Looking for the good kicker motor

[ozenine]

Hi Guys,
I am looking for the good kicker motor. I am not fishing a lot, so need it basically only for the emergency situations.
My budget is up to 300. I have 16 ft aluminum Starcraft.
Another thing is taht i do not want tooverload the transom, but not sure what is "overloading" for my boat.
Somebody suggested the 4-15 hp Johnson 70s and up. Any more specifics? Things to watch out for?

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

a 15 2 stroke is going to be about 75 lbs..that seems like a lot of extra weight on a 16 foot boat....is the boat aluminum????

whats the HP capacity of the boat?

what motor is the main motor right now?

I take my kicker along and dont mount it on the transom bracket till it is needed... I hate all that weight back there..I have a 22 foot aluminum boat and my kicker is a 15...but I have used a 6 hp as well...which pushed me about 5-6 mph max

good luck

bob

 

[ozenine]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Sorry, should have put all taht info:
Hull Rated for 85 hp. It is Aluminum.
Currently it has 40 hp Force that does not run, so I will be looking for 65-85 hp Evinrude.
I was told that 9.9 is similar weight that 15 is. So I should not look at even 9.9?

 

[Rick.]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Here is some information you might find interesting. We were just out for a week of mostly trolling. We were in a 17.5 foot Spectrum with the top up and sides (it was cold). We trolled mostly at between 1.9 and 2.8 MPH with an old 1973 Johnson 4HP. The motor was at approx. 1/2 throttle and moved us very well. The weight of it is less than 40lbs. and we figured our fuel consumption to be one liter per hour of trolling. Best of luck. Rick.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Sorry, should have put all taht info:
Hull Rated for 85 hp. It is Aluminum.
Currently it has 40 hp Force that does not run, so I will be looking for 65-85 hp Evinrude.
I was told that 9.9 is similar weight that 15 is. So I should not look at even 9.9?

that was the EXACT reason I got a 15 instead of the 9.9!!

if i am going to put "X" weight on the back I might as well get the most thrust for the weight as i can.

the only thing that varies the weight on 9.9 and 15 hps, is the lower unit length and if it is electrical start and or remote control..

bob

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Here is some information you might find interesting. We were just out for a week of mostly trolling. We were in a 17.5 foot Spectrum with the top up and sides (it was cold). We trolled mostly at between 1.9 and 2.8 MPH with an old 1973 Johnson 4HP. The motor was at approx. 1/2 throttle and moved us very well. The weight of it is less than 40lbs. and we figured our fuel consumption to be one liter per hour of trolling. Best of luck. Rick.

thats fine and good info, but for an emergency use motor...you need to be able to fend off a stiff wind and still make headway..

that is why i decided to go bigger than my 6 hp which would push me 5-6 mph in calm conditions!!!

what happens when it is blowing 15 mph!!!! and your boat is a big sail????

while i am here, what is the fastest guys normally would troll at???

bob

 

[mikesea]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

I suggest either the 9.9 or 15.The performance differance is not near that much should a nice 9.9 come along for your price.Ive owned many of both and worked on both.Is there a differance,yes.I promise its not worth passing up a 9.9 for a 15

 

[ozenine]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Ok, so to sum it up
- 4hp+ will work
- We are not sure if extra 75 pounds on transom is ok

How heavy is say 4-6 hp?

What yars should I be looking at? How about 1970 +?

 

[TN-25]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

I would look for a 9.9, 1974-on. The manual start version weighs 65 lbs (the 9? turtlebacks weighed 60). Since the 9.9 & 15 have the same displacement powerheads, the torque at low to mid throttle should be the same for both. Now a larger diameter, shorter pitch prop will help that kicker operate at the recommended full throttle operating range. I don't know offhand if there was a difference gear ratio on the Sailmaster 9.9, but if there was no difference in gear ratio then a Sailmaster could donate its prop to a regular 9.9 to help it work efficiently as a kicker.

An old 4 from 1969-1982 would weigh about 32-35 lbs; a 1965-1979 6 would weigh 51 lbs. (plus tank).

