Looking for a good Starchief

[still afloat]

Hi all!

I found this forum searching on the internet for Starcraft boats and had to join.

I've been wanting to find a decent Starchief for some time, but every one I've looked at so far has been battered and abused. I want one that's new enough to have flat windows, I prefer not to deal with the older wrap around plastic windows, I don't want any boat with prior damage or hull repairs, I don't want anything that's been shortened, lengthened, or converted from an I/O drive. It must be an outboard version.
I don't mind a project but I don't care to do any welding or riveting and I don't want anything that's been in saltwater or all corroded. (I had a 1996 Starcraft that turned out to be corroded down the keel and around all the transom rivets).

I've looked at about 20 or so boats over the past few months and all were pretty worse for the wear. One even had all of it's rivets coated in what appeared to be body filler, another was full of water and nearly collapsing over it's own trailer, another looked to have been hit by a bus and hammered back into shape.
I looked at another last weekend that had been bent so bad that the hull was curved to the left, the left gunwale was bent, the cabin was removed and on the ground, and the bow was dented in about a foot on the port side. Amazingly the seller made no mention to any of this in his ad.

I have a motor here, a great running Evinrude 110, which has very low hours on it, so I figure that an 18' boat would be best. I'm not far from Philadelphia, so it needs to be within a reasonable distance away from here too, I figure about a 100 mile radius give or take.

Not having owned one of these before, is there anything I should look out for?
I realize that I'm most likely looking for a 30 to 40 year old boat and things like wood and paint are most likely going to need to be replaced but are there any other issues with this model?
I ask this because two that I've looked at had cracks along the spray rail area towards the front of the boat. Those boats were pretty beat up but the fact that I saw two with the same damage concerned me a bit.

What should I expect to pay or what would be a fair deal for a good solid restore-able boat?
I have a trailer too. If putting one of these on a roller trailer is OK?

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

There's should still be that one in NJ.

 

[Gun Dog]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

I did a search last night I think it's gone.

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

Too bad you arent closer to Florida

http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/2499460132.html

 

[still afloat]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

I'm driving down to look at this one on Friday, hopefully it's still there:
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/boa/2530159995.html

The guy that had the one with all the cracks told me about it, but he seems to think its way over priced? I was thinking that one of these has to be worth nearly half that in just aluminum weight? I'm about an hour from the boat, but can' get off work during the day till Friday.
I talked to the owner, he just bought it but bought it for it's motor and trailer only, he used the motor and trailer on a glass boat he's got. He's got another trailer for sale but I think my bunk trailer would be better suited anyway. He said the boat is basically complete minus the motor, he said is needs seats and maybe a new deck because the rear corners are getting worn or soft. I like the seat set up in that boat, the seat boxes give some storage, put the tanks midship, and make a solid platform for two seats. Something those boats didn't have when new. He also said it needs paint but I sort of figured that any boat this age needs paint.

A buddy of mine though keeps saying that it's not worth more than a few hundred bucks without a motor or trailer but he found a 17' Starcraft glass boat with a 65hp and trailer for $300, but the floor is shot, the motor don't shift, and the trailer is a painted rust ball. He thinks its a great deal and runs it the way it is. Soggy floors and all. (He's got a rope tied around the motor so when or if the transom fails he can recover the motor).
I just don't think that way, when and if I find a Starchief I'll most likely replace the deck and transom right away, its just too easy a job to do to risk the hull running it with old wood.
According the owner of the boat in Vineland, the transom is still solid on that boat.
He said they hauled it down to some river and test ran it for a few miles to verify that the motor was OK, he said it ran great and had no leaks at all.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

It's not worth that with no trailer or motor. $500 tops. That friggin' boat has been passed around like a hot potato. I wish someone would give it a home and fix it up.

 

[bunker108]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

I am with you on the Starchief. What an awesome boat. After reading through wrfalpacas
Starcheif resto, I decided that hull is the best all around 18' boat there is. I want one
someday too.

