Lithium ion batteries

[Bribass]

Hello everyone
I am thinking about investing in some lithium ion batteries for my boat. I was hoping to gain some information and knowledge about them before I go spending the money. What are your thoughts? Are different brands better than others? How many volts and amps do I want? Also can I use a lithium battery for my old mercury outboard? I am also just looking for general knowledge, thoughts, and reviews. Any ideas and knowledge helps. Thanks!

 

[bruceb58]

Personally, I wouldn't do it. You would have to buy a dual purpose LiFePO4 and then you have to get a DC to DC converter to properly charge it otherwise you will burn out the alternator.

If you are talking about getting some lithium batteries for a trolling motor set up, that's another story...you still have to get a proper way to charge them.

BTW...I love lithium batteries. I use them for my travel trailer. I actually made my own.

 

[Bribass]

Personally, I wouldn't do it. You would have to buy a dual purpose LiFePO4 and then you have to get a DC to DC converter to properly charge it otherwise you will burn out the alternator.

If you are talking about getting some lithium batteries for a trolling motor set up, that's another story...you still have to get a proper way to charge them.

BTW...I love lithium batteries. I use them for my travel trailer. I actually made my own.

Don’t they have a longer lifespan and also charge lasts longer? For my trolling motor could I just put it on a trickle charger? I don’t believe it’s hooked up to charge off a alternator.

 

[airshot]

LifePo4 batteries are designed for long steady draws, such as a trolling motor, or running lights, radio, accessories of every type. The hard quick draw of a starter is not ideal for the overall health of these batteries so it is not recomended. Powering inverters in travel trailers is an excellent use for these batteries. They do REQUIRE a specific type of charger designed for Lipo batteries, using a regular LA type charge could cause an explosion or fire. My particular LifePo4 battery runs my trolling motor about two/ three times longer than my old group 31 dual batteries and the Lipo does charge more quickly. Do your research before purchase, they are great batteries and only pennies more costly than lead acid deep cycle batteries, but you need to buy that special charger. If they suit your needs, you will love them!

 

[bruceb58]

You won't get a fire if you charge with a lead acid charger. The worst that would happen is that it wouldn't get fully charged. A lithium battery has a BMS which shuts off all charge current once a certain voltage is reached so you would never be able to damage them.

Don’t they have a longer lifespan and also charge lasts longer? For my trolling motor could I just put it on a trickle charger? I don’t believe it’s hooked up to charge off a alternator.

Yes...they last WAY longer...3000 or more
Just buy a charger made for lithium so it will get fully charged. A trickle charger would take WAY too long to fully charge a lithium battery.

 

[Pmt133]

Just to add... don't use the BMS as a crutch/rely on it to constantly save you. It's a safety. I've had a few responses to homes (well what was left of them) where people just outright abused batteries and uh... well fire. Granted, this was dozens of offenses and frankly Darwin always wins... but just follow what the manufacturer says and not your gut or some guy on reddit.

I love lithium too. Just don't be an idiot like those people and get real safety tested and rated equipment. It's almost always something in the chain or the user. It nearly never is the fault of the battery itself. It's a whole system. Treat it as such.

 

[Mc Tool]

LifePo4 batteries are designed for long steady draws, such as a trolling motor, or running lights, radio, accessories of every type. The hard quick draw of a starter is not ideal for the overall health of these batteries so it is not recomended. Powering inverters in travel trailers is an excellent use for these batteries. They do REQUIRE a specific type of charger designed for Lipo batteries, using a regular LA type charge could cause an explosion or fire. My particular LifePo4 battery runs my trolling motor about two/ three times longer than my old group 31 dual batteries and the Lipo does charge more quickly. Do your research before purchase, they are great batteries and only pennies more costly than lead acid deep cycle batteries, but you need to buy that special charger. If they suit your needs, you will love them!

Can I ask what sort of battery and charger do you have ?
I have not long bought an electric outboard ,45lb thrust but have not yet decided on what brand etc as there isnt anyone I know using lithium and if one relies on internet searches you wind up spinning out with all the contradictions and comments like " they are a great brand , if you get a good one "
Im thinking I want 100ah.....maybe two , and if I knew of someone happy with his outfit I probly follow that .

 

[airshot]

You won't get a fire if you charge with a lead acid charger. The worst that would happen is that it wouldn't get fully charged. A lithium battery has a BMS which shuts off all charge current once a certain voltage is reached so you would never be able to damage them.


