Looking for some peace of mind

rcrew

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Jun 3, 2012
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So this is the situation. Ill start off by owning up to my OWN negligence. Im not going to be the guy that going to say " I let my brother/cousin/friend/dad/son use my boat and now there is issues" when they know damn well they made a mistake, but dont want to look foolish.

So we were on the river over memorial day weekend. travrling up mississippi river, againt current trying to avoid all out storm that was heading our way in the next 15 minutes. so we took off for marina 5-7 miles up river when my 1st tank had run out of gas. so i connected my back up tank that still had just a wee bit of premix left in it before fill up. Long story short, storm set in, in a panic, i connected to 2nd tank w/o putting oil mixture in. keep in mind middle of river and storm with 50mph winds, I was able to make it to a nearby shore to wait it out. Just to be safe we re-crossed the river to get gas, but while doing so, the engine cut out 2-3 times. after re-fueling, with oil this time, all was well and we continued up river, come to find out at same time storm kicked back up and we were taking on a bit of water. it seemed even with WOT, we were only moving about half speed. So in about a 3 mile stretch, we burned though almost all 6 gallons of gas. weather got worse so we beached it and went to knock on neigbors door.

when we go home, i noticed the prop was all mangeled beyond belief. i think it might have been something i hit in the water, b/c the engine jumped when were headed down river. so im wondering if this is the cause of my poor hp on return trip, and not something that may have happend by gas/oil issue. twice since i have started the engine with muffs, and both times it started right up, maybe even quicker than before. also before it seemed to have a sight misfire, but know there is none. dunno if it has anthing to do with the fact when i muffed it the engine if trimmed all the way out.

Any ideas as far as the poor hp on the way back, could the water in the hull, bad prop, or going up river contribute to these issues. i have included a pic of the prop.

thanks in advance
 

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Bob's Garage

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

I hate 1 word answers. But I don't want to be condemning and can't think of anything encouraging to say, so here it is in a "nut shell".

Yes!!
 
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rcrew

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

is that a yes to compression/cylinder issues, or yes to complilation of water in hull and prop mangeled prop.
 

Bob's Garage

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

It is all inclusive.

If you are concerned about damage to the cylinders then run a compression test. You can do it yourself and it's cheap and easy.

Replace the prop, install a bilge pump (it can be a temporary install if appropriate for the boat), get a larger fuel tank for the reserve w/oil mix, and then re-run the same course.

This will give you a comparison.

Running up river is a huge factor in fuel consumption and should have been factored in at the beginning of your trip.

The questions you ask, as well as your actions lead me to believe you have not taken a boating course. Do it!

You endangered everyone's life on your boat due to your actions. You need to be better prepared as YOU are the Captain of your "ship' with all the responsibilities that title implies. Size of the vessel doesn't change that status.
 

rcrew

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

i honestly appreicate your input Bob, i have taken the course. it wasnt a matter no not being prepared, although yes i should have mixed oil before i left dock, but the other circumstances made it difficult to think with a clear head. The flash storm just mucked everything up, and i panicked. there was 0 percent chance of rain that day. The prop got chewed up on god know's what. since, new bilge has been installed, new prop with a back up. i carry 2 6.6 gallon fuel tanks. i had once for the ride down, and one for the ride back, also topped of the first tank. so in that aspect my planning was fine. thats why i assuming the prop may have and issue with burning so much gas.
 

5150abf

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

You can get a compression gauge for $20-$25 and do a test yourself to make sure that isn't the reason and certainly replace the prop, I am pretty sure you hit something pretty substantial, if the comp test comes back good run it with the new prop and se if it is good.

The number you get isn't as inportant as all cylinders being within 10% of each other, "good" compression depends on the engine, some are 140+, others are 90.
 

rcrew

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Thanks 5150. that is on my list of things to do tomorrow. with the fact that the engine has started up twicw w/o any issues be any indication that i didnt score a cylinder until i get the comp test done?
 

Bob's Garage

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

i honestly appreicate your input Bob, i have taken the course. it wasnt a matter no not being prepared, although yes i should have mixed oil before i left dock, but the other circumstances made it difficult to think with a clear head. The flash storm just mucked everything up, and i panicked. there was 0 percent chance of rain that day. The prop got chewed up on god know's what. since, new bilge has been installed, new prop with a back up. i carry 2 6.6 gallon fuel tanks. i had once for the ride down, and one for the ride back, also topped of the first tank. so in that aspect my planning was fine. thats why i assuming the prop may have and issue with burning so much gas.

Sorry to disagree. You were not prepared. You were lucky.

Don't know what course you took but any course worthy of the name would have explained the 1/3rd rule. And being "prepared" means being ready for any eventuality, including bad weather, obstructions, fuel managerment.

But hey, maybe you missed that part, or maybe you took the "online course" which only gets you a certificate, not the benefit of shared knowledge that a "proctored" course would, or should , provide.

Also, the information a good course provides, would have prepared you and given you the knowledge to avoid the "panic".

You made wrong choices and your actions both before and during the "event" only proves you were not "prepared". The sooner you admit to this short coming the sooner you will begin learning from the mistakes you made.

I am leaving the podium now.
 

rcrew

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Bob, some would find you remarks rude or even stand offish, i dont. i appreciate your knowledge. i did take the online course and read the book dist by local CG, and apprently i should have found an instructor lead course. Ill admit you are RIGHT. I wasnt as prepared as i thought i needed to be. I have learned from that, and corrected the situations. That is why i am ASKING for help, to LEARN, apprently i need more. You guys have prob doing this longer than i have been alive.
 

