Looking for a cruiser

moosekoot

Cadet
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
18
Re: Looking for a cruiser

I have and do go on the lakes you will be going on and i think a nice 25ft older bayliner, four winns, searay, or whatever you may find would fit your needs. I have seen lots of guys with these kinds of boats out on weekends with their families and they are quite happy. Lots of the guys i run into are from Calgary. The lakes you have access to around Calgary and the interior of B.C. are suited for those size of boats. I was going to buy a 25fter but we live on the lake so a smaller boat works better.
 

NYBo

Admiral
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
7,107
Re: Looking for a cruiser

Bayliners tend to weigh a little less than other boats of the same size. While this means a slightly rougher ride, it makes them easier to tow.
 

Polar_Light

Cadet
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
15
Re: Looking for a cruiser

The sickness I'm referring to compels a man to throw thousands of dollars at a hole in the water. In return you get all the cleaning a guy could want, and an almost unlimited opportunity to empty your wallet every weekend.

Forrest Gump bought a boat. 'Nuff said. ;)

My wife is very efficient on "emptying my wallet" every weekend, so unstead of wasting my money in molls, I will be wasting them on a boat that will make my life a little less measurable.
 

Polar_Light

Cadet
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
15
Re: Looking for a cruiser

Bayliners tend to weigh a little less than other boats of the same size. While this means a slightly rougher ride, it makes them easier to tow.

I didn't know that, thanks for the advise.
 

JoLin

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
5,146
Re: Looking for a cruiser

Does anyone been comparing let's say 25 and 27 Sandancer? How big the difference is? I mean how comparable "roomy" inside compartments of these two boats are?
I guess 25 Sundancer also more narrow, so the room inside would considerably smaller. Am I right?

What do you guys think about having two engines aboard? I have noticed that many relatively old Sundancers prior to 1990 have two engines, but the most modern boats have a single engine. Is that a question about fuel economy or bigger block engines generally more reliable and last longer?

If you go to Searay's website, you can find archival data on all their old boats- specs, power options, weight, capacities, etc. A good place to start.

In the older models, you are correct that a 25'er will be substantially smaller than a 27'er. Narrower beam in the 25 means a lot less space in the cabin and head areas. As for the desirablity of twin engines, ummmm.... depends. For small/medium lake use, I wouldn't consider it necessary for redundancy purposes. However, you might find a 27' wide-beam boat to be underpowered with a single, but you'd need to try one out. As far as twins in a narrow beam boat- even if you find one, I'd personally shy away. There's simply no room in the bilge to work on them.

Now that you're zeroing in a boat brand and vintage, couple words of advice. Do yourself a favor and stay away from OMC I/O's and Ford motors. I/O's from Mercruiser and Volvo-Penta, and engines based on GM blocks, are preferable. Why? Though there's nothing wrong with OMC and Ford per se, BOTH have been out of the marine market for more than a decade. That translates to decreasing parts availability and technical expertise. Oh- if by some strange quirk of fate you stumble across a boat with a Yamaha I/O in it, run don't walk to the nearest firearm and just blow your brains out. It'll be a lot less painful in the long run. :)
 

emilsr

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
774
Re: Looking for a cruiser

My wife is very efficient on "emptying my wallet" every weekend, so unstead of wasting my money in molls, I will be wasting them on a boat that will make my life a little less measurable.

Then you're screwed. Welcome to the club. ;)

Crownline made a very nice 26-footer in the late 90's. Single big block, "sporty" cruiser. You could find a decent one in your price range. Will be all your truck wants to pull but you could do it.
 

Polar_Light

Cadet
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
15
Re: Looking for a cruiser

Thanks for the replay, I checked some Crownlines they are indeed sweet looking boats, and not as pricy as Sea Ray. Btw, rotted transoms and stringers are more common on Sea Ray boats? Just checked youtube videos most of them about sea ray boats.
 

JoLin

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
5,146
Re: Looking for a cruiser

No, IMO not more common in Searay boats. In my area you can't swing a dead fish without hitting a Searay or Bayliner express cruiser. The greater number of boats sold guarantee that there will be a greater number of that boat that have issues.

A surveyor friend of mine told me that he's seen more wet transoms in Grady Whites than in any other boat... but it's for the same reason. There are a million of them out there, and it's one of the most common boats he's called on to survey.

