Lightning danger on the water

Hunky Dory · Jul 28, 2004

Can anybody point to definitive information on this subject?

Common sense says get off the water -- but that's where that tree sits (the one that I'm supposed to avoid). When I was young a stoopid we used to canoe in thunderstorms and thoroughly enjoy the show (and drenching). In case of hail we'd get in the water and use one canoe over another as a shelter (T-shaped with upper canoe inverted). "Logic" was that water is poor conductor -- But, logic wasn't our strong suit at the time... Having not died, and remembering no on-the-water lightening deaths reported, I'm more than curious about the proper reponse for a bunch of bimini-topped pontoon passengers when the sky gets real noisy.

Trent · Jul 28, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

Main thing to do is to get off the water. Lighting and boating

Chris1956 · Jul 28, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

Folks, Two years ago in the summer, I was fishing in the Atlantic Ocean off Island Beach State Park in NJ, with some friends. We were 1-2 miles off the beach and it was one of those humid days that will spawn a thunderstorm. Actually, one developed about 3 miles East of us, so we decide to run for the inlet. A bolt of lightening came from that storm and struck a fellow on the beach. He was playing football with another person, and must have been 4+ miles from the storm, with plenty of other "targets" (including ourselves)in between. As it happened, the Beach Patrol was on the scene and applied immediate CPR. He could not be saved. This kind of thing sure confuses me.

Hunky Dory · Jul 28, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

Trent's reference is excellent! I've read it all the way through -- I'm going to hate being out there if I get caught but I'll feel better knowing the theory of properly protecting the boat. Now intend to mount metal antenna to bimini and ensure that it is well grounded to achieve that "cone of protection" on pontoon. As Chris1956 says, "This kind of thing sure confuses me." I'm thinking that transfer from boat to shore during storm could be biggest exposure. If the boat is "properly protected", should we stay on it??? I bought clear plastic shower curtains to clamp overlapped to front of bimini -- slide 1" PVC into mounting strip to weight down front (curtain clamped upside down). Good relief if driven slow into rain. Never used in thunderstorm but certainly worth the $20 investment so far...

Jack Shellac · Aug 2, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

I heard a meterologist { a real one, not a TV airhead } make a statement about lightning that has stuck with me. He said it's the first or the last bolt of lightning that kills you. The first because you don't seek protection soon enough or the last because you think the storm has gone on by. I've been caght in a thunderstorm on the water once because of my own stupidity. Had to tie off to an oil rig to get in the cone of protection. It was not a pleasant experience.

BillP · Aug 2, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

One of my friends wife was killed by lightning about two weeks ago. The irony of it all was the wife and son got out of the boat and took refuge under trees on an island while the husband tied the boat up. Lightning struck the tree and killed the wife. The son got zapped and is in critical condition.

Hunky Dory · Aug 2, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

BillP, Very sad -- sure didn't mean to hammer you with real life agony in such an offhand fashion. But that was the reason for my post -- to get nailed while trying to do the "correct" thing is the ultimate tragedy. This is not a trivial problem because that "adequate shelter" that one is supposed to seek is usually all the way back at the ramp, still attached to the trailer... I found this about Crater Lake, recommending changes to tour boat operations but citing an historic "spotless" safety record "for much of this century": http://www.nps.gov/crla/litning.htm -- with a beautiful picture of lightning NOT hitting the water. More confusion...

hohmanr · Aug 4, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

Lightning is why man invented sail boats !!! When unable to get back to land, option II is to find a real nice tall one to cozy up with..While not a guarantee of safety, it should offer a measure of protection from hitting you directly. Best bet is to stay off the water though....

