellows, which exposed atear in the driveshaft bellow. Replaced all of them, took the upper apart, and replaced the oil seal and o-ring. So I'm assuming its leaking from the same place. <br /><br />I've got another upper and lower on my bench i'm gonna go study for a half hour but I'm pretty sure thats the only place gear lube can come out of the upper right, through that seal?<br /><br /><br />-- Joe

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Yanked the drive today. Coming out of the only seal I didnt replace in the upper. Oh well. Guess I gotta split the halfs now. The bellows didnt have anything in them (oil or water) and the yoke seal seems to be holding fine. woohoo.<br /><br />Guess with some new seals it should be operational tomorrow.<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />-- Joe

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

 

[achris]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Hi Joe,<br /><br />My next suggestion was going to be the bottom seal in the top box. It can leak down the driveshaft, pool at the bottom and appear to be leaking from the shift shaft. You are aware there are 2 seals there. If the driveshaft has an 'o' ring at the top, don't put one on. All it does is hold the bottom seal open and allow water into the splines.<br /><br />Well spotted,<br /><br />Chris.............

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Looks like the seal will come out the bottom with a small pry bar w/out having to take the gears out, huh?<br /><br />-- Joe

 

[anesthes]

Re: Leaking outdrive seals, replaced.

Originally posted by achris:<br /> Hi Joe,<br /><br />My next suggestion was going to be the bottom seal in the top box. It can leak down the driveshaft, pool at the bottom and appear to be leaking from the shift shaft. You are aware there are 2 seals there. If the driveshaft has an 'o' ring at the top, don't put one on. All it does is hold the bottom seal open and allow water into the splines.<br /><br />Well spotted,<br /><br />Chris.............

Hi Chris,<br /><br />Yep it was the bottom seal for sure. Verrified it by pressurizing the outdrive. <br /><br />The O-ring goes on the shaft on install. I replaced that when I did the water pump. Are you saying don't replace it, or don't add a second one? What I didnt replace is the seal that stays in the upper. I'm thinking if I split the units, I can pry it out and hit a new one into the upper right? Looks like it goes in from the bottom, not the top?<br /><br />-- Joe