My .02
 

25thmustang

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
1,849
Re: Looking for a cruiser

Any older budget express will have the potential for rotten stringers and transoms. They were built the same way for the most part. The Sea Rays are abundant and that explains why you'll hear/see more about their rot.
 

emilsr

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
774
Re: Looking for a cruiser

Rotted transoms and stringers are all too common in many 80's and 90's boats. Brand isn't as much of an indicator of problems as how the boat was cared for. That's what a survey is for.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
29
Re: Looking for a cruiser

I'll try to give some perspective as you're exactly where I was 1 year ago.

The criteria, after beginning as a 22' or so cuddy, morphed into something that could sleep 4 and carry 8 but was still tow-able. In the US that generally means 8'6" beam or less so that was a key limitation. Like you, I was a first time boat owner and really never even drove anything bigger than a 20' open bow. We mainly go in the rivers and small lakes here in PA.

We went around the Great Lakes region and looked at several different boats. I wont get into too much detail on that except to mention a couple you might be interested in. The Four Winns vista 258 / 248 were nice and either would've fit the bill nicely, though the 258 was a bit roomier. We also looked at a Wellcraft prima 243 which was in the same class and seemed like a well made boat. I never got to see a Sea Ray but the layouts looked nice.

We ended up going with a Crownline 250CR. Its a single 7.4L with a bravo II drive. We got a 95 model but I understand the 98+ used better plywood. Like others have said, expect to fix things on a boat this old. I fix everything myself if I can so I wasn't too put off by this, but be aware of it. The worst issue I have with it is that there is rot in the deck above the aft cabin from where the helm seat bolts on. I'm going to fix it this year and it shouldn't be that big of a deal. We did have it surveyed and the rest was sound and the price was right. I did some work on the water and waste systems but nothing that anyone who can do their own household plumbing can't handle.

A short summary of my experience / lessons learned 1yr in.
#1. It took up every weekend. 1/2 working on it and 1/2 using it. I expect it will be like this next year too until all the issues are worked out. We trailer rather than slip, and will for the foreseeable future because working on it is much easier in my driveway than the water.

#2. I tow with a diesel F350. I think you could tow with a 1/2 ton but I wouldn't want to go very fast or very far. If you're in mountains that won't be a good combo.

#3. Launching is easy, but retrieving these things is dicey and not a 1 person operation. It took the whole season but the wife and I are finally getting the hang of it. Be prepared for a learning curve.

#4. Docking is easy, especially on the starboard side. Don't be intimidated or think you need twin engines. I routinely dock and tie up by myself.

#5. Engines: The 7.4L is enough power, but it isn't fast (~40MPH top speed). I'd expect a 5.7 to be downright slow.

#6. Props: I was looking for a bravo III or volvo dual prop. After whacking the prop twice this year I'm awfully glad I got a single, fixable aluminum prop.

#7. Power trim tabs: Get 'em.

#8. Gas hasn't been an issue. I use about 30gal in a long weekend, if we don't run around all day or pull people.

#9. We love sleeping aboard on the hook, and I wouldn't want a boat I couldn't do that on. 3 days is no problem. That being said the Crownline has a very big cabin and a smaller cockpit and if anything I feel like a larger cockpit would've been a better use of the space.

#10. We got a full cockpit enclosure (camper style). This has been a key feature. We rode out several storms comfortably with the canvas up, and one very uncomfortably when I didn't get it up in time. Now thunder = canvas.

#11. Another key feature has been the pump toilet with holding tank. I can't imagine a portable after 3 days aboard. Because there aren't pump stations where we boat, I got a "waste caddy" which lets me pump it out myself when I get home. I use enzymes and usually let it sit a couple days before I do it and it's not too bad.

#12. When shopping don't overlook the trailer. Mine needed lots of work that I didn't catch even though I was looking, and I had to get the boat off to do it which made it very inconvenient.

#13. Storage can be expensive, so consider it. Around here we have limestone mines. $60/month, humidity controlled and a constant 54F. Can't beat it, but our boat is about the biggest that can get in there.

So far we are happy with the boat and are looking forward to using it more often. This post ended up long enough and I'm sure I missed things but I hope this helps you make a decision you'll be happy with.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Looking for a cruiser

#5. Engines: The 7.4L is enough power, but it isn't fast (~40MPH top speed). I'd expect a 5.7 to be downright slow.
Just a comment about this. There are 300 bhp 7.4s, and there are 300 bhp 5.7s. The latter would compare favorably with the former, especially if equipped with a Bravo 3 or Duo-prop. There are also 385, and higher rated 7.4s (454 Mag) and 230 and lower rated 5.7s (Good ole 260 was 230 at the propshaft). These will be light years apart. Make sure you know what it is. Displacement is not the only criteria despite all of the oft repeated anecdotes.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
29
Re: Looking for a cruiser

Great point.

