Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

[turtle1173]

Hi all,<br /><br /> I am making a livewell/baitwell out of an 18 gallon tub. My boat is not setup at all for a livewell, so I'm doing the best I can with it. I mainly fish with shad.<br /><br /> I want to be able to have fresh water coming in (periodically) and have an over-flow so the excess water (and waste) leave as fresh water is coming in.<br /><br /> What I thinking is to have a hose hooked to the tub and a bilge pump hooked to that. I would just put the hose and bilge over the side and have a timer hooked to that. Of course, the over-flow is kind of self explanatory.<br /><br /> One of my main concerns is "where" to locate the spot where the water comes into the tub. Should it be at the bottom?? That way as fresh water comes in, it stirs up the scales and waste, then it will be more likely to exit at the top overflow. The problem I see with this is... will it automatically drain the tub when it is not running?? If so, would it be a good idea to install a check valve or something?<br /><br /> If the water comes in at the top, it would perhaps be better aerated but then I would also have to have a separate drain for the tub. I guess that wouldn't be that big of a deal and it would also solve the "water draining out" problem.<br /><br /> Alright, please let me know what is good or bad about this idea.<br /><br />Thank you all very much for your input!<br /><br />Shane

 

[DJ]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

Every livewell I have built, or seen, fill from the top and drain from the bottom. In addition to the drain, most had a standpipe connected to the drain (sort of like a toilet tank).<br /><br />The standpipe acts as an overflow and will drain out any floating debris.

 

[turtle1173]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

With a drain on the bottom, I'm going to need some kind of a turn off switch on there so I can drain the well at the end of the day. How would the standpipe hook into this so that it could drain all the time, yet the drain not drain all the water out?? I'm a bit confused I guess.<br /><br /> Let me also ask "why" a standpipe and not just a hole in the side that drains?<br /><br />Thanks again,<br /><br />Shane

 

[ED21]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

The water will fill up to & drain down to the stand pipe.<br />That way when the pump is not running the water won't drain all the way out. <br />I usually see the fill above the standpipe so it acts as an aerator too.<br />On my boat the standpipe is a piece of flex hose that has a fitting at the bottom(on the side) & a clip on the side of the box to keep it upright.<br />To drain the well I usually pull the hose off the fitting, but unclipping the hose from the side & letting it rest on the bottom will allow it to drain too.

 

[turtle1173]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

Thanks for the replies. I believe I'm starting to see how all this works. I hope you all don't mind a few more questions.<br /><br /> Does the stand pipe rest up against the side of the well? How big is the diameter of the stand pipe?<br /><br /> What kind of fittings do I need to do this?<br /><br /> I apologize for all the questions. I am very thankful for the help.<br /><br />Shane

 

[BillP]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

My baitwell is manually operated but pro rigs have their baitwells set up so the pump cycles every few minutes to provide fresh water. It saves battery juice and is quiet. The drain has a valve to adjust how fast it empties the water and cycles the fill. An auto float switch is used on the supply side.<br /><br />The standpipe on my baitwell is just length of pvc pipe that fits snugly into a standard plastic through hull drain fitting (3/4"). Mine is pressed in by hand and pulled out to drain the tank. I use the baitwell for an ice chest too, so the pipe is pulled out when using ice. <br /><br />My pump is a 750 gph on 25 gal tank. It has approx 10' of head pressure. 750 is overkill for my use and a 500 gph would work fine. I cycle every 10-15 minutes and keep 8-10 dozen shrimp or 3-4 dozen finger mullet alive 12-16 hrs. No aerator on mine.

 

[turtle1173]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

My rig (16' Starcraft) has never had a livewell or anything. So there are no hoses, pumps or fittings on the boat.<br /><br /> Will it be a problem to set up the livewell by just hanging the pump over the side? Or do I really need to put a hole in my transom? And what about the drain? Can that just be hung over the side too or will it have be routed a certain way?<br /><br />Thanks again,<br /><br />Shane

 

[ED21]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

The standpipe needs to be big enough to keep up with the pump. Wouldn't want the whole boat to become a livewell. <br />I've seen self contained livewells sold in outdoor catalogs. Try to find one & see how they do it.