18rabbit · Aug 4, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

The cone of protection is a minimum. You want more. There is a popular photo taken sometime in the 60s that shows a lightening strike hitting a two story building. There is a skyscraper with lightening rods atop on either side of the small building. The lightening bolt zig-zags right down between the two lightening rods, the two tall building and smacks the little guy in the middle. So much for the cone of protection. We got lucky in that our vessel came ready for lightening . When I took down the cabin ceiling panels I found about 40-lbs of braided copper strapping interconnection all 3 masts. That strapping routes straight down to stainless steel bolts that go thru hull to grounding plates mounted on the keel exterior. Inside the keel, all six grounding plates are interconnected with braided copper straps as well. Without exception, every piece of exposed metal on the boat (including handrails, cleats, door/window frames) has either braided copper straps or AWG 8 wire to those grounding plates. I have been researching galvanic isolators. During the process it had occurred to me a moored vessel hooked up to shore power is not exempted from the touch of God. What happens to a galvanic isolator in the path of a lightening strike looking at your shore power connection as a way to ground? The GI is sitting in series with the grounding conductor. If all goes well a lightening strike should not find this path, but if it does the GI needs to handle 1000kv without igniting. So far I have found only one unit that appears to be able to handle a lightening strike. Its made by Dairyland Electrical Ind. (Wisconsin go figure.

). A galvanic isolator made by Solcor of Australia may be able to handle a lightening strike as well but I dont have enough technical data on their unit and they are not responding to my emails. Fwiw, most people that dont survive a lightening strike are not directly hit by lightening. They are usually within 25-ft of where the lightening hit. The current takes the path of least resistance lateral through the wettest earth, near the surface. As Bill pointed out, you do not want to be next to the tree. I feel safer on a properly grounded boat than I would anywhere on open land.

BillP · Aug 5, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

I lived aboard sailboats in Florida for 10+ yrs and cruised the Bahamas for 2. We saw lots of strikes and were also scared a few times...but never struck. I have seen boats and spoke to people aboard when struck. The bolt literally jumps around inside the cabin and hits everything electronic or metal. It melts aluminum, sails, hardware, stretches 3/4" keel bolts 6-8" and blows sections of hull laminations off. No size wire will handle the current of a big feeder or bolt, it is impossible to do this size wire on a boat. All you can do is try to keep the boat neutralized so it isn't an attraction. I put a handheld ampmeter on my aluminum mast once and everytime the wind puffed it pegged the meter. Only miliamps but still it showed where the bolt attraction is. Static electricity builds up and attract the strike. Bonding and grounding bleeds off the static quickly and helps make the boat invisible.

CoachHolland · Aug 5, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

I would like to just relay a story about what happened to me about a month ago. I have a small boat, it is only a 17' bowrider, thus I'm pretty limited as far as what kind of protection, if any I can put on the thing. Anyway, I was out on the lake and miles from the nearest dock or ramp when a storm came out of nowhere. Chance of rain was in the forecast, but it was spotty at best. When the storm made it to the lake, we were caught off guard and made a run to the ramps at WOT. Wasn't good enough. We went around a bend and before us we saw only what I can describe as a white squall coming towards us and fast. You couldn't see anything beyond this huge wall of rain that was coming and the wind picked up and the waters which were calm, suddenly became pretty hectic, especially for a new boater like myself. We ducked into a cove with trees on both sides of us. My dad ran up on shore and was underneath a tree and he insisted I follow him. Lightning started flashing every few seconds as we were being pounded by the rain and wind. Limbs and smaller trees started to give way. I started thinking about everything I knew about lightning. Don't get under tall objects, seek shelter at the lowest point you can and crouch. Hiding underneath trees didn't make sense to me and suddenly my boat looked a lot safer, even though I know it is always said not to be on the water during a storm. However, logic dictated to me that the boat low on the water tied to shore was safer than underneath all these trees. I got back on the boat, the storm worsened and then it happened. A bright flash and a huge crack instantly. Lightning struck less than 100 yards away from me... however it struck a tree on the shoreline, which thankfully was on the opposite shore from where my dad was seeking shelter there in that cove. My experience tells me that you're safer in the water if you've got a small boat that is lower to the ground than seeking shelter beneath tall trees. Unfortunately, a lot of the data out there about how to be safe on the water during something like this refers to larger vessels. However, I never have seen anything at all about the safety of us recreational small boaters, which comprise most of the boating population. Everything always reads, "get off the water and seek shelter", but what if that isn't an option and you end up like my dad and I were?