Yes...they last WAY longer...3000 or more
Just buy a charger made for lithium so it will get fully charged. A trickle charger would take WAY too long to fully charge a lithium battery.

I don't have enough fingers to count the number of Lipo batteries that have caught on fire by using a ni-cad charger. And they burn white hot ! Can't put them out with water. Not all batteries have a built-in BMS. Search and you will find hundreds of stories/ articles about Lipo batteries charged with the improper chargers and go up in fire.

 

[airshot]

Can I ask what sort of battery and charger do you have ?
I have not long bought an electric outboard ,45lb thrust but have not yet decided on what brand etc as there isnt anyone I know using lithium and if one relies on internet searches you wind up spinning out with all the contradictions and comments like " they are a great brand , if you get a good one "
Im thinking I want 100ah.....maybe two , and if I knew of someone happy with his outfit I probly follow that .

I researched for almost 6 months, reading reviews and talking to actual users and ended up with a TimeUSB 140ah lifepo4 battery and the charger recommended by them. Bought thru the mfgr. they met the best prices I could find anywhere. Battery was on my doorstep in 4 days. They were very helpful with getting the battery setup and going. The battery has exceeded my expectations many times over. Run time on my 55# thrust trolling motor is more than twice the run time I was getting from two group 31 trolling batteries and at the same cost to replace them. LA batteries were 130 each, the Lipo was 260 shipped. Battery weighs 28#, where the LA batteries were 65# each. The BMS is awesome, keeps you up on current charge and how Kong you have to go and how long it will take to recharge, all on your phone. Warranty is for 5000 cycles and each cycle is noted on the BMS just for warranty purposes. There are lots to choose from out there, the TimeUSB has been everything they advertise, when I had questions they were quick to respond and very friendly. Service after the sale was excellent. Keep in mind that unless you have a newer electric motor, some of the older models can't run at WOT due to the higher voltage of the lipo batteries. These LifePo4 batteries are 13.3-13.6 volts where most LA batteries are 12.6-12.8 volts so long term wot operation can void any warranty. Many of the newer electric motors can handle the additional voltage without issue. Just something you want to check on...let us know what you decide.

 

[bruceb58]

I don't have enough fingers to count the number of Lipo batteries that have caught on fire by using a ni-cad charger. And they burn white hot ! Can't put them out with water. Not all batteries have a built-in BMS. Search and you will find hundreds of stories/ articles about Lipo batteries charged with the improper chargers and go up in fire.

LIPO batteries are a different story. We are talking about LiFePO4 batteries here. LIPO(lithium polymer) batteries are the ones commonly used for Remote Control airplanes and cars. COMPLETELY different.

Why would you use a NiCd battery charger on ANYTHING other than a NiCd battery. The voltages and voltage curves are completely different!

BTW, I am an EE with extensive uses of various types batteries including in electric vehicles when I worked for an auto company.

 

[bruceb58]

Can I ask what sort of battery and charger do you have ?

If your trolling motor uses 24V or higher voltage. Buy the lithium battery with the actual voltage you need instead of putting multiple 12V batteries in series. That way the battery balances itself.

If I was buying new batteries right now, I would be buying Epoch batteries. They are more money but built WAY better than some of these no name chinese batteries previously mentioned. This is especially important using them in a mobile application like a boat. You can buy then in 12V, 24V, 36V and 48V voltages.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I’ve got some LiFepo4 batteries. I have two 12.8 volt 50 amp hr for electronics, I have two 12.8 volt 100amp hr wired for a 24 volt T-motor on one boat and one 25.6 volt for a trolling motor on the other boat. I also have one 38.4 volt for a 3 HP36 volt electric trolling motor. I need three charging sources. Onboard 3 bank lithium compatible on one boat. A separate 24 volt charger and the 38.4 volt came with its own charger.
As for brands I’m three years in on my 12 volt ones and zero issues so far and I use them hard. Those are from a company called ecoworthy. The 25.6 and 38.4 both came from what seemed to be two different companies. When I got them they had the exact same paper work in the box. (Chinese) I tend to believe that 90% of these come from the same manufacturer, even those with more well known names slapped on them. I will say they are all working flawlessly so far.

Don’t be intimidated by lithium. They are just batteries and will give no issue if you use them per manufacturer recommendation.