 

[1kruzer1]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

I would add that when looking at the 4, 6, or 9.9 that a gearshift is nice. The 4 hp JohnnyRudes don't have reverse, and it can be a bit clumsy spinning the motor around for reverse when you're leaning out over the transom well. I also use my 6HP kicker a lot for fishing, so if you're just looking for auxillary power that might not matter too much to you. If your transom is in sound shape I wouldn't worry too much about the kicker weight if your primary motor is a two stroke. Even the old Starcrafts (mine's the same thing in a '76 Sylvan) have a pretty strong transom. You said you have a budget limit of $300. Here in Minnesota that won't get you much of a 9.9 unless you get very lucky. With that price limit you may have to stay with a smaller and older model.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

In the sizes you're looking at, HP doesn't make any difference, since the boat will not go any faster than hull speed (typically 6.5 to 7 knots for most hulls), regardless of power setting. This holds true with the only exception being if the motor can plane the hull. I used a 6HP Johnson on a 19' Sea Ray for many years ... used it mostly for trolling. GPS confirmed the 6.5 k deal @ WOT on the little motor. I would stay small (and light).

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

well I have no idea how it got SUMED UP that 4 hp would work!!!!!!!! ha ha ha

for a person wanting a kicker for emergency, then it is ackowledged that motor will be the only source of power to get p back to the ramp or safety..

and to think that on a very windy or worse day, that a 4 hp can move you against the wind in your boat is being niave.

it makes a great econmic trolling motor sure...because if it is really windy, you just choose to not use it!! all is fine....

good luck

bob

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

You could hang a 25HP as a kicker, and if it can't plane the boat, will not go any faster than hull speed, period. A bigger motor certainly will produce more thrust, which will be helpful in a head wind situation, but not more speed ... that's the nature of hull speed.

BTW, the little 6HP did just fine trolling into 25 knot headwinds ... did it many times on a big lake in Maine.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Sorry, should have put all taht info:
Hull Rated for 85 hp. It is Aluminum.
Currently it has 40 hp Force that does not run, so I will be looking for 65-85 hp Evinrude.
I was told that 9.9 is similar weight that 15 is. So I should not look at even 9.9?

well you are getting a lot of advice, experience is good..

id add that you need to look at the place or places you boat...I brought up wind as a determining factor buty CURRENT is something else and probably harder to over come than the wind, then combine them....you just may not realize the benefit of your kicker when you really needed it.

what is your safety net aspect on boating???

do you fish places with current? like the ocean???

in a river I guess, just getting to the bank would get you safe most of the time, if not back to the ramp..

do you realize that it is possible that an 85 evinrude that weighs about 315 lbs is a LOT LOT heavier than your 40.

you could keep the lighter 40-50 hp and add your kicker and still be lighter than just an 85 on the back..

I am experimenting with kickers myself right now..I am going this weekend to try a different prop on the 15 hp...to see if i can get more speed than 7 mph.... 11X6 , the last prop was 9 1/4 x 8....

bob

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Bob, you're wasting your time and money. For a conventional hull (i.e. not a canoe, catamaran, etc.) and prop or power won't make any real difference. My current boat has T 175 E-Tecs (23' heavy WA) and I can tell you absolutely, 6.8 knots @ WOT on one motor is top speed, period, since one motor will not plane the boat. The boat, on both motors does well over 40 knots. I was hoping one motor would plane, but it ain't happenin'. Boats that are longer have a slight advantage, since the hull speed relationship is related to the square root of waterline length, so a 30' boat will have a slight advantage over a 20' one, but not much.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Bob, you're wasting your time and money. For a conventional hull (i.e. not a canoe, catamaran, etc.) and prop or power won't make any real difference. My current boat has T 175 E-Tecs (23' heavy WA) and I can tell you absolutely, 6.8 knots @ WOT on one motor is top speed, period, since one motor will not plane the boat. The boat, on both motors does well over 40 knots. I was hoping one motor would plane, but it ain't happenin'. Boats that are longer have a slight advantage, since the hull speed relationship is related to the square root of waterline length, so a 30' boat will have a slight advantage over a 20' one, but not much.

thanks for the tips..I certainly can always use tips that keep me from wasting money..

but the prop I am trying now comes from a 15 hp 4 stroke i have.. and the previous prop was bought for $15 (used) because the one on the motor when i got it was spun!!!