TELMANMN · Aug 5, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

20 plus years ago a friend and I were up fishing at Miltona lake in Minnesota. It is a fairly long lake and it was a nice day so of course we were out fishing. Always a coward(keeping an eye out for changing weather) we noticed the wind picking up and some lightning way off to the west. Discretion being the better part of valor we cranked up the old 75 johhny and took off for shore. On landing we saw the strom coming in but being young and foolish thought we would watch it come in. Went back to the tent, grabbed a few beers and went back to the dock. Being a hot day(yet) we put our feet in the water and watched the storm come in. Now this lake is almost 6000 acres and is longer than wide. The lightning was several miles away from the west side of the lake(farthest away from us) and we were watching the storm come in. Not really worried as it was still sunny over us so we continued to drink and watch. In a matter of minutes we saw a flash(still towards the west end of the lake, and lo and behold we both took our feet out of the water. In other words, to this day we have a great appreciation of lightning.

RollinNcanada · Aug 8, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

telmanmn, now you say you took your feet out of the water, if lightning did strike water, would you actually feel it, get zapped? and if so why haven't all the fish died since lightning must have struck the water at one time?! (if it does actually strike water!) Sorry if I sound kinda dumbfounded, dont know too much on this area, but a definate area to research!

nomad seagull · Aug 8, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

This happenned Up in Northern Territory Australia, 4 mates were out on the adelaide river in the wet season when a afternoon storm came throu,they decided to make a run for it back to the boat ramp,they started to motor and and 2 miles on when the rain started pelting down, a crack of lightning striked one of the blokes in the boat killing him,one other was burnt and the other 2 unscathed, so just beware evan when in the boat,and being a moving target

Hunky Dory · Aug 10, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

I sure appreciate all the posts -- this is a more mystifying topic than I'd imagined. I'm thinking, stay on the pontoon under the bimini, it's safer than dashing across the beach or hiding in the trees. Scary stuff...

Luna Sea · Aug 11, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

A couple of summers ago our area got hit by a nasty lightning storm. The next day there were several reports of strikes in the local papers, and a fire or 2. Anyways, I was out on my mooring on the old 46' Chris Craft I had at the time, hanging under the hardtop watching the show. I was watching the bolts hit the power line towers, the street lights on the bridge, the power plant stacks.... All of the sudden I was on the other side of the deck with my ears ringing, cacthing some debris blowing off the roof out of the corner of my eye. Soon as the storm ended a couple guys that were on their boat during the storm came over to see if I was ok, I said "I got hit by lightning right?". Went up on the roof, vhf antenna was gone (those were the splinters I saw flying) and the pivoting antenna mount (minus the antenna) looks like someone took a welding torch to the bolt! Still got it on my desk as a pen holder/reminder! Just throwing in my 2 sense...

starrider_68 · Sep 9, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

hunky dory, as far as lightning and the potential for strikes on water, the best thing I can tell you is that water (a VERY good conductor of electricty) also spreads out the "static charge" that a lightning bolt is looking for. I have been installing lightning protection for about 9 years now, and am still amazed at the power and randomness of it. 18rabbit was lucky in the fact someone took the time to investigate L.P. for water vessels. The N.F.P.A. (National Fire Protection Assn.) has set rules and standards for L.P. on ships and boats. That catalouge # is nfpa-780, chapter 7. It covers all watercraft and how to install the proper system for your boat. The N.E.C. (National Electric Code) also has standards for lightning protection. It is NEC 90 chap. 5 ss. 4. Hope this helps in understanding some of your question. http://www.nfpa.org