Bob's Garage

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Bob, some would find you remarks rude or even stand offish(correct), i dont. i appreciate your knowledge. i did take the online course and read the book dist by local CG, and apprently i should have found an instructor lead course. Ill admit you are RIGHT. I wasnt as prepared as i thought i needed to be. I have learned from that, and corrected the situations. That is why i am ASKING for help, to LEARN, apprently i need more. You guys have prob doing this longer than i have been alive (even more correct).

I refer you to my signature. :rolleyes:
 

jestor68

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Thanks 5150. that is on my list of things to do tomorrow. with the fact that the engine has started up twicw w/o any issues be any indication that i didnt score a cylinder until i get the comp test done?

A real life example: One of my jet skis suffered the same fate. Refueled from the wrong can and ran for 20 minutes before I could get my hands on it to add oil. It ran for the rest of that season and most of the next before it finally lost compression in one cylinder. Initially,the compression loss was only about 5 lb difference. But it gradually got worse.

I'd suggest checking it every so often throughout the season to see if it's holding. If it doesn't show any loss thru the season, you may have dodged the bullet.
 

rcrew

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

what were the symptoms of the lost compression, stall outs, no hp,sluggish performance?
 

tincanman

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

I did the same thing in my younger years. Grabed the wrong 6 gal tank and set out in my old 70 rude. My situation was cut and dry. About 10 min of running fine and she sputtered and locked up on the spot. I ended up with a cracked block, warped heads, and a very expensive paperweight. Hard lesson learned, especially since I was around 18 and had to work for a very long time part time to buy that outboard.

hope all works out for you better than it did for me.
 

rcrew

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

once it locked up, did it not want to start anymore. as i advised prev. mine started up today like a champ, no issues and no back firing.
 

tincanman

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

yup, once she locked up, she was done. A siezed motor will not start. You are way better off than I was. Run out to your nearest store and buy a cheap compression tester. Only way to see where you stand. .
 

tincanman

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

running your motor on a hose or in a test tank will not tell you the whole story. You are not running under load, and it could sound like it's running ok when its really not.
 

Philster

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Thanks 5150. that is on my list of things to do tomorrow. with the fact that the engine has started up twicw w/o any issues be any indication that i didnt score a cylinder until i get the comp test done?

A worn engine can start much easier and faster than a fresh one.

I'm not saying you toasted it, but don't assume it's okay because it fires up easy.

Compression numbers matter, not just the fact that they are within 10% of each other, but that's moot now, because you don't have a baseline. If you knew at the start of the season they were around 135 each, and and they suddenly came back at 115 each, you'd know you had serious wear and shortened your engine's life and performance.

The rule about being w/in 10% of each other is to determine if normal and consistent wear is occurring. A cylinder that is 110 while the rest are 135 means something is leading to serious trouble, so there might be a carb issue causing a lean condition, leaky cylinder head, etc.

The most telling thing about an engine's power and piston/cylinder sealing abilities is told under load, and load is the most real under acceleration. In a boat, that's serious load. Just like a truck pulling a trailer up hill. Problems (weak engine) will show up.
 

rcrew

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

what should the plugs look like after pulling them?
thanks again for the help tin
 

Philster

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

The plugs should look dry and dull grey because you were in the process of killing them.

Probably should forget what they'd look like new or under normal circumstances.

Toss 'em.
 
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Home Cookin'

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Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Re: Looking for some peice of mind

Chewed prop--replace. Consider a SS prop although some rock-bottom boaters say they'd rather break the prop than the drive shaft. Personally I think the bushing covers that, as does the skeg somewhat. But I'm a soft-bottom boater where SS is SOP. You rs looks more like one that was ground down running against a hard bottom like a ramp rather than an isolated strike. See if the skeg is broken/worn down and not protecting the prop.

Water/too much weight in hull--yes a problem. Consider whether you can run your boat plug-out to bail. Learn how to trim to avoid water (including shifting the passengers). Get a pump set up w/ a float switch even if it's always kept on a trailer.

Engine: I fried a 70 Johnson w/ no oil (VRO). It did not seize, but overheated and ran down. When it was coooled it would start fine but once it got heated up (w/ oil this time) the damage showed itself and it would run down again. So don't be fooled by it starting. Likewise, compression may show there are no "leaks" just turning over, but doesn't address heat damage at a higher range. PS I rebuilt the Johnson and ran it for several years until an unrelated problem took it out.

Fuel: ALWAYS put the oil in with the gas, immediately. In fact, you should add the oil first, to mix it, to have enough room for it, and to avoid operator error again. NEVER use boat cans to store gas w/out oil unless clearly marked. At my hunt club we have 2 tanks for a motor that does not pre-mix; I have large wooden labels tied to the handle with "GAS ONLY" burned into it.

Boat: you've learned a bit about what your boat handles, and doesn't. Too many fair weather boaters never get in the soup and don't knwo what to do when the bad stuff hits. I advise people to purposely take the boat out in adverse conditions, or head for some rough water, big wakes, etc., when you can do so safely to learn its capabilities.

Experience: Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. You may have done some things you shouldn't have, but you learned from it. We all do. I say, if I didn't learn something new every time I go in the boat, I wasn't paying attention. That's after >50 years in them.
 
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