Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Bwana Don

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I need some help in picking out a kicker motor. I have an 18 foot Starcraft aluminum boat. It is a 1970 classic and I'd like to find a unique kicker for it.
I need a 20" longshaft I don't think a short one will work. This is a shame because I have found plenty of short shaft 1940's and 1950's motors for sale.

I really like the old Johnson and Evinrude motors. Did any of the 50's motors come in a longshaft? I need a 10-15 horse.

Any other off brands that you would recommend? Martin, Scott, Seaking, or other you would recommend. I need it to be reliable too, just in case.

Any advice is appreciated.
 

stevenj

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 8, 2008
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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

the johnson evinrudes mid to late fifties are easily converted, check out the aomci.org site and maybe post a want add for a motor you might be surprised.
 

Bwana Don

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Found AOMCI that's how I got infected. They have a swap meet in Northern Indiana the 20th of March I think. I'll go and check it out, maybe I'll find a motor. I'll ask on their forum.

When you say convert, do you mean from short to long shaft? If so how do you do it?
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

there is a 5 inch extention for the midsection. change drive shaft, water tube, shift rod.
 

cougar1985

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

my manual from 1939 shows a short and long shaft for my evinrude so you know at least that far back you could get either.
 

F_R

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Try to get one that will run on the same gas tank as your main power. That way your kicker won't sit for months with old gas in it. When you need it, you need it.
 

ezmobee

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Mar 26, 2007
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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Try to get one that will run on the same gas tank as your main power. That way your kicker won't sit for months with old gas in it. When you need it, you need it.

That'd be tough as he's got an I/O.
 

jasper60103

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

there is a 5 inch extention for the midsection. change drive shaft, water tube, shift rod.

As TD said, you'll need to keep your eye out for an extension kit like...

ext_kt.jpg
 

jbjennings

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Well,
Since noone else will make a suggestion on the specs, I'll give it a try. I can't stand it!:rolleyes:

I'd recommend a '55 - '57 johnson or evinrude 10hp, or even a 12hp gale seaking of the same years. Some of the sea kings even have a built in tank in the hood which I think would be handy (I'd like to own one:)).
Or, the '56 15hp johnson or evinrudes are just really nice motors. Particularly nice to me, though I can't really say why. They're just really smooth runners.
I'd not get a '58 10hp because I'm not that fond of the lower unit.
All of the aforementioned johnsons and evinrudes are VERY reliable. I own a '55 and '56 10hp and love them. ALso a '56 15hp rude and I absolutely love it, too. They have all had numerous tanks of gas run through them and I can say that I have NEVER paddled home (unless you count the time that I forgot to put the cotter pin in the prop nut and lost my prop:redface::().
Really, I wouldn't suggest buying a '56 johnson 15hp electric start because I want one myself and don't want any competition.:p
Since the motors above are pretty close to the best there is and probably ever will be, I can't imagine buying anything else if I were going to actually USE an old motor. ALso, a 7.5hp OMC from '55 to whenever are darned smooth motors and would make a good kicker too.
Later,
JBJ​
 

Bwana Don

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Thank you JB. That's the advice I was looking for. I also like them ole Johnyrudes, they look pretty neat. Good to hear they run as good as they look. I will run across one sooner or later and pull the trigger real quick now that I know they are runners.

Nice classic Ford truck you have there JB. I had a 54 that I brought back to Michigan from Wyoming when I got out of the USAF. I wish I still had it.

EZ is right I have an I/O, otherwise matching fuels would be the way to go.

Thanks everybody!
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Just as a reference, I use a 1969 Johnson 6hp motor on my 17.5 foot Glassmaster trihull (heavy boat). According to my GPS, it will push it at about 4.5 mph (statute) in light wind (small seas) at WOT.

I own several 6hp Johnsons, one of which is a 20" shaft. I also have a 1956 Johnson 5.5 that had a long shaft conversion, because I used it as an auxilliary in a 26 foot sailboat. Both these motors had the extension pictured above.

For your purposes, I would go with a sixties model engine that has a fuel pump, or an older engine that has been converted to a pulse fuel pump. Although you can still get pressure tanks for the older motors, they are kind of a pain to deal with and are of limited size.

I also agree with JBJ on the OMC 15 hp motors of the fifties. I used one a bit as a kid and still think they are better motors of that power class, than most of what is offered today. They are simple, powerful and relatively light in weight. Properly tuned and maintained, they are also extremely reliable, which is a very important consideration in a motor that may be intended to be your "get home for sure," motor!


???
 

rolmops

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

When you buy a 1950s kicker you should keep in mind that the short shaft is not 15 but 18 inches long.They may just work as is
 

Bwana Don

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Rolmops; I didn't know those motors were 18" shaft length. Thanks for sharing that with me. That length just might work. My 15" 2.2 Merc will hang just below the bottom of the boat when I fully extend the kicker bracket.

15 horse would be good in case I have to push against the current in the Detroit River. If I stick just to Lake St. Clair then I'll bet a 7 1/2 would do me good.

Jay; I don't fully understand the whole fuel pump and one or two line systems. I agree with a more modern type of pump though. If I get an old motor I'll look at converting it.

I've been lurking around the AOMCI website (http://www.aomci.org/) and I fell in love with some of them old motors. If I can swing it I'll go old school. I see they have a meet in Detroit on March 27, maybe I'll find something there.

Thanks all.
Don
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

The newer motors have a place to mount a pulse type fuel pump. This consists of two mounting bosses, with threaded holes to screw mount the pump to them and a third boss, which is simply a drilled hole that provides vacuum/pressure pulses from the inside of the powerhead.

