Low Oil Level and damage result.

[rlbourke]

Last season I had several problems with my engine which is a 1988 OMC King Cobra 335 HP Ford block. I had the carburetor, a Holly 4 barrel, rebuilt during the winter and in the spring the engine ran rough for several weeks until I discovered that the choke plate lever was disconnected from the automatic choke due to a missing cotter pin that was left out during the rebuild and therefore the engine was running rich for several weeks. Later in the season I suddenly had lifter noise and discovered that the marina that serviced my boat had failed to fill the oil reservoir, I had to add almost 4 quarts of oil to fill the crankase. Later in the season the engine began to run very rough and developed very little power and made a strange Chugging noise. I confronted the marina with these problems and they agreed to rebuild my engine at their expense during the off season. During the teardown it was disciovered that I had a blown head gasket.The gasket failed between two cylinders. The marina now claims that they were not responsible for the damage to my engine and that my problems were created by the blown head gasket. I feel that the lack of oil and improper carburetion probably lead to overheating of the engine causing the head gasket to fail rather than the head gasket failing first causing the other problems. My questions are do head gaskets spontainously fail or is failure usually due to some other cause and could a low oil level cause sufficient overheating in the head and not result in other damage such as cylinder scoring or bearing failure which I do not have.

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Low Oil Level and damage result.

Head gasket failure is usually a result of heat - something expanding while very hot and then contracting while the engine is cooling down. This stress is greatly increased with the lack of oil to both cool and lube the internals of an internal combustion engine.<br /><br />I am sure the main bearings, connecting rod or cam bearings of your engine will have signs of blueing or glazing as a direct result of this heat too. <br /><br />I greatly suspect the same marina who goofed the oil change of coming up with something they say is not there fault. If the head gasket did indeed fail, they still owe ALL NEW BEARINGS, Magna flux the block, new RINGS, align-hone the crankshaft, and all the related labor for removal and rebuild and reistall. The most you owe would be a head gasket kit with new seals.<br /><br />Check the bearings for blueing or glazing which is from heat and lack of oil. Tell them you need everything in writing NOW. Take a bearing to another garage where you get your vehicle serviced or another marina and get an opinion in writing from them. It may require hiring a lawyer but I do not think it will come to that.<br />Keep detailed records of everything, IN CASE.<br /><br />Goodluck,<br />Mike

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: Low Oil Level and damage result.

Now I'm a little curious. You ran it several weeks with the carb problem. Usually if the choke is disconnected, the choke is not engaged. Did the oil pressure appear normal? You didn't check your oil before starting the boat at every use? How much oil is in your bilge? So you ran the engine the rest of the season before the engine started running rough with no problems. I've got an idea that the oil was never the problem and the bearings will show that. If your oil pressure was fine all season and still showed good when this happen, you have no oil related damage. You possibly overheated the engine, blew the head gasket and thus had a rough running engine. If the bearings show no damage, you've got a bill to pay for a rebuild.

 

[rlbourke]

Re: Low Oil Level and damage result.

To captain Ken, sorry I didn't give enough detail. The boat is only used on weekends and for the first three weeks of the season every time the boat was picked up, I took it out of the marina only to find it still running rough after the carb rebuild and returned it to the marina where it was worked on during the week. The last time I picked the boat up I was heading back to my dock approximately 3 miles from the marina when I observed the lifter noise and checked the oil for the first time that season. Remember the boat had less than an hour of total time from the time I first picked it up and the time I discovered the low oil level. Even though it was several weeks it was only several minutes of operating time. The marina had the boat for 3 weeks trying to diagnose the rough running that I later discovered was caused by the choke lever.By the way I paid for a complete tune up, distributor cap, rotor, plugs and wires and was charged over $500.00 for diagnostics to solve the problem of rough running that they never solved. As far as oil goes I am embarrased that I never checked the oil at the marina when I picked the boat up, however as I just explained I barely took posession of the boat for the first several weeks of the season. There was no oil in the bilge, no oil shine on the water behind the boat and no evidence of burning oil. The boat is 15 years old but only has 900 hours on it and in 15 years I have never had to add a drop of oil to the engine between oil changes. Oil pressure, which I monitor constantly was never abnormal. I think that there was enough oil in the lower engine to produce a normal reading on thge pressure gauge but not enough to adequately cool and lubricate the head and valve train. You said that I possibly overheated the engine but the cooling system is fine, with a new water pump rebuild as a PM measure during the same off season as the carb rebuild. The only cause of overheating I can think of is the lack of oil.

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Low Oil Level and damage result.

BobbyB, I would carefuly check all your prior receipts with this marina to see if you were charged for this oil that should have been there.<br /><br />IF they charged you and admitted responsibility already or if they forgot to charge you for the oil, either way the embarrasment is theirs, not yours.<br /><br />Nothing bothers me more than blaming the customer for their mistake and then trying to shift blame.<br /><br />M.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Low Oil Level and damage result.

After rereading this thread several times.....<br />I see the lack of Oil as a Major Blunder, On both the part of the shop that turns out such pittiful work.. And you as a Captian... <br />But, I Fail to see any relationship between the low oil,+ the blown head gasket.... I've turned wrenches on alot of things, for alot of years... I've never seen low oil cause a head gasket to Go...<br />A Flooded motor doesn't really run very Hot... so we can rule out the choke-rod... Thou, that makes me wonder about the Whole Carb. Rebuild.....<br />You say the waterpump was rebuilt, Which one ??<br />Then, I saw your location......Lynn Mass. Minutes from the Atlantic..... Has this boat Ever seen Salt/ Brackishwater in the last 900hrs. ???????? If so, That's where your head gasket Went...<br />Either way, I'd be Looking for a New Marina to work with.....And Maybe think about checking the Important things, Before turning the key....

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Low Oil Level and damage result.

I ran this past a couple of seasoned wrenches. <br />A VERY POORLY ROUGH running engine (ie: backfiring / major pinging & knocking) could do damamge to a recently installed head gasket. <br /><br />I assume that this marina did the install on the carb?<br />M.

 

[rlbourke]

Re: Low Oil Level and damage result.

I never really noticed any major pinging or knocking or anything else other than rough running and stalling at idle. One thing I was wondering about is that a compression test early in the season, before the chugging noise developed, revealed lower compression in two cylinders, 115 in #3 and 120 in # 7 respectively compared to #1-130, #2-150, #4-135, #5-140, #6-135, #8-140. The low compression is on opposite sides of the engine and the photographs of the blown head gasket clearly shows the failure was between two adjacent cylinders. Also the head gasket appears to have remained intact between the cylinders and cooling ports, there is no evidence that water ever got into the cylinders or crankase. If the head gasket had failed and was the cause rather than the result of my problems wouldn't the compression test have shown a drop in compression on the two adjacent cylinders that were leaking between each other. One other thought, if the carb was running rich could that cause a carbon build up that could have resulted in pre-ignition that would increase pressure in the cylinder that could have caused the head gasket failure? By the way to all who have replied so far, many thanks for your input. Bob

 

[6MISFITZ]

Re: Low Oil Level and damage result.

BobbyB, when a head gasket fails there is usually a mixing of oil and coolant or in this case water. <br />What was the colour of the oil when the engine was removed from your boat?<br />Also if the head gasket was new, why is the marina not asking the gasket manufacturer for reimbursement parts and labour for there faulty product? <br />Your documentation clearly points the questions in one direction.<br /><br />Mike