 

[starcrafter65]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

There is a great CL aggregator out - www.craiggers.com - you can search the whole US of A for something.....you have to use google chrome as a browser though =- works great

 

[still afloat]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

I've been told $400 or $500 tops before but every $500 or under boat I look at, even with a trailer or motor is junk. Their either on painted salt rusted trailers or have an antique outboard that's not worth messing with anyhow. I looked at one today in PA that was only $800, boat, motor, and trailer. The trailer had 10" wheels and no lugs and was way too small for the boat, the motor was an old Chrysler 85hp that had no spark and nearly no compression. The boat needed a transom rebuild and new deck, along with a new back wall of the cabin. The worst part was the 117 holes drilled into the transom from past transducers and other bolt ons. The holes were filled with screws and silicone. It was last registered in 1988. The hull also had a rub mark and dent that ran from just ahead of the windshield to the transom where it had been dragged across a dock or pole. The steering was seized up, the cabin windshield was cracked and missing a piece, and the upper windshield and both side cabin windows were gone.
I didn't even make an offer, I don't care to deal with a boat in that shape. I'm not even sure I'd have hauled it home for free in that shape. There's a banged up 21' hull not far from here for sale that's got a bow dent almost a foot deep and the right forward gunwale is dented so bad the aluminum cracked. Another that I looked at for $600 had all the rivets removed from around the transom and they welded on a new aluminum panel and coated the seam inside and out with what looked like liquid nails. I looked at a 1995 Chieftain or Islander that had been dropped on the loading ramp, it somehow had a deep V shape dent upwards from the bottom into the transom/boat bottom seam. It too was coated with some sort of sealer.
There is just some damage that can never be made right, in my opinion, when the transom seam is damaged or repaired, the hull is worthless. I'm not talking about a replaced rivet, but a serious dent or crack.
The way I calculate value, correct me if I'm wrong, but a good galvanized roller trailer is worth about $2150 new, so half of that for a clean used one is a fair price, any less and it's a deal in my eyes. The boats were talking about are no longer made, so clean examples are getting pretty rare, so finding a solid, unmolested hull is important, and since the hull is really the only part you can't replicate or repair in a way that's not obvious or even possibly unsafe, finding a perfect hull is the most important part.
Does putting an old boat on a $50 junk trailer really make it worth any more? To me it's just another piece of junk to get rid of. The same for the motor. No one in their right mind would sell a $500 boat, or a $1000 boat with a perfect running $1500 motor, which is basically what one of these would need. You could easily spend thousands more on a new motor as well.
I sort of break down an old boat like this:
running motor, 50 to 140hp, $1500+ depending on year and type
Galvanized roller trailer: $750 -$1200 (single axle).
aluminum hull with no damage, prior repairs or cracks, $500 to $1500, again depending on the make, model and rarity.
In the case of that boat in the ad, it's got two 20 gallon fuel tanks, so there's $300 or more worth of tanks, the boat don't need a major rebuild to be run as is, so to me that steps it up a bit in value. Sure, if you want it to look new, its going to take a complete tear down and repaint will all new wood but to me it's just a good fishing boat that don't weigh a ton.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to find that minty clean, hidden away boat sitting in some garage for sale for $200 by someone that don't know a boat from a bean pole, but so far I've only found junk. In fact, I don't think I've looked at any aluminum boat yet that wasn't damaged in some way or severely over priced.

The guy selling the one in NJ sounded fairly knowledgeable and pretty much gave me a list of things it needs now, and things he'd replace if he were to keep it. The bottom line is that with a motor and trailer, it's a usable boat as it sits, I don't have to rebuild the transom or deck just to use it now. I don't have to be pretty, it just needs to float and get me to the fish.
Hopefully it's an un-molested hull that don't need a ton of work when I get down there.
I'm sure I can also make an offer, the worst he can say is no.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

It's not worth that with no trailer or motor. $500 tops. That friggin' boat has been passed around like a hot potato. I wish someone would give it a home and fix it up.

I looked at that boat in NJ, it's a nice boat but I just couldn't swing the cash right now, especially since I already own one.
I bought a cheap Starchief, but dumped over $2500 in it in wood, carpet, paint, epoxy resin, and fiberglass redoing the deck and transom. I had no choice on mine, everything was rotted. I'd have gladly bought that one in NJ for that amount if I had found it first.

$500 won't even get you a sea worthy aluminum canoe these days, I've got a 12' tinny leaning against the shed out back, I've turned down $1200 offers on the bare 12' hull. (I've also since chained it to a pole too.)

