demsvmejm said:PW,
Normally I agree with you pretty closely. However in this case I agree that if we say March 2008 we will pull-out unconditionally, then we are saying that if those opposing us can hold out that long we will be gone and then they can have their way. However I do agree that we need to take a hard line and mandate progress from the Iraqi governement. There must be ramifications for failing to meet our demands for progress, but a prescribed pull-out date is to full of dangers. And a demand for accountability from this president, and future presidents for that matter is necessary too.
PW2 said:demsvmejm said:PW,
Normally I agree with you pretty closely. However in this case I agree that if we say March 2008 we will pull-out unconditionally, then we are saying that if those opposing us can hold out that long we will be gone and then they can have their way. However I do agree that we need to take a hard line and mandate progress from the Iraqi governement. There must be ramifications for failing to meet our demands for progress, but a prescribed pull-out date is to full of dangers. And a demand for accountability from this president, and future presidents for that matter is necessary too.
Well, not picking a date is even more dangerous. We need to send not only Iraq, but the region a message that our stay is not unending, and if we wait till there is no danger, we'll be there for a hundred years.
[colour=blue]PW2, Can ya still think critically, with the perspective of facts n' history, or did that end in 1965 when ya scored the ol' HS diploma, (I assume you graduated)? How long have we been in Japan and Germany or Korea? Haven't the post war paths of those three countries and the way they help the world be more prosperous been worth it to the USA? A hundred years would be worth a responsible peacfull Middle East. NOT TO THE LIBERALS INVESTED IN DEFEAT! Are you invested in defeat at any cost PW2?[/colour]
You see where Saudi Arabia is calling our action in Iraq illegal? And they are our friends. Imagine what our enemies are saying.
[colour=blue]Saudia Arabia is and has been a problem[/colour].
The Baker Hamilton report says we need to engage the region diplomatically, and that is what we must do. And the region won't get involved as long as we are there.
[colour=blue]Defeat at any cost.[/colour]
We need the Saudis, Jordanians, et al to counterbalance Iran's influence, and it will never happen until we leave.
[colour=blue]Sure it will.[/colour]
Boomyal said:If you wrote them and you sent them, kudo's to you Eric. Just keep in mind that they have already succeeded in deluding half the populace with their anti war drivel. American opinions have not driven them, it's the other way around. In their quest for power they have taken up every positition that is anti Bush. It is the Liberal Elite, in concert with the media that has formed public opinion on the subject of war in Iraq as part of the war on terror.
PW2 said:My letters are private.
I'm sure you can figure out the gist it from here.
And Murky, Japan and Germany are not comparable to Iraq. We defeated them, and that was never our goal in the middle east.
[colour=blue]
Oh really? Kind of a shallow illogical view ya have there: PW2. I always thought when ya boil all things down that America has always prefered a peacefull environment in which to prosper domestically and do business. If isolation would work we would do the deal in a NY second, (that is in the days of WW1 to now, it just doesn't work: PW2 if ya have a brain that has some remaining function: at least), sorry: for the shock of my words. We tried to stay out of WW2 but we had to act in our own self interest, (or we would be speaking German or Japanise). Thank You: Sir Winston Churchill!! We would have prefered the USSR was a nice n' friendly big fuzz ball, (like some of the Democrats n' Liberals told us), but they were not, another shock: sorry PW2. President Jimmy Carter got us very close to the brink, (where thoughtfull people were pondering boning up on their Russian, and indoor temps @ 68 degrees BTW), remember that pathetic coward: PW2? We would prefer that the Middle East would have stayed relatively static, behaved themselves, and sold us their oil, but some seventh century types have effectively organized a significant portion of 1 Billion Muslims to exploit the internet or any other means to bring the entire world under their thumbs. The ends justify the means, (and get 'em 72 virgins ta boot). I guess clear cogent thinking is something ya left behind at Nathan Hale in 1965, eh PW2? Iraq and WW2 or Iraq and the Cold War, are different in the Types of conflict and the tactics of our enemies, but there is a real threat there: PW2, (sorry another shock). The SNOTTY LIBERAL ELITES AND DEMOCRATS HERE AND IN EUROPE are intellectually dishonest: OUR ENEMIES STATE CLEARLY THAT IRAQ IS THE FRONT LINE IN THIS WAR FOR CONTROL OF THE PLANET. BTW: it payed to listen to Stalin's words, Hitler's words, Mao's words, why do the modern Liberals and Democratc Party arrogantly think that a worthless country like Afganistan needs 100% of our attention, or hammering a fragile nuclear dictatorship in Pakistan in a illogical mobilization to get OBL, (what is the gain here)? DEFEAT and any price, is the only logical explanation. Mental ilness is the other possible answer. You choose, as Murky can't understand the dark wishes of modern Liberals and Democrats.[/colour]
I've never really figured out our goal in Iraq, but if it was to not provide a safe haven for AlQaida, in my view, that ship has sailed. With Pakistan and Afghanistan, not to mention Indonesia, how many safe havens do they need?