I couldn't find one with a hi-po 5.7 when I was looking but they are definitely out there. I had one seller who advertised his as a Mag but upon further inspection it was not. I wouldn't shy away from a standard 5.7 in something this size. I almost never go over minimum cruising speed and I don't pull anything other than a tube so I really don't need the power anyway. The only time I would say I ''used' it was to see if I could get on plane with 6 passengers (it did).
 

Alwhite00

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
885
Re: Looking for a cruiser

On my, 250 with a 5.7 efi/bravo 3 i have had it to 40 (gps) so it's not too bad for a small block.
 

Polar_Light

Cadet
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
15
Re: Looking for a cruiser

I'll try to give some perspective as you're exactly where I was 1 year ago.

The criteria, after beginning as a 22' or so cuddy, morphed into something that could sleep 4 and carry 8 but was still tow-able. In the US that generally means 8'6" beam or less so that was a key limitation. Like you, I was a first time boat owner and really never even drove anything bigger than a 20' open bow. We mainly go in the rivers and small lakes here in PA.

We went around the Great Lakes region and looked at several different boats. I wont get into too much detail on that except to mention a couple you might be interested in. The Four Winns vista 258 / 248 were nice and either would've fit the bill nicely, though the 258 was a bit roomier. We also looked at a Wellcraft prima 243 which was in the same class and seemed like a well made boat. I never got to see a Sea Ray but the layouts looked nice.

We ended up going with a Crownline 250CR. Its a single 7.4L with a bravo II drive. We got a 95 model but I understand the 98+ used better plywood. Like others have said, expect to fix things on a boat this old. I fix everything myself if I can so I wasn't too put off by this, but be aware of it. The worst issue I have with it is that there is rot in the deck above the aft cabin from where the helm seat bolts on. I'm going to fix it this year and it shouldn't be that big of a deal. We did have it surveyed and the rest was sound and the price was right. I did some work on the water and waste systems but nothing that anyone who can do their own household plumbing can't handle.

A short summary of my experience / lessons learned 1yr in.
#1. It took up every weekend. 1/2 working on it and 1/2 using it. I expect it will be like this next year too until all the issues are worked out. We trailer rather than slip, and will for the foreseeable future because working on it is much easier in my driveway than the water.

#2. I tow with a diesel F350. I think you could tow with a 1/2 ton but I wouldn't want to go very fast or very far. If you're in mountains that won't be a good combo.

#3. Launching is easy, but retrieving these things is dicey and not a 1 person operation. It took the whole season but the wife and I are finally getting the hang of it. Be prepared for a learning curve.

#4. Docking is easy, especially on the starboard side. Don't be intimidated or think you need twin engines. I routinely dock and tie up by myself.

#5. Engines: The 7.4L is enough power, but it isn't fast (~40MPH top speed). I'd expect a 5.7 to be downright slow.

#6. Props: I was looking for a bravo III or volvo dual prop. After whacking the prop twice this year I'm awfully glad I got a single, fixable aluminum prop.

#7. Power trim tabs: Get 'em.

#8. Gas hasn't been an issue. I use about 30gal in a long weekend, if we don't run around all day or pull people.

#9. We love sleeping aboard on the hook, and I wouldn't want a boat I couldn't do that on. 3 days is no problem. That being said the Crownline has a very big cabin and a smaller cockpit and if anything I feel like a larger cockpit would've been a better use of the space.

#10. We got a full cockpit enclosure (camper style). This has been a key feature. We rode out several storms comfortably with the canvas up, and one very uncomfortably when I didn't get it up in time. Now thunder = canvas.

#11. Another key feature has been the pump toilet with holding tank. I can't imagine a portable after 3 days aboard. Because there aren't pump stations where we boat, I got a "waste caddy" which lets me pump it out myself when I get home. I use enzymes and usually let it sit a couple days before I do it and it's not too bad.

#12. When shopping don't overlook the trailer. Mine needed lots of work that I didn't catch even though I was looking, and I had to get the boat off to do it which made it very inconvenient.

#13. Storage can be expensive, so consider it. Around here we have limestone mines. $60/month, humidity controlled and a constant 54F. Can't beat it, but our boat is about the biggest that can get in there.

So far we are happy with the boat and are looking forward to using it more often. This post ended up long enough and I'm sure I missed things but I hope this helps you make a decision you'll be happy with.