Ill also use the motor for small marsh boats i have as well...so a selection of props wont be a bad thing.

I am kinda hoping that since my boat drafts so little water, I might be able to maximize the extra push to get me to the top hull speed not on plane you speak of( didnt know if before you posted evn though i know I wasnt getting on plane).

my 20.5' (22.5' with welded flotation pods) floats in about 6 " of water maybe less with a 115 hp johnson on the back of a 10" jack plate..

your info could have been usefull BEFORE I went out and bought the 15hp 2stroke motor for the main purpose of a kicker!!!!!!!!!!!!!

since I already had the 6 HP for many years..

but i might as well go check what i can get with all my combos, and then decide if the extra 2 or maybe 3 mph is worth carrying the extra weight around all the time.


although I am having toruble grasping the total belief of your theory on hull speed not on plane...

I can trim out my motor( on several boats) and PLOW water bow high up to 10-12 mph maybe a little more....and the boat isnt on plane...and it is totally unefficient...but it is going fast!!! hp is doing that!!!

the funny thing when my boat sits on the water, it is in almsot the same relationship as it is when it is on plane...it floats that high!!!

I am THINKING I could get on plane in 50 feet with my boat from a standstill...guessing now...

would you still think i could benefit from more thrust??

Ill find out saturday anyway

bob

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Bob, it's not my theory. I used to sail a lot and people who sail are very much up on the concept of hull speed. It's the limiting velocity for a given hull design short of planing. Very long, narrow displacement hulls have somewhat higher hulls speeds.

You may find these links interesting:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/hull-speed-1220.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed

 

[ozenine]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

well you are getting a lot of advice, experience is good..

id add that you need to look at the place or places you boat...I brought up wind as a determining factor buty CURRENT is something else and probably harder to over come than the wind, then combine them....you just may not realize the benefit of your kicker when you really needed it.

I do not have any plans to go to the rivers - I am not even sure if there is any rivers around that are boatable.

what is your safety net aspect on boating???

do you fish places with current? like the ocean???

in a river I guess, just getting to the bank would get you safe most of the time, if not back to the ramp..

Nope, just lakes.

do you realize that it is possible that an 85 evinrude that weighs about 315 lbs is a LOT LOT heavier than your 40.

you could keep the lighter 40-50 hp and add your kicker and still be lighter than just an 85 on the back..

Yep, but I also want to have a bigger motor at the back - 40 is not enough. It is good for short term, but I will be looking at 85 Evinrude pretty soon.
So ultimatelly I will have 85 hp and kicker on the back.

Thanks for all your replies.
I am narrowing down to 6-9, 15 hp motor that is 1975 plus.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

I'm going to use my 5.5hp '55 Johnson as a kicker(I have thesame exact rig as Oz), it should be plenty to get in to the ramp unless I'm in 3-5ft swells and high winds.

Keep in mind that the carbs can be swapped out to make the 9.9 a 15 pretty easily depending on the year.

I'm not too worried about weight, even with my 80hp Merc and CMC bracket the boat should still float level in the water. If not I plan on adding a deep cycle to the bow storage to balance.

I should know in a few weeks Oz so I will let you know how it pans out

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Looking for the good kicker motor

Bob, it's not my theory. I used to sail a lot and people who sail are very much up on the concept of hull speed. It's the limiting velocity for a given hull design short of planing. Very long, narrow displacement hulls have somewhat higher hulls speeds.

You may find these links interesting:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/hull-speed-1220.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed

ha ha, funny the Wikipedia example show a steam launch doing over 3 times its HULL SPEED, and it is not even close to being on plane...it is PLOWING water like crazy!!!


I was thinking of being an azzzz and mentioning a submarine...oops i just did ha ha... they seem to never get on plane , but can do 30 knots!!

it looks like the rough theory puts my hull at about 7 knots....whats that in MPH??

I think i have already gone 7 mph with the 15 and the first prop...

bob