Stumpknocker · Sep 9, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

Well, it seems that there is an old wives tale for just about everything including lightning protection. The more you inquire, the more confusing it gets. We lose about 10-15 computers per year in the office I work in due to lightning strikes. An expert came out to review the building and property for protection. He is confident in his system and his customers say he walks the walk. Learned alot from him, but in order to get the "cone" you would be amazed at the things required. Chain link fences not allowed to wrap around the property, unless broken up with non metal stretches of fence such as block or wood where it attaches to the building. Break up the circuit he says. Doesn't much like the lightning rods, but uses a different system where the storm doesn't see the building, but views it as underground due to his "grounding" techniques. Waiting on an estimate, but similar businesses now report leaving all their pc's on during the daily barrage of lightning strikes and enjoying the show. Anyway, I think as far as boats go.... you just need to get "Cone" in a can from your local grocery store and enjoy the ride. I've tried to outrun the monster storms before and you end up beating feet back to the dock just in time to get your clock cleaned. Now I just ride em out and if my time is up.... hell I won't be posting anymore. If you are close enough to shore and want to duck under the nearest tree to enjoy the natural "cone" then make sure you have a will. I think if you make it... get in a car and enjoy your "cone" of rubber. Thats where the "cone" meets the road! Heres to all you coneheads out there! P.S. If you ever watched "Joe Vs The Volcano" with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan.... you know that sailboats have no "cone"! Awesome lightning bolt cuts the Tweedledee in half. If its in the movies... its gotta be true... right? So... buy your "cone" from the IGA and relax. We all have to die sometime. As you know... we are getting clobbered here in Florida by himicanes. The local TV raincoat airheaded talking heads always preach that there is no lightning during a himicane. Charley went through several weeks ago and in the Clearwater area some people went for a walk on the beach immediately after the storm and were killed by a lightning strike out of nowhere. Irony abounds everywhere. Trust no man on TV. Especially if he/she is standing in a storm wearing a raincoat. That is your first clue you are getting an idiot alert. Remember the philosophy of Milton Parker...."This too shall pass"

Elk Chaser · Sep 11, 2004

Re: Lightning danger on the water

Lightning protection systems do not prevent lightning strikes. They may, in fact, increase the possibilities of the boat being struck. The purpose of lightning protection is to reduce the damage to the boat and the possibility of injuries or death to the passengers from a lightning strike. NASD- Boating Lightning ------------------ The thing to remember is that there are no absolutes with lightning, on land or on the water. And when dealing with an element of such power, such energy and such unpredictability, a prudent individual will do everything possible to avoid it. Commander Bob ----------------- An Approaching Thunderstorm: When to Seek Safe Shelter Lightning can strike as far as 10 miles away from the rain area in a thunderstorm. That's about the distance you can hear thunder. When a storm is 10 miles away, it may even be difficult to tell a storm is coming. IF YOU CAN HEAR THUNDER, YOU ARE WITHIN STRIKING DISTANCE. SEEK SAFE SHELTER IMMEDIATELY! The first stroke of lightning is just as deadly as the last. If the sky looks threatening, take shelter before hearing thunder. Lightning Safety -------------------- Some of the best places to take refuge are enclosed buildings, or cars and buses (but don't touch the metal!). Isolated trees, telephone booths and open structures like gazebos or porches make poor lightning shelters. If there is a tall object nearby, move as far away as possible -- at least two meters (seven feet). Standing next to tall isolated objects like poles or towers makes you vulnerable to secondary discharges coming off those objects. Seek clumps of shrubs or trees of uniform height. Seek ditches, trenches or low ground. Do not huddle with other people. Fifteen feet is a recommended distance. If you are caught in the open during a strike and the hair on your head or neck begins to stand on end, crouch down immediately in the lowest possible spot and roll up in a ball with feet on the ground. Do not extend your hands to the ground or lie on the ground. Cover your ears to minimize acoustic shock. There's a common expression that lightning never strikes twice, but that too is a fallacy. In fact, it hits the Empire State Building about 25 times a year. As capricious and random as lightning is, it favors certain conditions and does tend to follow certain rules. If it hit a tree once, chances are, that's not a good place to seek shelter from lightning. Finally, suspend activities for 30 minutes after the last observed lightning or thunder. The National Weather Service (NWS) publication Storm Data recorded 3,239 deaths and 9,818 injuries from lightning strikes between 1959 and 1994. Only flash floods and river floods cause more weather-related deaths. Lightning --------------------------- Lightning Common Myths ------------------

Lightning danger on the water

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