Life vest questions

[vintageglass]

Re: Life vest questions

I called a few companies, pretty much go nowhere so far.
One place did refer me to another 4x to 7X Stearns Vest with a crotch strap, it was cheap enough so I ordered it, got it in two days.
Its marked 4XL to 7XL, has two crotch straps and adjustable lower straps only. the top strap is can only adjust about 3 inches or so. With the vest fully expanded, it fits snugly on me if I only am wearing a light T shirt. Forget getting it on me with a jacket on. I went down to where they bring in all the commercial boats, asked around a bit and was told to check out one place nearby, but that was a dead end, I was told that they mostly only use survival suits, and they only put those on if the boat is sinking, they had those up to 4X, and there was no chance of me fitting into any they had there.

I pretty much need to go try whatever I buy on. I took a chance with the one I ordered, and it would be a good choice in milder weather but not in sub freezing weather. It won't be able to be worn to keep me legal in NY waters as it would never fit over a winter jacket, or a sweatshirt at that.

My80 year old dad who barely breaks the 180lb mark at 5'10" tall these days tried on the 7XL marked suit over top a light jacket and had trouble buckling the straps. If this is an indication of how these are sized, I would need a 12XL or 14XL to fit me over my jacket.

So far no one locally stocks or sells a full jacket life vest that I see. At least nothing bigger than an XL.

To better describe my size, I wear a size 46 pair of work pants, have a 58" chest size, and am 6'4" tall. I'm no featherweight but I'm not all that big as big guys go. What would someone that's 450lbs and 5'5" tall do?
I intend to keep making some calls.

 

[veritas honus]

Re: Life vest questions

I called a few companies, pretty much go nowhere so far.
One place did refer me to another 4x to 7X Stearns Vest with a crotch strap, it was cheap enough so I ordered it, got it in two days.
Its marked 4XL to 7XL, has two crotch straps and adjustable lower straps only. the top strap is can only adjust about 3 inches or so. With the vest fully expanded, it fits snugly on me if I only am wearing a light T shirt. Forget getting it on me with a jacket on. I went down to where they bring in all the commercial boats, asked around a bit and was told to check out one place nearby, but that was a dead end, I was told that they mostly only use survival suits, and they only put those on if the boat is sinking, they had those up to 4X, and there was no chance of me fitting into any they had there.

I pretty much need to go try whatever I buy on. I took a chance with the one I ordered, and it would be a good choice in milder weather but not in sub freezing weather. It won't be able to be worn to keep me legal in NY waters as it would never fit over a winter jacket, or a sweatshirt at that.

My80 year old dad who barely breaks the 180lb mark at 5'10" tall these days tried on the 7XL marked suit over top a light jacket and had trouble buckling the straps. If this is an indication of how these are sized, I would need a 12XL or 14XL to fit me over my jacket.

So far no one locally stocks or sells a full jacket life vest that I see. At least nothing bigger than an XL.

To better describe my size, I wear a size 46 pair of work pants, have a 58" chest size, and am 6'4" tall. I'm no featherweight but I'm not all that big as big guys go. What would someone that's 450lbs and 5'5" tall do?
I intend to keep making some calls.

Don't give up on "off the shelf" just yet; but you may end up having to have one custom made. Just about any good company will work with you.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Life vest questions

I've been following this thread, and I'm honestly having a hard time believing a PFD with 40# of flotation doesn't keep you afloat. Perhaps it has something to do with the clothing and gear you had on at the time?

 

[vintageglass]

Re: Life vest questions

If I end up having to have one custom made, that alone is pretty insane since I'm not all that big compared to many others I've seen.

As to 40lbs of flotation not supporting my weight, that was the rating that the life vest claimed. The super sized 4x-7x vest I just bought is rated at only 13lbs, yet it's got far more flotation foam in volume than does the one marked 40lb. I have no idea how they rate these things.

To put it in a better perspective, I was wearing swim trunks, nothing else. Your question also brings up another point, if I was fishing, I'd likely have keys, a cell phone, wallet, and maybe even tools in my pockets.