The way I see it you can't buy it new, and I'd bet that you could count the minty clean original Starchiefs left on one hand after 30 plus years of use.
Most people just don't take care of things, especially boats. I've found aluminum hulls with cracks, saltwater damage, electrolysis damage, dents, and all sorts of drilled or added holes. All reasons in my book to walk away. It's also been my experience that the later models seem to have more corrosion issues than do the older models. I've seen dozens of corroded through non lapstrake aluminum hulls over the years, all Starcrafts. That may well be simply that since they're newer, there is just more of them still left. I've not yet found an older Starcraft corroded through or badly pitted below the water line.
I also tend to look far inland for my boats, well away from saltwater, finding anything in NJ or there abouts in decent shape is rare, which by itself probably adds some value to a boat in that area.

What it amounts to is if you want one of these older hulls, you simply can't buy one new and clean hulls will no doubt bring a premium, especially from a seller that is willing to sit back and wait to get his price. I think that seller will do just that.
I have to say, there is no way I'd sell mine for that little even without it's motor, trailer or any of the new items I added.
A boat salesman buddy of mine told me once that the most expensive boat he's selling is the one he personally really likes. Meaning that if it don't sell, he'll gladly keep it for his own.

 

[Gun Dog]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

I've been told $400 or $500 tops

Man your expectations are way to high for your range. Sounds like you'll need to spend $5000 to make you happy. Don't expect it to be scratch free.

"It just needs to float" boats are $500 expect to do many repairs.

 

[tgp***]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

If an OB Starchief turns up for $500, with decent hull, I'd buy it, the rest who cares, no motor, rotted wood, no problem, everything is easy to replace on it.

 

[tgp***]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

This been on CL before...18' Starchief $1500
http://zanesville.craigslist.org/boa/2534453003.html

 

[still afloat]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

Man your expectations are way to high for your range. Sounds like you'll need to spend $5000 to make you happy. Don't expect it to be scratch free.

"It just needs to float" boats are $500 expect to do many repairs.

I don't think you understood my post, I don't expect a perfect boat, not even for $1500, but I surely don't want to deal with one that's been beat to death. I refuse to deal with holes, corrosion, and cracks in the aluminum hull. The rest I don't care about. Everyone I speak too, and the general consensus of some here seems to be that $950 for that one in NJ is way too high, but in my opinion if it's a solid undamaged hull, it's a steal. Like already mentioned, the rest is just wood. It's the hull that's basically irreplaceable in this equation.
That boat in Zanesville is a prime example, it has a motor and trailer but first off it's an I/O, second it's on a trailer that in no way would suit my needs. I don't see that boat needing a tandem axle trailer and any non-galvanized trailer is a waste of time to me.
If I find and buy a boat that has a good trailer, so be it, but I don't care to pay for a trailer that I'll only dump in favor of a good galvanized roller trailer.
I'm hoping that the boat in NJ is a solid as I've been told, if it is, I'll most likely be coming home with me. I did see that it's been flagged off CL again, I emailed the seller and he said someone keeps flagging it over and over for no reason. He put a new ad back up again:
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/boa/2536640504.html

Also, why are so many of these Starchiefs missing their upper windshields? I've looked at over two dozen so far and the one in NJ is the only one that still has it's upper windshield.

I do have to say, if and when I find the right boat, there would be no way I'd ever sell it for $950, or double that for that matter. The time and effort I've spent so far just looking at so many and driving all over this area has got to account for something too. I've probably burned $500 in gas over the past few years looking at various boats everywhere from VA up to NY and all over PA and NJ.
The majority of them were in PA or NY for some reason. Not many in NJ or further south.
So far not one had a hull that either wasn't severely dented, cracked, or corroded.
I'm not talking about minor damage, I mean 4" holes, dents so severe the gunwale was cracked, and one so corroded I could see sunlight from the bottom of the boat laying on my back through the pitted hull. The most common problem seems to be people coating aluminum boats with copper bottom paint and running in saltwater. The resulting damage is pretty much fatal in my opinion. I can deal with a loose or missing rivet, but a crack running from the bow to almost the center point of the boat along the spray rail or along the crease of a strake, that hull is destined for scrap.
Aluminum does funny things once it reaches it's fatigue point, no repair would ever be safe in a case like that, nor would I want to be bothered dealing with trying to fix a beat up hull.
There just has to be a decent, somewhat cared for outboard Starchief somewhere out there.

