Lifting '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 & Repairing Electric SelecTrim

[gryhnd]

Short version: need to lift the front of my engine slightly to remove the motor mounts and work on a trim problem. However only have one lift bracket (see attached) and it's at the wrong end

Longer version: According to the manual, (Ch7, page 10) there are two lifting brackets on my engine, but alas there are not. There are a few pre-threaded empty spots on the engine, but they are rather shallow and don't accommodate as large a bolt as the one that holds the existing lift bracket in place.

I've seen references here in searches to using a power steering bracket bolt hole, but I'm frankly not sure where that is, if that's even on this old Chevy, and if it is I feel like I need some reassurances about this before attempting a lift.

I do not need to remove the engine, just take the load off the front mounts enough to remove them.

I've taken a number of pictures of the engine but didn't want to flood the forum with them. If they can be of any help, they are found here.

Lastly, I'm hesitant to leave the engine suspended while I work on the trim. Am I correct in assuming that the oil pan probably isn't strong enough to support even the partial weight of the engine spread over a couple of 2x12s resting on the stringers? If so, any suggestions?

Thanks for the help.

Edit to change Buick to Chev.

2nd Edit to update to better fitting thread title

 

[vxtech]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Buick)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Buick)

in img 8301 there are 2 holes beside sparkplug, first get a tap and clean threads in holes,then you can either make your own lifting eyeplate from 1/4 inch steel and drill three holes, or once threads are cleaned get a chain and use bolts to attach chain to those holes, under no circumstances do i recommended working under a lifted motor at all, i have lifted complete inline 6 and turned perpendicular to center line of boat and layed plywood on floor and rested motor down BUT front motor mount remained on engine, if you support by oilpan i suggest you use the bolt area along edges only as main part of pan will dent and oil pump suction screen housing will hit pan possibly causing oil starvation or even worse screen housing will get pushed into crankshaft rotation area because it is very close when in the proper position never mind bumped and banged around hope this helps ,chris

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Buick)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Buick)

Thanks Chris.

Those two holes are well threaded and clean inside. I had already tried a bolt in them, but they were pretty shallow (1/2" maybe) and smaller in diameter than the lifting bracket bolt. Hence, I wasn't too sure how beefy they were. OTOH, I wasn't thinking of using both at once, that's a great idea.

I'll wait for other ideas as well before moving forward.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Buick)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Buick)

Point of clarification: Inline sixes are Chevrolet engines not Buick. Buick built some of the V6 engines.

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Buick)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Buick)

Point of clarification: Inline sixes are Chevrolet engines not Buick. Buick built some of the V6 engines.

Yes, true. Brain fart...the V6s.

Just got back from the hardware store with chains, bolts, etc. Not sure if I'll be able to get to this before the long weekend, but I am prepped to go now.

 

[rocket1968]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

What is your trim problem? I am suprised you need to lift the engine to address. Is it the lines? They are avail from the outside.

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

What is your trim problem? I am suprised you need to lift the engine to address. Is it the lines? They are avail from the outside.

I have the selectrim which works of an electric motor, not hydraulics.

I need to work on the gears.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Am I correct in assuming that the oil pan probably isn't strong enough to support even the partial weight of the engine spread over a couple of 2x12s resting on the stringers?

no, that would be fine

the pan is plenty strong if you use a wide wooden block

I just slide my floor jack in under the engine, jack it up, block it and remove the selectrim

the lift bracket in your pic is at the rear of the engine, that's no good for what you are doing

a hunk of rope, (with a piece of heater hose over it to protect your hands), tied around the alternator and 1 or 2 strong guys could lift the front of that engine. you'll be dead lifting less than 150 pounds

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Mixed success this morning. I removed the motor mounts-to-stringer bolts no problem, lifted the engine a couple inches, and then removed two of the four bolts holding the mounts onto the block. However two other bolts are being difficult. I got one to move a bit, the other is so far stuck fast and I am worried I'll snap it. I applied some penetrating oil to them as best I could (the bolt holes don't go all the way through so there is no direct access to the threads).

I'll wait a couple hours and see what happens. I'm gonna be pissed if that sucker breaks...

My yankee motor lift: old boat winch bolted to a ceiling joist in my barn:

Eyebolts screwed into the block + chain:

And (although you can't tell), the motor is up just a bit.

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

With the oil and a whole lot of muscle, I managed to free the frozen bolt without breaking or stripping it.

I did, however, lose a good chuck of skin when the ratchet slipped and I wracked the back of my hand against the alternator blades

I document everything :redface:

But, the mounts and trim mechanism are now out. Probably won't get back to this until next week. I'm not looking forward to it. I'm afraid if it isn't something simple or obvious, I'll be in over my head skill and tool wise.

Placed a 2x12 under the engine and lowered it slightly so that there's some weight on the wood, and some on the chains. Oil pan isn't taking all the weight "just in case".

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

there is a grease fitting on that worm assembly. Most never get greased. Bilge water gets in and mucks everything up.
Too bad, because if folks greased them, they would last forever.
like all DC tilt or trim motors, those ones have a bad habit of carboning up. I disassemble and clean the armature bars with emery cloth, and scrape between them with a seal pick gently
or you can take it to a motor shop.

watch carefully all the little nylon washers and shims in there.. put them back same

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

there is a grease fitting on that worm assembly. Most never get greased. Bilge water gets in and mucks everything up.

