Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

[erikgreen]

Hi all;

My city inspectors (of Brooklyn Park, MN) are being jerks. No surprise, I know. They've sent me notices for having everything from a full to overflowing garbage can (it was garbage day) to having a few boards in my driveway (I had used them as pads so my driveway didn't get holes on hot days).

The latest thing is that they say I must remove all three of my boats from the property, since they are not registered in my name. Very briefly, one of the boats I got for parts and will be junking once I get the cash for the landfill fee, one I will junk or sink since it would take too long to finish repairs, and one is my useable boat that I just got onto the water a couple weeks back.

The actual city ordnance they quote reads as follows:

(B) Vocations and avocations in residential districts. (1) Repair services. Repair services are limited to those appliances or other goods small enough to be carried by one person. Motor and recreational vehicles and equipment and small engine repair are not permitted except for minor emergency repairs and minor maintenance to autos, non-commercial trucks, or recreational vehicles and equipment that are licensed to residents of the property, provided they can be completed within a 24-hour period or are conducted inside a garage or accessory structure and are in compliance with the City Code. Vehicle painting will not be permitted in residential districts.



They believe this says that to work on my boats, I must register them in my name, work on them in the garage, and I cannot do anything except minor maintenance or emergency repairs. They've already assessed a $150 fine.

The boats don't fit in the garage. I may be able to make one of them fit inside, which is my plan for winter storage (I'll have to remove the windshield).

I hadn't licensed my working boat since when I bought it the license was paid through '08. According to the rest of the city code, boats are not considered vehicles, but rather are recreational equipment.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do on this? Is this sort of thing common? It's the city regulating this stuff, not a home association or anything else.


I suspect I'm stuck, and I'm upset at the prospect of having to move or spend many thousands of dollars to expand my garage so I can keep working on boats. I could always argue that my repairs are minor, and that I'm carrying out a series of individual repairs, which would follow the letter of the code, and I don't think they'd take me to court for it.

Anyone here from MN have similar problems?

Stupid question: Don't I have a right to work on my boats in my yard provided I don't violate pollution, noise, or parking laws?

Erik

PS: I know internet legal advice is worth what you pay for it, but I do want to know what you guys think.

 

[EricR]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

This is not an uncommon problem, I see it on the automotive boards all the time.

I am sure there are some sort of un registered vehicle ordinances in my city limits, but I have a deep lot and my back yard is fenced in with a 6' privacy fence, so no inspectors have gone back there.

Really, you are faced with having to move the boats elsewhere to do this. It is a pain, but you are not going to be able to change a city ordinance. A lot of time folks are not aware of them when they move into a place, or new laws are passed.

Really the intent of this sort of thing (usually referred to as a "covenant") is to prevent someone making their place look like a dump and bringing down property values. Unfortunately hobbiests like ourselves get in trouble for it.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

I live in Minnesota and you must have missed Joe's radio show (Garage Logic) in which Minnesota is referred to as the state where absolutely nothing is allowed. To be serious, I just returned from a two week road trip through nine states and probably the absolute worst two states for having an abundance of inoperable vehicles around ones property are Nebraska and Colorado. To answer your question, every city has ordinances that limit what you can and cannot do on your property -- some are more restrictive than others. Just because you live there does not give you the right to drag the neighborhood down by having the yard full of inoperable "stuff". If the boat is on a trailer, that constitutes a vehicle and as such must be licensed. Same with a car and in that case it must also be insured or parked inside or covered if its inoperable. I don't mean to be harsh here but you are essentially violtating the law in several instances. You said you did not transfer title on one boat because the license was current. That does not mean you don't have to transfer it. There is simply too much of this going on with cars and boats and when fines occur over it people get upset. Follow the law and everything works fine. Chances are your neighbors are calling the city as they don't like what they see and I suspect if I lived next to you I'd be upset with you as well. I fully understand the financial situation and I've been there myself years ago. I used to do with cars what you are doing with boats. The difference however, is my "junk" didn't sit outside. If it didn't fit in my garage I didn't drag it home. If you can't properly store this stuff then you need to find a place to pursue your hobby where it is legal (and I don't mean you should move). There are communities where you can't have a motor home, travel trailer, boat, or camper in your yard -- period.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

First thing to do is find out if "covered vehicles" are ok. In my city you cant park a spare or parts vehicle in the front of the house unless it is covered. Next find and photograph and document other violoations like yours that this inspector is not addressing. Perhaps you can find several dozen and then forse him "to do his job" You may have a neighbor calling in and finding out which one is next to inpossible. Before spending alot of money go see an attorney for his interpitation of what you can or cant do. Several hundred might save several thousand.

 

[nitsuj]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

I respectfully disagree with thefairlaneman. Or at least part of what he said. I wouldn't go around trying to get any other neighbors in trouble if they've managed to somehow sneak under the radar. Sure, it will cause the inspector some trouble, but in the end, you still won't be able to park your boats in the yard and you'll have just given a bunch of people the same headache you now have. Maybe it's my Italian heritage speaking but, being a rat is never the answer.

I'd comply, or at least try to. You said yourself that 2 of the boats are just junk waiting to be scrapped. Having one boat in the yard may be an infraction they're willing to overlook. Having 3 may be too much to get away with. I'd get rid of the heaps and move the one you use. Then after the heat dies down, try parking your good boat in the yard and see if you get away with it. Unless you have a huge lot, 3 boats would junk up any houses appearance, and probably annoy a neighbor to the point of turning you in. One boat may not have the same effect.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

After reading the city ordenance I have to say you are out of luck. It sounds like my HOA. Interesting is that I had to move my 23 footer cabin cudy to a storage place today ($65.00 a month) because my HOA already fined me $25 and would have fine me again if I had not moved it by friday.
Your options sounded similar to mines, get rid of the boat, move the boat to a storage facility, move from your place or (this one applies to me) put a fence that will shield the boat from view.