How does that rating work? Does it simply mean that it will hold up that amount of weight in the water?

Something else I tried which may help explain the situation is weight, I weigh 325 on dry land, give or take a few pounds. In the water, weighed hanging from a hanging scale, I weighed in at 216lbs in the water up to my neck. This was done in a horse rehabilitation pool which I have access to. Weighing others, their weight drops to almost nothing in the water, I do not. A buddy did the same comparison, and on land he weighs 165 lbs, and in the water, he weighed only 19 lbs. In comparison, he can also float on the surface and has to swim hard to reach the bottom of the pool. I fall to the bottom like a rock and have to struggle to get to the surface if I don't stand up and climb out.

As to being more muscle than fat, I have no idea, I'm no muscle builder or fitness fanatic, far from it, more of a beer drinker. I guess a beer gut doesn't float.

I've never been able to easily stay on the surface, even as a kid, I gave up on swimming lessons after being told I was too heavy to swim.
I'm certainly open to suggestions. If I could find a suitable foam, I'd have a good nylon jacket stuffed with it and give that a try. I've talked to many so far, especially commercial guys that just plain don't wear anything because it don't exist.
How do they size these things anyway? If I wear a 2XL jacket or coat, how does a 4x-7x vest barely fit? Even with it fully expanded, with no jacket on, its tight enough to be really uncomfortable. The one advantage to this one is that it zips up, the two older vests I have use only 5 straps, no zippers. This has a zipper, side laces to size the vest, two belly straps, and one chest area strap, plus two crotch straps. The crotch straps will no doubt hold it on me, but I sort of am afraid to jump in the water with it on. If it's only 13 lbs of flotation, and I sunk one rated at 40 lbs, those lower straps are a really painful thought. This new vest has over 3 times the bulk as the one marked 40lbs. My take is that the rating method has changed over the years?

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Life vest questions

I'm not really too fond of having to spend $300+ on a life jacket

Would you be willing to spend $300 if you were on the lake bottom looking up?

Also think about it this way - would you spend $300 for your family's safety? I'm willing to bet they'd spend $300 for yours as well.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Life vest questions

Something else I tried which may help explain the situation is weight, I weigh 325 on dry land, give or take a few pounds. In the water, weighed hanging from a hanging scale, I weighed in at 216lbs in the water up to my neck. This was done in a horse rehabilitation pool which I have access to. Weighing others, their weight drops to almost nothing in the water, I do not. A buddy did the same comparison, and on land he weighs 165 lbs, and in the water, he weighed only 19 lbs. In comparison, he can also float on the surface and has to swim hard to reach the bottom of the pool. I fall to the bottom like a rock and have to struggle to get to the surface if I don't stand up and climb out.

If that is an accurate measurement, there is no practical way that you will be able to wear enough flotation to raise 216 lbs. I think the bottom line for you is: If you fall in the water you will sink and die if you can't muscle your way to the top and immediately grab something.
Now, that sounds harsh, but to guys working on fishing vessels in the north that is their reality. They fall in the 30-40 degree water in rough seas and there is a very great chance they will be dead. That is a risk they know and accept. Only you can make the choice if the risk is acceptable for your boating activity. I know that I can bob like a cork on my back for an indefinite period of time as long as I'm conscious, but I still wear a flotation vest because I know if I've fallen out of a boat, something real bad has happened (I've never fallen out in over 40 years....)

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Life vest questions

As corny as it may seem, have you ever considered simply wearing a sturdy leather or canvas type rapelling belt and having a 25' or so safety line hooked to you? It wouldn't be obtrusive, it wouldn't keep you from fishing, and it would be a definite way to keep you above the water line with a just little effort or your part as well as making sure you wouldn't drift away from the boat.

I still highly recommend a PFD to go along with it.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Life vest questions

As corny as it may seem, have you ever considered simply wearing a sturdy leather or canvas type rapelling belt and having a 25' or so safety line hooked to you? It wouldn't be obtrusive, it wouldn't keep you from fishing, and it would be a definite way to keep you above the water line with a just little effort or your part as well as making sure you wouldn't drift away from the boat.