[colour=blue]Hmmmmmm, I guess ya need a little help PW2. THE GOAL IS A STABLE SELF SUSTAINING RESPONSIBLE COUNTRY LIKE: Germany, Japan, South Korea. Does that help just a little: PW2?[/colour]
If it was to bring democracy to the middle east, all you have to do is listen to the political debate here, and view the political process here with the money and all, and ask "Is this what we expect them to embrace?"
[colour=blue]I know. What self respecting Liberal would want a stable, powerfull, prosperous, wonderfull Country like the USA? Just a terrible place responsable for all that is wrong or has ever been wrong on planet Earth right: PW2? A question ta ponder: Is Liberalism a mental illness? My $.02. JR ps Sorry Eric. Your letter to your Senators was about surrender I thought this rant just made things clear for those who care to ponder such heavy things.[/colour]
PW2 said:One question, Murky.
Why is it our responsibility what form of government the Iraqis, or anyone else, for that matter, decide to adopt?
PW2 said:Let me guess, Murky.
Neither history nor logic was your best subject in high school?
[colour=blue]Wrong, and since I had a post HS education from some of the finest Communists money can buy, why is the ol' HS education so important?[/colour]
A specific form of government has nothing to do with the bellicose nature of any government. Hitler was elected in a democratic election.
[colour=blue]Agreed, yer point?[/colour]
I can't make any sense out of the rest of your post to even comment, except to say if I understood it, I'm sure I would disagree with it!
[colour=blue]I need some of that smoke you and Rolmops partake in. My post was fairly clear, (but I only have one brain cell that functions, so ya need some higher level function ta get the drift: PW2). I'm sure you would dissagree even if it was just for the principal involved. "Carry On" JR[/colour]
PW2 said:My letters are private.
I'm sure you can figure out the gist it from here.
And Murky, Japan and Germany are not comparable to Iraq. We defeated them, and that was never our goal in the middle east.
I've never really figured out our goal in Iraq, but if it was to not provide a safe haven for AlQaida, in my view, that ship has sailed. With Pakistan and Afghanistan, not to mention Indonesia, how many safe havens do they need?
If it was to bring democracy to the middle east, all you have to do is listen to the political debate here, and view the political process here with the money and all, and ask "Is this what we expect them to embrace?"
Haut said:I think we should force Democracy down their throats, whether they like it or not....
They will learn to like it.....
We have too much invested not to see it through........![]()
PW2 said:Let me guess, Murky.
Neither history nor logic was your best subject in high school?
A specific form of government has nothing to do with the bellicose nature of any government. Hitler was elected in a democratic election.
I can't make any sense out of the rest of your post to even comment, except to say if I understood it, I'm sure I would disagree with it!
demsvmejm said:Gabby said:demsvmejm said:What you all REFUSE to acknowledge is...
That the "emboldening our sworn enemy" garbage is simply and strictly propaganda.
That baby bush does not now, and never had a plan. That the redumblicans have done nothing while they were in power except rubber stamp king george's mandates.
That so far there has been NO accountability of progress in Iraq.
Whereas I do not agree with a mandated withdrawl date, and think that the "surge" is little more than a small wave, I can't see where the repubs are doing anything but playing spoiled pouty brats. Compromise takes effort on both sides. You all expect the Dems to roll over and acquiesce to the repubs demands.
So far baby bush has been given nothing less than a blank check for his pet war, and the cost has been forced on the backs of common citizens. It is about time congress makes some demands for accountability. A hard and fast deadline is WRONG, but a total lack of accountability as has been the case so far is equally wrong.
Just another lengthy diatribe by someone that doesn't have a vested interest, and never served, about something they know nothing about.
Too bad all the people qualified to run this country and Congress are too busy cutting hair, driving trucks, building houses, teaching school, etc. etc. etc.
You want to make a difference? Do something for the common good besides spout off on a message board. What volunteer organizations do you belong to? What civic agencies are you involved in? What religious or charitable organizations do you belong to? What's that? Oh, nothing? You just like to use derogatory and belittling terms like King George cause your not really capable of doing anything. Whether you like the man or not, he is the President of the United States. His office isnt something to be made fun of.
TOO LATE!!! The tragic comedy began on his first inauguration day.
Sad. You and all your little democratic friends. Just sad. You dont have a rational argument, just an emotional one. Can you not think? Must you get your ideas from the media and others? God what a travesty
OUCH!!!! What a scathing defensive diatribe. No I did not serve, not because I was unwilling, I just was unwilling to take part in the lies the recruiters were telling me. Nothing political, just that I would get credit for my vocational training,and then when it was time to sign, I was to get no credit at all. Or like I could choose where I spent basic and my first two years, then when it came time to sign, there was no provision and would be no provision. I would be sent where the military felt like sending me. I don't care to hear about the military's need and serving it, I was promised something to get me to sign and then the recruiter refused to honor that promise. Nothing political, just lies, and that is why I did not serve. At least my daddy didn't get me into fake service where there was no chance of me seeing combat. I'm not saying the National Guard is fake service, just baby bush's service to it.