Thanks for the tips. Funny you mention the grease fitting. I found that fitting last Sunday when I was trying to free the trim from it's frequent sticking problem (this time after sitting over winter).

It's position didn't allow for grease gun access, but by swapping it for a right angle fitting, I was able to get in there and fill her up. It was the day after I did that, that it started getting really bogged down (compared to after I had unstuck it) and then essentially quit altogether.

So I don't know if it was coincidence, bad luck, water in the gear box that I forced up higher when I greased her, or what.

The trim motor is only about 5 years old (had it replaced the season after we got the boat). A relative did leave the bilge pump off once, and water rose high enough to contact the whole shebang, so it's possible that's the source of the problem.

Thanks again.

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

like all DC tilt or trim motors, those ones have a bad habit of carboning up. I disassemble and clean the armature bars with emery cloth, and scrape between them with a seal pick gently
or you can take it to a motor shop.

Question related to above quote following...

Today I got everything disassembled. There was a good amount of water in there

Most of the gearing seems OK, and all of it moved freely. The grease was awful though, contaminated with water it was pretty diarrhea brown. The worm gear has a some corrosion at the top, but a topic for another post.

I pulled the tilt trim motor next...

and as you can see the water was all over it, and so I presume in it as well:

Exactly how do you get inside the motor to service it? I see two large philips screws on the sides. They are fixed in there pretty tight, so I didn't want to try and crack them free if that's not what I should be doing.

Here's all the bits and pieces as I currently have them. Documented everything so I can get it all back together without a problem.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Exactly how do you get inside the motor to service it? I see two large philips screws on the sides.

Nope, those hold the fields in place, the end caps have to come off for service...

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Nope, those hold the fields in place, the end caps have to come off for service...

Thanks, but how do I accomplish that? Are the end caps threaded themselves? Just pry them off? I don't want to destroy this thing by experimenting

 

[Bondo]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Ayuh,... You show the wrong end in your picture,... I Donno...

Are there any screws in the tin cap end,..??

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Only the two long, through screws that hold the motor into the casting and against the worm drive.

One minute...shop run to look...

Ok, so the end cap (wire entry end of the motor) was painted over, but a thin screw driver and a gentle tap of my hammer helped to separate it! Thanks! The through screws were actually what held it together.

However it looks like the shaft is coming out with the end cap, and until I remove that roll pin I can't go any further.

Last soccer game of the season beckons, so I'll have to hold off until tomorrow.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

looking for a general article on servicing small DC motors, not much out there by my searches.

this in pdf would be sweet, but no can find

found this but it's pretty poor:

http://www.ehow.com/how_5515413_repair-electric-motor.html

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

A brief update. I haven't been able to accomplish much as we moved my father in law into our house last Friday from his nursing home. There's quite an (ongoing) adjustment and learning curve to that

With the help of others above, I got into the trim motor. It looked like crap. Water clearly had been knocking around in there for some time, and it had a very healthy packing of contaminated grease as well. The latter I assume is my fault from when I greased up the worm drive gearing. Too much, forced it in? What is an acceptable amount?

I found a company called Delta Electric which rebuilds DC motors, that had a location in Fairhaven MA and in RI, according to their website. I gave them a call to see about looking at mine, and they said come on down.

I took Thursday morning off and headed to the MA facility which was the closer of the two options. When I arrived the building was for sale and a "we've moved" sign was up. WTF? Gave them a call again, and this time found out they had consolidate IN OCTOBER to the RI location, but hadn't bother to update their website. Jebus I was pissed. Lost an entire morning, and there was no way I could get to RI in time.

So I said "screw it", and figuring I couldn't do any worse, grabbed a couple cans of CRC LECTRA-MOTIVE from AutoZone. After using up one bottle and watching all sorts of crap come out, I let it dry, put everything back together and hooked it up to my battery. I'll be damned...she spun right up! This was the best news yet!

It needed more cleaning though which I repeated last night. There's still room for something to go wrong, but at least things are looking up now!

Now a question: would a liberal spray of dielectric grease when reassembling be a good thing?

 

[gryhnd]

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

Re: Lifting front of '75 OMC 165 Inline 6 (Chevy)

With no response to the dielectric grease question, I forged ahead and sprayed it down anyway, being sure to let it dry for a good long time so I didn't run the risk of igniting the carrier solvent when I hooked it up.

It still works! I was pumped to get everything reassembled.

Then a hitch: the thrust bearing on the shaft, right behind the roll pin and sandwiched between two washers, had seen better days. After cleaning it up, it turned out the rollers had worn down below the cage level. So basically I had three washers grinding against each other.

I found a great bearing shop in Plymouth who has two on order for me now. If any S.E. Mass folks need help, give a shout to Capeway Bearing and Machine Inc.

Any suggestions on my other question about how much grease to put back in the whole shebang when I reassemble? Pack it full? Or just grease up all the components and then fill the bottom of the jackscrew case?

Thanks