I still highly recommend a PFD to go along with it.

Vintageglass still apparently weighs 215 in the water, so he still has to be able to climb up the rope to the top of the water as if he weighed 215 on dry land. Not easy for average guys to do. As for pulling him up, it would be like pulling up a 215 pound anchor. He does not float at all; he sinks like a large rock.
However, if he actually weighs less that that in the water, like 100 lbs, then it might work.
When I dove (I was less fatty then), I'd have to have 20 lbs of weight to be more or less neutral in salt water.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Life vest questions

Vintageglass still apparently weighs 215 in the water, so he still has to be able to climb up the rope to the top of the water as if he weighed 215 on dry land. Not easy for average guys to do. As for pulling him up, it would be like pulling up a 215 pound anchor. He does not float at all; he sinks like a large rock.
However, if he actually weighs less that that in the water, like 100 lbs, then it might work.
When I dove (I was less fatty then), I'd have to have 20 lbs of weight to be more or less neutral in salt water.

His earlier post said he could swim to shore but he found he couldn't stay put without sinking.

I was thinking this would be more of a life saving device. Fall into the water and between him pulling himself on the rope and kicking, at least he wouldn't sink. I don't think climbing back into the boat is an option, but it would at least keep him from finding someplace to sleep on the bottom of the lake bed.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Life vest questions

To get an accurate "water weight," the head has to be in the water too. But he is still going to be way over what any normal PFD can float. To add insult to injury, losing weight the usual way will likely make things worse, since fat is less dense than water.

Sorry, VG, I haven't a clue how to keep you safe on the water.

 

[jayhanig]

Re: Life vest questions

. If it's only 13 lbs of flotation, and I sunk one rated at 40 lbs, those lower straps are a really painful thought. This new vest has over 3 times the bulk as the one marked 40lbs. My take is that the rating method has changed over the years?

I used to teach scuba and have plenty of experience with crotch straps. You run the thing to one side or the other and it doesn't hurt when you jump in. You run it right over the jewels and it's a mistake you'll only make once.

 

[vintageglass]

Re: Life vest questions

Would you be willing to spend $300 if you were on the lake bottom looking up?

Also think about it this way - would you spend $300 for your family's safety? I'm willing to bet they'd spend $300 for yours as well.

The money doesn't seem to be the issue, so far I've not found anything to fit yet, at any cost. Maybe I should have said I'm not a big fan of spending $300+ without knowing it will fit. I'm not up for a round or two of returning something that may or may not be returnable at full value. Most of these places list a huge restocking fee right upfront, and if it's custom made, it's certainly not returnable.
The bottom line is that I need to find someplace that has my size in stock where I can try it on first.

The rope idea isn't far from what we usually do when fishing alone, it's common to trail a length of knotted rope behind the boat so the boat don't get away. But that or any rope method don't do much good if you hit your unconscious or if the boat sinks.

My ability to swim to shore these days also may not be as good as it once was, with arthritis, age, and old injuries I'm far from what I once was.

The first time I realized that a life vest don't work for me I had jumped into about 10' of water in a lake to help someone into the boat, I hit bottom so hard I was in pain. I ended up walking to towards shallow water about 30' away and onto shore. The vest gave me no flotation. I could jump and bob to the surface but I went right back down. That was a very large sport style vest meant for water sports. That was what pretty much convinced me I needed something better, but I gave up years ago after the biggest vest I could find then didn't work either.
I'm older now, a bit heavier, and my thinking was that maybe my added weight would be flotation, but that's not the case. I sink the same now as before, only now I'm no longer in any shape to do any swimming.

My main questions are how are the capabilities of a vest measured?
How do you take an accurate measurement of weight in the water?
What I did with using the horse equipment seemed right but it's more or less a guess on my part. The equipment is more used to weigh a horse as it's lifted into the pool, not in the water.

I've watched others jump into swimming pools, lakes and what not and have never seen anyone bounce off the bottom, the water always stops or slows their decent, even in shallower water, I hit bottom as fast as if you tossed in an anvil. For me, staying at the surface, even while moving is an all out effort.