 

[turtle1173]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

Ed, I've looked on the Internet and have seen pictures of these self contained livewells. The problem is, they are so "self-contained" that you can only see the outside of them <br /><br /> I imagine that if I have a 3/4 inch input for the pump, I might go 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 for the drain.<br /><br />Shane

 

[ED21]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

The drain on mine is about 3/4 or 1". The input from the pump is only about 1/2".<br />The aerator probably restricts the water flow too.<br />The pump looks like a standard small bilge pump except that it is plumbed through the transom to pull in water.<br />I don't think a large amount of water is needed, just enough to keep things fresh.<br />I guess you could hang the pump inlet over the side when the boat isn't moving, but unless you have a second pump to remove the water I'm not sure what you could do.

 

[Toontime]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

I built one that does really well. Have a 20 gal tub. Ran about 8ft of tubing to a 500 GPH pump from a fitting mounted near top of tub. Ran a 2 inch drain line about 6 ft long from fitting near top but below supply line. Supply line connects to fitting with a garden hose end allowing operation separate from the tank supply. The pump can be used to fill or empty the tank, empty the beer cooler, as an extra bilge pump or as a welcome shower when it gets really hot and a washdown device for cutting boards, knives, and clumsy fishing partners. Both pump and drain go over the side when using tank for bait, just plug it in and let it run. A sort hose covering the spray head can be used to divert water to the bottom of the tank to stir up scales and such but I'd recommend just using the pump to clean the bottom once in a while. The beauty of this system is versatility and portability. When you use more than one boat, it sure is handy.

 

[BillP]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

You can use one of the $10 portable aerators from Walmart. They use 2 D-cell batteries and last a couple days of fishing. I use one in my baitwell when we don't want to run the pump. The bait we use lasts a long time without water changes if we use the aerator. <br /><br />For small boats it hard to beat a 5 gallon bucket with portable aerator and manual water change outs with a bucket every 1/2 hr.

 

[navigator336]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

The basics for good tank design are:<br /><br />- Water enters from the top - and above the surface level of the tank water for aeration.<br />- Inlet ideally will have an adjustable nozzle to direct flow and for additional aeration.<br />- Return water is drawn from the bottom to remove scales, waste and low oxygen water.<br />- Tank is ideally round. Oval is O.K. Bait fish will, believe it or not, be less traumatized as they won't get stuck in corners.<br />- For hardy bait fish, changing the water periodically is fine, but for finicky bait fish (like anchovies) near constant replenishment is the way to go. The more oxygen in the water, the more active the bait will be.<br />-The drain pipe should be much larger than the inlet pipe or hose as the inlet is at a much higher pressure than the exit. For a 5/8" inlet, an 1.25" outlet or larger is good.<br />- The outlet pipe or hose should exit the tank at the level you want to maintain the water at (riser on inside). If the riser is on the outside, it's peak should be at the desired water level. If the discharge hose will terminate lower than the water level, a provision must be made to prevent the inadvertant siphoning of water out. Otherwise, when you are running, water can momentarily fill the drain hose and siphon the tank nearly dry. This can be done with an air bleed hole or by keeping the end of the hose just lower than the tank level.<br /><br />An easy way to empty a tank without putting a drain at the bottom is to use the discharge hose as a siphon.

 

[turtle1173]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

I sure thank you all for these replies. They are very helpful.<br /><br /> My last main concern is with getting the appropriate fittings. What exactly am I going to need to connect the hose through the well and secure it on the other side??<br /><br /> What will I need to make a drain that doesn't leak? Are these parts available from places like 'Lowes' or 'Home Depot' (some PVC fittings) or am I going to have find special fittings from somewhere else?<br /><br />Thanks again!<br /><br />Shane

 

[BillP]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

I was in Walmart yesterday and they had accessories and kits for hooking up baitwells. They also had pumps and aerators. They had everything needed for a full baitwell installation except the tank. I think most of the kits were by Attwood and prices as cheap as it gets.

 

[turtle1173]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

My local walmart doesn't have much more than the pumps and possibly the hoses.<br /><br /> Would you suggest the Attwood Adjustable Aerator Spray head to connect to the bilge pump? That seems easy enough.<br /><br /> What about the drain? What do I put through the bottom of the livewell? Then it needs to have something where I can attach the stand pipe.<br /><br /> Do you all use silcone or something on all the connections?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Shane

 