Thanks a lot for the contribution. In fact I am looking at the same boat that you bought. You explained many small details, especially I liked mentioned cabin/cockpit ratio, that might be a key for me, because I am planning to use for staying overnight. Huge cockpit wouldn't make any difference. But roome cabin is a great importance. Storage is not an issue for me, I will be paying about 60-80$ monthly, that will be ok for me, unless i lose job or something.
The only one thing bothers me, you said towing that boat with 1/2 track in mountauns isn't safe. Hmm, I am planning to go to the BC crossing Rockies, and there are 1300m crossing points. Could be dangerous if its raining due to lack of traction? Weather is mountauns is changing drastically and in general very unpredictable.
If that combo woun't be working then I will have to upgrade to F-250 disel, love look of that track. Still have some savings.
 

JoLin

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
5,146
Re: Looking for a cruiser

My last boat before Escapade II was a 1999 24' Chris*Craft express, and I agree with all the points Transamconvert made.

Power- mine had a Volvo F.I. 5.7 (280 hp) with duo-prop, and that combo had plenty of power. 40 mph was perfectly do-able with 2 aboard. A carbed 5.7 and single-prop drive is probably marginal in that size boat. As with everything, tho, much depends on how you expect to use the boat. My friend's 26' Maxum with 5.0 MPI and Bravo 3 (dual props again) seems perfectly adequate for him. We cruise in tandem often and he turns the same rpm's (3200-3300) at the same speed (24 mph) that I generally run. Was true when I was running my 24', too- my boat was faster, but it didn't matter much the way we use them.

Head- yeah, you DEFINITELY want a real pumpout head with a real holding tank. 2 other types are common in the 24-25' class- a porta-pottie and an 'installed' porta-pottie (MSD) with a deck pumpout. They typically have 2.5 gallons waste capacity, which is pretty useless for weekending.

Cooking- there are usually marginal facilities in a 25'. We did most of our cooking in the cockpit on a 2-burner propane camp stove. Was (still am) very cautious about propane storage (above decks) and I only carry one or two bottles aboard at a time.

Towing- I used a 3/4 ton Dodge Hemi 4X4 with the 24' and felt I needed it. The 1/2 ton might be adequate once you're home, but borrowing or renting a bigger truck to get the thing home would give you time to decide later if you need to buy something heavier.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
29
Re: Looking for a cruiser

If you like the big cabin then it's a good choice. It was the only one we looked at that a tall person could easily stand up in the entire galley and head.

The issue of the tow vehicle isn't really about traction but about control, braking and power. The Crownlines are heavy, especially with 80Gal of fuel and 40gal of water and all your gear aboard. You may find yourself seriously under-braked on a steep decline, and going up taxes the lighter duty driveline - especially the transmission. You could take steps like a weight distributing hitch, better trailer brakes, better truck brakes and a transmission cooler that would all help. I never towed with anything other than my big truck so I don't have direct experience. The previous owner used an F150 in flat Ohio without issues but didn't trailer far at all. If you're looking at Fords, beware the 6.0L diesel. Ford-trucks.com has a good board with lots of info. If I had to make that decision over again I would get the V10 gas engine since I don't put enough miles on for the mileage difference to matter and the diesel is much more expensive to maintain and is a bear to cold start.

Also, 4x4 is crucial. I can't get the boat up the ramp I use without the truck being in 4x4, even with a limited slip rear end.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Looking for a cruiser

26' Maxum with 5.0 MPI and Bravo 3 . . . seems perfectly adequate for him
I cringe when anyone says that the 5.0s are junk. This package will outrun all stock carbed 5.7s. Very capable powerplant with 260 propshaft hp. For planing a cruiser, I'd bet the 5.0 MPI plus B3 will outperform a 300 7.4 with a Bravo 1 or 2. Yeah I know, blasphemy :rolleyes:
 

emilsr

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
774
Re: Looking for a cruiser

I cringe when anyone says that the 5.0s are junk. This package will outrun all stock carbed 5.7s. Very capable powerplant with 260 propshaft hp. For planing a cruiser, I'd bet the 5.0 plus B3 will outperform a 300 7.4 with a Bravo 1 or 2. Yeah I know, blasphemy :rolleyes:

It depends on which 5.0. I had a 160hp(?) Carbed version in the early 90's that wasn't very spritely. I wouldn't want another one.

The 260hp efi that I had in our last boat was a runner though; almost 60mph in a 20' bowrider. Not particularly "torquey" so you can still use an alpha drive. Pretty fuel efficient as well. I miss it.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Looking for a cruiser

Yeah, I edited. I specifically mean the 5.0 260 MPI. Alpha 1 in a light boat runs great. B3 examples have very good planing performance even in heavier boats.

I think my point continues to be that lumping all engines of the same displacement together is very misleading.
 
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