Does anyone know what type of foam is used in life vests? Is it available?
I'd be half interested in experimenting with making my own vest.

I realize that a vest should keep you head and face up in the water, but I've seen nothing that adds flotation to your legs or anywhere else, other than a survival suit. My only concern is that I may need something equivalent to a tractor inner tube to keep me afloat.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Life vest questions

Flotation foam in a vest can be anything from 1/4" polystyrene foam pieces stacked up (like in one of the floating cushions with straps) to 2" closed cell float foam. I have never seen flotation foam come thicker than 2", but you can certainly stack it. That vest would be enormous!

I'm not sure what to tell you. The events you describe when jumping into the water almost seem unrealistic, even for a big man, but I'm not doubting you.

Outside of wearing a zodiac on your back like a turtle shell, you may be forced to drop a lot of weight or continue taking your chances. Perhaps an email to the Sterns company directly will have them get their R&D people on it. They make make something special for you, even at a great cost.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Life vest questions

My main questions are how are the capabilities of a vest measured?
How do you take an accurate measurement of weight in the water?
What I did with using the horse equipment seemed right but it's more or less a guess on my part. The equipment is more used to weigh a horse as it's lifted into the pool, not in the water.

You could actually use a mechanical scale sitting on the flat bottom of the deep end to weigh yourself, since you are not buoyant. Or, with the horse scale, you can completely dunk yourself until you're completely submerged with your feet off of the bottom if the tank and harness allow for that.
As for how a vest is certified, the Coast Guard refers to UL standard that I don't have access to:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/pfd-lights.asp
I would suspect (e.g. blind guess ) that they have some standard weighted dummies that they have to float.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Life vest questions

Does anyone know what type of foam is used in life vests? Is it available?
I'd be half interested in experimenting with making my own vest.

I realize that a vest should keep you head and face up in the water, but I've seen nothing that adds flotation to your legs or anywhere else, other than a survival suit. My only concern is that I may need something equivalent to a tractor inner tube to keep me afloat.

Careful, or you'll end up looking like this guy:

 

[jayhanig]

Re: Life vest questions

I've watched others jump into swimming pools, lakes and what not and have never seen anyone bounce off the bottom, the water always stops or slows their decent, even in shallower water, I hit bottom as fast as if you tossed in an anvil. For me, staying at the surface, even while moving is an all out effort.

I'm going to say something that I've never said before and I doubt you want to hear: you are exceptionally negative in buoyancy... more so than any individual I've ever run across in many years of diving instruction. You just may not be suited for being around the water.

I am confident if I hit the water unprepared that I can support myself, either by floating, treading water, tying knots in my pants legs and catching air in them to hold me up... one way or another I can stay afloat for an extended period. As big as I am I can still find life jackets that both fit me and will support me and I don't have to look any further than the local suppliers to find one. It'll be in stock.

None of that applies to you. I believe you are physically unsuited for activities around water. This is not to say you can't do it but you have to understand an accident that most of us will easily survive may well be lethal for you.

I may not be the first to tell you this but you're the first I've ever said it to. Sorry to have to say it but I think you're an accident waiting to happen.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Life vest questions

Now that Jay has let the cat out of the bag, I have to say I've been thinking the same thing.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Life vest questions

If that is an accurate measurement, there is no practical way that you will be able to wear enough flotation to raise 216 lbs. I think the bottom line for you is: If you fall in the water you will sink and die if you can't muscle your way to the top and immediately grab something.
Now, that sounds harsh, but to guys working on fishing vessels in the north that is their reality. They fall in the 30-40 degree water in rough seas and there is a very great chance they will be dead. That is a risk they know and accept. Only you can make the choice if the risk is acceptable for your boating activity.

Think I covered that 10 posts ago....

 

[jayhanig]

Re: Life vest questions

Think I covered that 10 posts ago....

So you did. Now you have two others who agree with you.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Life vest questions

You would look great in this is you could get Fisher Price to make it in 7XL!!

In all sincerety, best of luck to you. I would hate to see you become a statistic. Please be extra careful.