I also looked around at various motors listed, the going rate I see for anything half decent is $1500 and up, often WAY up. A good mid 80's or so OMC V4 seems to sell for around $1500, maybe a bit less if it don't have power tilt or for maybe an older version of that motor.
As long as new outboards are so expensive, used motors will continue to hold their value.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

Whenever these discussions come up, I always say that if you've done the research (and you clearly have) and the boat in consideration is fairly priced based on what else you've seen, then who are we to tell you if it's a deal or not? If you're comfortable paying it, go get it. You're looking for a very specific hull so when one comes available in nice shape, grab it. If you were looking at a wider range of boats, I'd be fairly certain something will probably come along with a trailer and/or motor for $1000-1500 but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

I think you're pretty much dead on with what you can expect to pay for a good used JohnnyRude. I would recommend you hold out for a model with power TnT. It makes a BIG difference. I've had both. A post-'78 motor if not equipped with it, can be retrofitted for a couple hundred with a used unit off ebay. A '73-'78 motor that doesn't have TnT will not be able to be cost effectively (less than $4-500) upgraded. Avoid '72 or older because of electric shift and/or old-style ignition system.

I was recently quoted a price of less than $1500 for a BRAND NEW single axle galvanized trailer from a dealer http://www.valulinetrailers.com/index.php?pageid=35

 

[crackedglass]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

What it amounts to is you get what you pay for in most cases.

I think that boat in Jersey is the same one I looked at a while back, it had a trailer and motor then, but the motor wasn't for sale. The hull was super nice, other than needing a repaint it was spotless. No dents, no damage, no loose rivets. The cabin was original inside and all the glass was good. The rear deck was supposed to be soft but it didn't feel bad to me. The owner was a big man, so most likely any 1/2" plywood deck would feel soft underfoot to him. The seat layout that someone built in that boat is the best layout I've seen added to one of those yet, but it does take up some room. It puts the tanks right where they should be for balance and give a little added storage. There is plenty of room to fish off the back of that boat.
My thought was that it would be a great boat to add a full enclosure to for winter use on a lake, river, or back bay. I can't believe someone hasn't given that boat a good home yet. It's probably the most solid one I've seen. Someone was using that boat just the way it is, so it's not some old derelict hull that's been vegetating in the field. The transom is solid and I see no reason why with a good motor it can't be put to use the way it is for the rest of the season.
A coat of paint and some new carpet would be about all it would take to make that a super nice boat again.

If I had room and some spare cash, I'd have that boat in my garage, but at the time I have neither to spare. At 9 boats here I'm well over my limit.

The trailer its on in the ad looks similar to the one it was on when I looked at it about a year ago, which was way more trailer than it needed. If I had bought that boat I'd most likely have put it on a much lighter trailer. The trailer it was on probably weighed as much as the hull alone.

Just to be fair, you can't compare the price of a Value bunk trailer to a full roller name brand trailer. I just priced a Load Right trailer for a 19' boat with 20 rollers, without brakes for just under $2500. If I wanted better lights, guide ons, and power winch the price went up almost a grand over that. I just sold a 1983, 2400lb non brake roller trailer by Load Rite used for $1500, it was listed for less than a day on CL. It was super clean and had new tires, bearings, lights and wiring. I got 20 low ball offers and one guy just emailed, left a number, I called, and he drove right over and bought it for the listed price. If I had listed it cheap I'd have only cheated myself out of the difference.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

I've been looking around at boats lately and those in the $5000 range tend to be worse than those in the $1000 range. Usually they're just overpriced $1000-1500 boats.
It seems that most who are selling a boat in the $1000 range seem to know a bit more about what the boat is and what it's worth, those selling a $5000 boat all seemed to be clueless as to what the boat needed or were ignoring its true condition.

 

[Gun Dog]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

I've been looking around at boats lately and those in the $5000 range tend to be worse than those in the $1000 range. Usually they're just overpriced $1000-1500 boats.
It seems that most who are selling a boat in the $1000 range seem to know a bit more about what the boat is and what it's worth, those selling a $5000 boat all seemed to be clueless as to what the boat needed or were ignoring its true condition.

I'll restrain myself and direct my comments about this post to mans best friend. Whoops, wait a minute she just put her paws over her head.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

I'll restrain myself and direct my comments about this post to mans best friend. Whoops, wait a minute she just put her paws over her head.

????

 

[Gun Dog]

Re: Looking for a good Starchief

5k boats are just 1k boats. People selling 5K boats seem to be clueless? Come on. Everyone's entitled to their op's. Just frustrated.