I mention pulse type specifically, because some people try to put electric fuel pumps on outboards, which is a bad idea for a lot of reasons. By sticking with a pulse type pump, you avoid the problems and are able to use commonly availble parts from the OEM, Sierra, Mikuni, etc.

Many of the 50s vintage motors did not use fuel pumps. Instead, they used the two line system, one of which fed pressure from the crankcase into the fuel tank, thereby pressurizing it. That, in turn, forced fuel back to the motor, in order to feed the carburetor. These motors can usually be converted to pulse type pumps (there are different ways to go about this), which eliminates the need for a pressure type fuel tank.

The reason why this is a big deal, is because usable pressure tanks are becoming more and more scarce. They are also relatively small in size, at 5 to 6 gallons, for the most part. If the only thing you use a kicker for is trolling, this might not be that big a deal, but it can be if the motor's function is to provide safety backup, as well. The basic point is that you may need more than 6 gallons to get home, if you are a long way out.

If you have an outboard that either has a fuel pump, or has been converted to one, you have a lot more options in terms of the tanks you use. First, you can buy a plastic tank from iboats, wally world, etc. and you can buy them in a variety of sizes. Another possibility is to install a fuel valve in the boat which allows you to feed the I/O or another engine. With that in mind, you can keep a small tank of premixed fuel in the boat for trolling on the kicker, plus some 2 stroke oil in bottles for mixing into the main tank. Under this scenario, you enjoy the simplicty of the small, separate tank for routine kicker use, but have the ability to add oil to your internal tank(s) if you need to.

Obviously, the latter scenario becomes sort of a pain if you have one, 50 gallon internal tank. If you have a pair of smaller tanks, its not so bad, because you don't have to carry a large quantity of two stroke oil to get the proper mix for the amount of gas available in a given tank.

Look at it this way, if the I/O won't run for some reason, you use the fuel in the small tank to run the kicker. If that amount of gas gets you back to the dock or to a safe place, so much the better, because you don't have to worry about fuel contamination in the internal tank, being the reason why the I/O quit. What I'm getting at here, is that its better to get "in" on the separate engine with a separate fuel supply, if you can. Should that small tank not be sufficient, however, at least you have the option of going to the alternate fuel supply, if you have the extra oil aboard and you have an engine that can suck the fuel out of the other tank and use it.

I'm kind of laughing at myself right now, because I've written a bit of a "book" about all this, but the subject is one that I've thought about a lot. This is true because I boat in a place that you can get 30 -40 miles out into the "middle of nowhere," pretty easily. I have a kicker on my boat, but it isn't for trolling - its for getting me home, in the event that my main outboard becomes damaged or won't run.



???
 

Bwana Don

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Jay you make some good points about the gas and how to manage it. I boat on Lake St. Clair and may need to go a long way if my main motor dies. Getting home for me may mean a trek up the Detroit River and half way across the Lake St. Clair. I need to prepare for a 10 mile ride home on the kicker.

I've seen a couple of articles on-line about converting the old two line system over. I'll go that way if i get an old motor.

I have not seen a mid fifties 15 horse, 18 yes but not a 15. What years did they make the 15?

Thanks for the information everyone.

Found this link in another post;http://www.old-omc.de/start.html

Don
 
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F_R

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Concerning shaft length: The old OMC motors were a bit longer, but they were still intended to run on a 15 or 20 inch transom. They just stuck down in the water further. Raising them up can cause over heating and/or cavitation problems. Of course, that might not apply if it doesn't plane the boat. It then depends more on where it will be at slow speeds or when being lifted up and down in the waves. Just so you know.

15 vs 18hp--they are nearly the same size and weight. Will the extra 3hp bother you?
 

Bwana Don

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

Well I bought one. A 1955 10 horse Johnson.
Johnson101.jpg


spookyonchair015.jpg


The motor has not been running in over ten years but still turns over. The shifter lever is broken, everything else looks to be there though. It even came with the original 2 line pressure tank! $120 dollars for it all, I couldn't say no.

It's a short shaft but I think my kicker bracket will go down far enough to work. I will restore it and use it every chance I get.

Don
 

TN-25

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

You got a deal there, Bwana.

Dad always had a small kicker available when we went out on Lake Erie or Lake Ontario with his 16' Starcraft. Usually he used his weedless 3 but had run his old 9? as a kicker as well. Usually he used the kicker for trolling, but I remember when the big motor stopped running one hot summer day when we were out on Long Point (vapor lock perhaps?) We were glad to have a spare motor.

One thing that dad used to mount the kicker was a small auxilliary transom. His was aluminum with a wooden transom block. It had an assist spring and could be raised or lowered, eliminating the need to run a short shaft. If you are not scared of drilling a few holes in your transom and sealing it up properly this may be a viable option for you.

Those early 10s like yours had a few props available back in the day. My old catalogue lists 1951-57 10s sharing the same props (1949-50 isn't listed). The early 10s through 1957 shared the same lower unit and propellers with the 1956 15, 18s & 20s 1957-1976, plus 25s 1969-76. Of course there are different pitch dimensions offered so don't overprop it. I was thinking that your 10 might benefit from a smaller pitch prop when pushing that 18' Starcraft i/o. The smaller pitch would allow you to rev the motor and actually make the 10 horses it is rated for while also easing the strain on it. I'm just throwing it out there as food for thought.
 

bktheking

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Re: Looking for a Vintage Kicker

That's a smokin deal for that motor and tank, I just bought it's little brother the 5.5 for $50. Had the flywheel off today to discover all new hardware so $50 is an even better deal. Note the custom decals on mine lol

img3682k.jpg
 
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