"Loran-C" navigation system/GPS. Still around?

[tmh]

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Thanks. That gives me all the info to make a decision. I live near Lake Ontario but when I go into that big lake I just stay near shore for skiing/tubing, etc. Very close to coast guard boats all the time. Normally, on the NY State Finger Lakes, so no VHF needed.

I'll check out the rules as you requested. My kids might have fun listening in for a few days anyhow. No talking on it except for emergencies, I assume.

 

[edgutgesell]

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tmh,

Im' with Boatist! If you use your boat on a small lake, maybe your cell phone is ok. I use my boat in the Atlantic Ocean primarily, and I have Loran, GPS, VHF radio, and a cell phone. If the Loran is set up correctly it is considerably more accurate in returning to a marked spot than GPS!! With my GPS, I can get within 1/4 mile of a waypoint and then I use my fishfinder to identify bottom structure to exactly to return to a fishing hotspot. With my Loran, I get within 20' in most instances!!!

Loran was supposed to be phased out in, I think, 2000. Since Sept 11, 2001, Lorans future as a backup to GPS seems assured. Apparently GPS is much easier to jam than Loran, so Loran will be the backup in a terrorist attack. Some of the EU countries are already using Loran as a backup to GPS. The Coast Guard, instead of tearing down Loran transmitting stations have been updating transmitters.

Check Ebay on the price that used complete Loran setups with coupler and power cables are getting. Most of the better complete Loran units are getting higher prices than when they were new. If you are going to throw your Loran away, don't! I'll take it! I'll pay the freight and sell it on Ebay!! With the money I make, I'll have a significan downpayment on a new combined GPS/Loran chartplotter! Just my $.02!

 

[rottenray6402]

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I used one of the handheld VHF for quite a while and was happy with it for what I needed. I boat some Lake Erie, Ontario, 1000 Islands, and smaller lakes. I love the VHF for getting weather forcasts and communication if needed. As was pointed out on earlier posts the hand helds have much lower power and not near the distance as a mounted unit. The hand held is either 1 or 5 watt where the mounted ones are 25watt. The boat I just bought has a mounted VHF so now I can use the handheld as a back up. The range on the handheld was up to 4 or 5 miles at times across open water. I don't know anything about loran!

 

[Drowned Rat]

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If you're GPS is only getting you withing a quarter mile, it's time for a new GPS.:%

 

[Boatist]

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VHF rules allow you to talk on it and no licence is required anymore. However there are channels you are not allowed to use, example is 21 is for coast guard only.
There is a channel you are required to monitor. Channel 16 is the calling and distress channel all boat with VHF's are required to monitor this channel.

The idea is if everyone monitors channel 16 and someone put out a Mayday call on channel 16 then every near by boat should here it. You are required to listen and write down all you can for Maydays. Normally the Coast Guard will respond and take over the call. Probably move the call over to channel 22A or 6. If no one responds then you should respond, also try to relay the call to the Coast Guard.

Since 16 is the DISTRESS channel You are not allowed to carry on a conversaiton on this thannel. You can call another boat or shore station but then move to channel 68,69, 71 or 72 to have you comm with the other boat.
Many areas use channel 9 for locks and bridges.

Channel 12 an13 are used for ships vessel traffic service. If your meeting a ship in a narrow channel you can call him and see how he would like to pass and make sure he see you.

Many area fisherman use certain channel. Out here it is 77 Inland and 88 offshore.

Most VHF radios today will have dual watch or even triple watch so you can monitor 2 or 3 channel. Also most today will scan and large number of channels.

Many new models when you change channel will tell you what the channel is used for.
Channel 16 calling and DISTRESS
Channel 21 Coast Guard Only.
Channel 22A comm with the Coast Guard
Channel 68 and 69 non commerical.

Main thing is if you are interfeering with a Mayday on channel 16 Coast Guard will warn you to get off. You could cost someone their life. A boat may be 80 miles out to sea while you 2 miles out. You will not be able to here the boat but if your talking on channel 16 then you will cover up the other boat. Any time a Mayday is in progress stay off 16 but copy all the information you can and assist if possible and you may save a life.
False Mayday, kids playing can also cost a life. These type things the coast guard will try and find you. Calling for a radio check on 16 also a viloation of the rules.

Anyway it not that hard but everyone need to know the rules and know it not a toy.

 

[edgutgesell]

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If you're GPS is only getting you withing a quarter mile, it's time for a new GPS.:%

OK, I can get alot closer than 1/4 mile with my GPS. The repeatability (return) to a mark with my Loran is definitely better than my GPS. (Garmin) When you are out of sight of land, having both is a big deal to me! Maybe having Loran and GPS is like wearing a belt with suspenders. In the ocean, I'll wear both!!!

 

[swist]

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When GPS was introduced it had some limitations like repeatability and accuracy due to SA. Some people have not educated themselves on the current system: A modern GPS with WAAS will get you about 25' accuracy. And a GPS with a chartplotter will show you exactly where you are on the chart. I suppose you could argue that LORAN could be used as a backup if the global GPS system went down (unlikely). IMO you'd be better off with a 2nd GPS for backup, I see no advantage whatsoever for LORAN.

 

[Boatin Bob]

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IMHO a proper backup for either GPS or LORAN-C is the good old paper charts and some navigation skills. No one should be venturing out into a big lake or open water relying solely on electronic devices if they can't read a chart and compass and do some quick figuring as to where they are.

 

[swist]

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What's the big problem with having antennae on boats?

 

[edgutgesell]

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When GPS was introduced it had some limitations like repeatability and accuracy due to SA. Some people have not educated themselves on the current system: A modern GPS with WAAS will get you about 25' accuracy. And a GPS with a chartplotter will show you exactly where you are on the chart. I suppose you could argue that LORAN could be used as a backup if the global GPS system went down (unlikely). IMO you'd be better off with a 2nd GPS for backup, I see no advantage whatsoever for LORAN.

Most of the marine electronics manufacturers such as Sitec, Furono, etc. are coming out with chartplotters that will combine GPS & Loran. The Loran part of the combined product will use Loran E. Loran E uses the same frequency as Loran C and the operating principles (TD) remain the same. Since the frequency will remain the same, the Loran C units will continue to be as operational as they are now but they will not be able to use the new features that Loran E offers. Since you "see no advantage for Loran whatsoever" you'd better stay away from these new outmoded chartplotters!!