[navigator336]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

I would run the riser inside the tank, then the tank penetration is only at the top. If you spend enough time in the, generally highly organized, Home Depot PVC sprinkler pipe fitting bins, you can generally find what you need to do it. I'd start the riser with a piece of 1.25" sch 40 PVC pipe. Bond an end cap on it and drill as many 3/16" and 1/4" holes in the end and sides of the cap as it takes to make it look like swiss cheese. This now becomes the return filter. Run the riser up the inside. Get a 90 deg elbow with a 1.25" MPT (male pipe thread) on one end and a slip 1.25" on the other end. You've got to find one with the biggest flange you can as this will butt up against the inside of the tank. Now get a 1.25" FPT to 1.25 slip straight fitting, again with the biggest flange you can find. Now go over to the sink plumbing area and ask where the really large rubber washers (they'll be in bins)are and get one to fit snuggly over the Male threads. Drill the hole as close to the exact dia. of the pipe thread at its largest point. An adjustable wood boring bit will do it and you can adjust to get the size just right. If anything go a little too small. The washer goes on the inside with some silicone (the silicone won't do much because the fittings will always move a little). Put a generous number of layers of teflon tape over the threads once the elbow is inserted through the hole. If the wall of the tank is thick enough, the FPT fitting will tighten against the tank wall. If it won't, you can use one or more large rubber washers that you got in the sink section to "take out the slack". Buy the aerator head from Atwood and install it at least a couple of inches higher than the exit. Oh, and use a short piece of the sch. 40 pipe to bond into the discharge fitting on the outside. The heavy green or white PVC tubing Home Depot has will attach to this with a flexible sewer pipe coupler with hose clamps (back in the ABS sewer pipe section of the Depot). Have fun.

 

[turtle1173]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

Hey Navigator, thanks for the description. I do have a couple questions about it though <br /><br /> The way you describe it, it seems like you have the drain line running down the inside of the tub to the bottom, where it is capped with the holes in it. Is this correct? I'm having a hard time imagining how this will work without draining the whole thing. I must be misunderstanding it. I like the idea of the end cap with holes. <br /><br /> I really appreciate your description of 'how' to fit the pipes through the side of the tub. That will work well.<br /><br /> This seems like it will work good if you could just clarify the draining aspect of it.<br /><br />Thank you so much,<br /><br />Shane

 

[navigator336]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

Shane, <br /><br />The drain should start at the bottom of the tank because this is where the scales, waste and low oxygen water accumulates. To prevent inadvertent drain of the whole tank you have to do one of two things:<br />1. the other end of the discharge line must be kept at the desired water level in the tank (over the side of your boat, but not allowed to drop down).<br />2. an air bleed hole is put into the top of the 1.25" FPT to slip fitting which now becomes a vacuum breaker (if you do this, I recommend threading a little tube vertically into the hole so you don't get drips coming out here occassionally.<br /><br />For the most part, because you've sized the drain line much bigger than the inlet, the water draining out will never fill the drain line completely and a vacuum will not develop. However, when your boat pitches or your under way, enough water can slosh into the drain to completely fill it and that is when you can inadvertently drain the tank ( once the drain line is filled, it will create the vacuum until it is broken). But now you know how to drain your tank when you're done for the day. Either raise the drain hose above the level of the tank water and leave the bilge pump on for a few seconds, then drop the hose as low as you can and your tank will be drained in no time (to the level of the highest "filter" hole). If you use the vacuum breaker hole, you'll have to plug that while you drain the tank.<br /><br />I personally like the drain riser on the inside of the tank, because it is one less thing on the outside and the hole is at the top rather than the bottom. The bait fish don't seem to mind either! Because of the size of the MPT/slip elbow, the spacing between the riser and tank wall is sufficient for the bait to swim between the two.

 

[turtle1173]

Re: Livewell/Baitwell design - Input needed!

I went out and bought the pvc parts today. I still feel a little uneasy about this because I guess I don't understand the principle of the water flowing. Let me explain my thinking and tell me if this is the flow principle.<br /><br /> OK, with the livewell full, the drain riser will be full of water. It will only be as full as the bend in the pvc that exits through the livewell at the top. Right??<br /><br /> Now, when my aerator pump cycles and starts pumping more water in there, the rising water is going to start a vaccuum that will siphon water from the bottom and keep siphoning until the water level is again stable at the top. Is this correct??<br /><br /> How big of a air bleed hole do I need to drill in the FPT fitting? Do I thread a tube in that will go over the side of the boat or just a small tube that's a couple inches long? Still not sure about that.<br /><br />Thanks so much for the help. I can't wait to start the actual construction <br /><br />Shane