Going around and telling in your neighbors will not get the rules changed. I have seem about 5 of the same violations in my subdivision and i dont see them moving anything so I am sure the HOA is not pursuing them. Im sure my problem (after 5 years of living there with the boat in the same place) is the new neighbors that I think complaint about my boat.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

Your municipality and inspectors are not being "jerks", they are just doing their jobs by responding to complaints. I was just in the same situation. Had 6 boats with 3 outside. Some neighbors complained. Town made me get rid of them (the three outside) or be fined. Can't say I really blame them; it was making my property look like a marina junkyard. That was just the kick I needed to get off my butt and clean up the place. Looks better now and even I am happier.

Find out if the "accessory" structure mentioned in the ordinance pertains to those Tarp covered fully enclosed garages. They are cheap and once the vehicle is inside and totally enclosed, the town or municipality can not look to see if it is registered or not--That would require a search warrant.

If you read closely, the thrust of the ordiance is aimed at commercial use of your property but can also be interpreted to include objectionable situations such as yours.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

I moved due to such crap. Now where I'm at, the limits of the city is moving closer and the letters are coming again. Spotless, picture perfect communities makes me want to puke. I live, work, and play on my property that I pay the taxes on. If you don't like looking at it, then look on the other side of the road.

 

[mole2]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

So let me understand this post.

1. You have three unregistered boats in your yard two of which are wrecks.

2. You have an unregistered boat you're using on the water because the previous owner registered it. (This would make it untraceable to you in the event you decide to do #3 with this one also or if involved in an accident)

3. To get rid of one (and possibly the second) boat you are thinking of sinking it in violation of EPA laws, etc.

4. You're upset because your city ordinances don't permit any of this crap.

Ok...I understand now. Good luck. You've got my sympathy.

 

[JB]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

I guess it is one of the prices one pays to live in town.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

I'm not one to start an argument MAYFLOAT, but what if across the street I own a 500,000 dollar property that I can only sell for 300,000 because of your crap and attitude? You are costing me 200,000. Am I supposed to look the other way and turn the other cheek? I think not.

 

[m&m252]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

frank acampora makes a valid statement and i doubt this was a drive by enforcement officer this was due to someone making a call to code enforcement...

 

[bassboy1]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

I'm not one to start an argument MAYFLOAT, but what if across the street I own a 500,000 dollar property that I can only sell for 300,000 because of your crap and attitude? You are costing me 200,000. Am I supposed to look the other way and turn the other cheek? I think not.

On the same token, what if I get mad that your 500k house, and perfectly manicured lawn is raising my property value up? Unlikely at best, but still possible. Gotta look at both sides of the coin.

 

[Road Guy]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

most likely one of your neighbors turned you in. People I know that do code enforcement for my county tell me they dont ride around and look for stuff, they just have time to go look at the list from people who call in to complain.

But do they not allow temporary (weekend) work periods?

Although I do live within a HOA, I can bring the boat home for a weekend and work on it, out of respect for my neighbors I wouldnt leave it there for long periods of time though.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

Depends on the county, city or hoa. In my HOA, you CAN NOT work in a boat or park it in the front of the house. You can work on it inside a garage or by fencing the back of your house and work on it there. Only cars can be work on and it cant be a big work and have to be moved in less than 24 hrs. You cant even park in your driveway for 72 consecutives hours... Cant wait until I can move to the country...

 

[aspeck]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

Chances are, those ordinances didn't just happen - they were there BEFORE you moved in. By purchasing that property you agreed to abide by them. If you did not like them, you should have moved elsewhere.

Where I lived before, I could do about anything and I liked that. I moved into a development where I cannot leave a boat in the driveway - or any recreational vehicle. I had to build accordingly. I didn't like all of the rules, but because of location, I went for it. Now I have to live with it. That is just the way it is.

 

[nitsuj]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

Wow. If nothing else this thread has taught me to never buy a home where they have HOA's or stupid city laws about boats. The logic that it's my responsibility to make sure your home is increasing in value is crap. It's a bunch of yuppie crap. Buy your house and live in it. Take care of it how you want. I get to live in mine how I want. Where does it end? Can my neighbors make me buy a nicer car so their neighborhood looks better? Can they make me have my mixed breed dog put to sleep and buy a pure bred with papers? What if one of my kids is ugly? Do I have to put him up for adoption so you can maintain that Norman Rockwell look when you take pictures for your Christmas newsletter?

I can afford a boat. I can afford to have a shop work on my boat. But I'm a gear head. I like working on things. Sure 2 junker boats in a yard with 3 boats is a bit much, but someone telling me what I can do in my own yard seems a little, ummm, un-American. But thats just my opinion.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

Turned out to be a very interesting thread, didn't it?

We all have our own biases and opinions--This is almost as good as discussing religion

 

[wncrjb]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

It sounds to me that if you get rid of the 2 parts boats and register the good boat in your name, the problem is solved..........

 

[guy74]

Re: Legal Q: Can't work on my boats?

I guess that is why I live where I live. Have you heard of nowhere, well I live in the middle of it. Neighbors are miles away here, but I have to drive 35 miles to get boat parts.