Lower unit: drive shaft doesn't turn and doesn't shift

fmjnax

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
457
Just picked up a used lower unit off of eBay (yeah, I know) for my motor (J115TLCRD). I was told it was in full operating condition, but I'm not so sure now. The prop shaft spins freely (good) but the drive shaft doesn't turn at all; even with the old water pump off of it. I wrapped the splines and gripped it with some vice grips, but still no movement. Also, I cannot shift the unit. The shift rod won't engage up or down. The unit was not shipped with oil so I don't know if that could be why or not. I'm thinking of filing it with eBay/Paypal before I invest any more time in to it (I already changed the prop shaft seals!). Is it normal for these things not to work by hand or do I have a problem here?
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,226
Major problem. The shaft should turn freely with the pump off. It has a frozen bearing or busted gear, or something. Can't tell without opening it up. Empty (no oil) is not a factor, unless if is full of rust. But that took time.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 28, 2013
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38,469
Send it back at once, get a refund.------Sad that some of these sellers know nothing about motors and the goods they are offering for sale.--Good luck.---Find a local shop you can trust !!!
 

fmjnax

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
457
Thanks guys. That's what I was afraid of. I asked the seller a couple of times if there were any issues. He stated no issues. His description didn't list ANYTHING about any problems (not even the bent/broken skeg, but I could see that in the pictures and was ok with it). His item condition even stated "fully operational and functions as intended". Not even close! To make matters just that much worse, the seller is a marine dealer up in Connecticut (has a store-front and everything)! Somehow, I would have expected that he would have known this thing was junk.

It's almost going to cost me more money to get the refund than the item itself cost. I noticed it as soon as I took it out of the box, but figured it was the old impeller jamming it up or having no oil in it so I proceeded with cleaning it up. I've already replaced the seals and water pump so I'm out about $100 right off the bat, plus the $75 to ship it back. I sure as heck won't be able to find another LU for the $75 going back in my pocket. I've already filed the complaint with eBay/PayPal, but I'm tempted to at least give it a look and see if I can get lucky with it being a relatively cheap part.

I spoke with a trusted outboard mechanic here locally and he said it's most likely the pinion bearing. Is it difficult to get to this point in breakdown? Keep in mind, I have a service manual (at home) and mechanics come natural to me.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
38,469
Remove water pump completely.---Remove 4 bolts found under there.---Remove upper thrust bearing housing and inspect bearings found there--Should tell a story..
 

fmjnax

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
457
Thanks racerone. Sounds simple enough, and I'm sure the service manual will fill in the missing detail. I'm going to give it a shot tonight and see what it looks like.
 

Bosunsmate

Admiral
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
6,135
Hows the top of the splines look on the driveshaft?
Broken skeg suggest it may of hit something
Post photos if possible.
 

fmjnax

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
457
I will take some pics and post them when I get home.

The skeg isn't bent too bad; I may have over-emphasized that. I had an older Mariner that got bent more hitting a stump at <5 mph. It does have some chunks taken out of it, though. They are on the prop-side vertical face, so not from running ground or hitting something head on. In fact, I can't really think of how they broke.

The splines on the drive shaft are all straight and deep. They don't appear to have ever skipped or stripped. They were packed with grease when I got it, but I cleaned them out for inspection. Same for the splines on the prop shaft.

The housing itself is ugly; paint peeling, a bit of gunk buildup, and a little rust/corrosion where I think I would expect to see it. Nothing too bad, I don't think.
 

M Strawn

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
38
Its possible that the previous owner tried to use the skeg as a fulcrum in an attempt to get the shaft to spin by levering against the prop blades. Pop goes the aluminum skeg, or small pieces of it anyway.
 

fmjnax

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
457
Obviously no pictures. The site seemed to be down for me last night (perhaps it was for everyone). Anyway, great news for me. I decided to go out and investigate why it might be seized. It looked like there was some corrosion on the shaft at the upper bearing carrier. I sprayed some PB Blaster, put on a spline adapter, and gave it a crank with a 16" crescent wrench. Surprisingly, with just a few pounds of pressure it broke free and started to spin freely. No binding or grinding.

I then pulled the bearing carrier and noticed that the seals were beyond shot. As I had seen on the top side, they clearly had corroded to the shaft. I pulled them and checked the needle bearings. They appeared fine, other than a little corrosion sludge. I shot them out with some PB and some lubricant. Didn't notice any pitting or binding. I greased them back up and they were good to go. I also pulled the shims and thrust washer. Same corrosion sludge, but still in good shape after cleaning. The thrust washer only had trace amounts of the rusty looking grease so I don't think it seeped down too far. I wet-sanded the corrosion on the shaft with some 800 grit paper and there was no pitting, groves, or gouges, so that is good. The thrust bearing surprisingly looked great. I gave it some grease and put it all back. I'll pick up some new seals this afternoon and my water pump kit should arrive in the mail today.

Moving on, I took a look at my shift problem. It, too, looked like it had some corrosion at the top of the housing. Same procedure with the PB. Detached the housing and unscrewed the shift rod. I drained the remaining oil in there and noticed a magnet inside of a spherical spring (it's not in any parts list so someone must have added it at some point). The magnet had a little oil buildup and some metal on it, but it wasn't much and no large flakes. It was all like fine sand/shavings and research shows that this is normal. I pulled the o-ring and cleaned up the shaft. I then put on a new o-ring, re-installed, and was able to shift both forward and reverse. No binding or grinding here either.

As for why I think this happened, I suspect that there were a couple of factors:
1 - The upper seals were toast. Probably had water in the oil, though it was shipped without oil so I can't know for certain
2 - No grommet on the shift rod. This also probably introduced water
3 - The unit had sit outside for a few months before I bought it, thus adding to the corrosion/water intrusion from the outside

Long story short, what I think happened is water intrusion had corroded the seals, rending the shafts "stuck". A look inside the internals as far as I could see didn't show any signs of water damage so it does not appear to be an issue past the first layer. I will know for sure when I install and test the LU tonight or tomorrow.
 

Bosunsmate

Admiral
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
6,135
good job.
run some grease up the shaft and a little on the splines for reinstall. dont put any on the very top face.
you probably know this but refill the oil via the botttom hole
 

fmjnax

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
457
Thanks Bosunsmate. I did all of the above (as well as refilled the tilt/trim reservoir, while I was there). I fired it up on the muffs and confirmed functionality in all gears. Then I drained the oil to check for metal or water (none), and refilled. Now I just have to wait for a day that isn't so windy so that I can hit the lake and really give it the test!
 
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