lync and synce confusion , please help

[Sheltering]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

All I can say is my 65 hp Johnson was like beautiful music this morning when I took her to sea. Idles beautifully and revs perfectly with no hesitation whatsoever. Water was a bit too choppy to open her fully (or I was just too scared), but man she ran great.
Thanks for all the info.

Don

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Faztbullet

thanks for the info, ill open that page and keep that on file.

sheltering
your cable for the electric solenoid needs to go round behined the throttle arm.
there is a hole cut out it can go though or will end up shorting out on the arm or get pulled apart.

glad yours in running nice now.


schematic.
if this engine cant pull a 15 pitch prop at 6000rpm then this is no good at all.
these engines should easily pull 6000rpm with a 19 let alone a 15 pitch.

my boat is only 13ft long and weight is about 250 kilo of the boat, its tri hull configuration.
i can get 5400 with a 23 pitch semi cleaver in submerged position with it.

it should get a lot more than 5700 revs with the 15 pitch, maybe i have a slow limiter on this ?
need to check the numbers of the limiter.
its not like it struggles with the 15p, when running right it jumps out the water with that, infact the holeshot is on the
dangerous side due to fast acceleration.
it just shoots up to 5700 and stops right there.
with the 19 pitch sst it has good hole shot and gets straight up to 5500-5600 and again stays there.
with the 23 pitch stainless semi-cleaver (overhub ) its crap hole shot due to cavitaion being submerged,but when it bites its
a very very quick boat to max revs (5400-5500).
from about 1/3 rd throttle to max revs is instant with any of the props on this boat.
just seems slow top end rpms to me.
i am sure these are supposed to be limited way over 6000 rpm.


but first i have to get this running right, and now armed with all this info that should be what happens today (fingers crossed)

all this info is very much appreciated big time.




phill

 

[TwoRivers]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Good luck today Phill.
Wish I could help.
Rob

 

[schematic]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

schematic.
if this engine cant pull a 15 pitch prop at 6000rpm then this is no good at all.
these engines should easily pull 6000rpm with a 19 let alone a 15 pitch.
phill

As i said, it depends on YOUR setup for a boat. 15p on a pontoon boat will NOT yield 6000rpm.
I didn't realize you had a 13' boat......(not that common)


So whats wrong with 5700 rpm? You are within the sweet spot

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

5700 rpm is not the limiter speed is why i was concerned.
the rev limiter should not be in at this speed, i need to get the engine to 6000 to get the prop to do its proper job
when running up in surface mode.

Years ago i had a 65hp johnson that could twist the 19p stainless to 5650 on a 14ft boat no problem.
this engine i have now is bigger in cubic capacity and should run it a good deal higher up the rev range.
The 65hp was a 1973 engine,hp rated at the flywheel not prop

if the 19 pitch was just under 6000rpm i could understand that, but to only get that with a 15 pitch is realy poor show.

sweet spot on this engine should be over 6000 rpm from what i understand.
if i was to buy a new powerpack from say CDI there powerpacks have the limiter at 6750, now thats a thousand more revs.
to me thats a huge difference.
you can buy powerpacks with a 7500 rev limiter as well so its not like the engine cant take it..

once i get this all sorted and running good i might try a set of 70hp carbs if i ever see any available over here.
but if its gonna limit on the 5700 then no point as the top end is still going to be the same.
the pull away with a 15 pitch is unreal, with a 17 very very good,with a 19 is good, with 23 its bad due to not running at
correct height for the prop.

i have also tried a 12.75 x 23 omc alloy prop and again the holeshot good but ran out of revs at 5700 with loads of slip and
bad cavitaion. (that i think needed to run an inch lower)
so its not like the engine lacks power from 2000 to WOT ,its just the WOT is way too low compared to what it is supposed to be.

most adverts for the engine when they were new were telling about 6000rpm's.
i had a guy on a forum give me the part number my powerpack should be but lost it when pc crashed out big time.

i have wondered if my powerpacks are commercial ones with lower rev limiters ??? i dont know how to find out about that.

if my boat was a big heavy boat then yeah 5700 would be good numbers.
but i want to see 5700 with atleast the 13x19 sst and atleast 5700 with the 13.75x23 semi-cleaver prop to get
anywhere near the speeds im after (obviously cleaver will have to run very high to get the revs up )

has anyone here got the spec the rev limiter should be on this engine ?

im sure i was told between 6250 and 6750 as being normal original omc stuff, not modified in any way at all.


phill

 

[schematic]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

6700 is the limit.

over and out....

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

cheers schematic
youve helped me a lot on this, and so have many others.

but i did get a fair bit confused with the taking the wires off the solenoid to day.

when i took the red and yellow wires off the solenoid i got NO spark.!!!!!
when i took off just the yellow i got NO spark !!!!!!!!!!
both of these were with ignition key in the on position !!!!!!!!!!!

so out came the plugs to check to make sure whats happening, definitely no spark at all with both the
yellow with red stripe off and plain yellow off.
also tried it with just one of the wires off and done it with just yellow off and just yellow/red off NO SPARK.

Put both wires back on and SPARK straight away ?????????????

anyway took the white with black stripe apart and grounded the wire to powerpack.
managed to get a timing mark up and set it to about 5 degree's.
then put fuel line on and managed to start the bugger.
the revs were about 850 to 900 and a bit rough to be honest so thats probably carbs need setting up better.
put the engine into gear with a big prop so its well under load and got 4 degree's ATDC bang on the mark at about 650 to 700 revs.

now i have a little vid of the engine running below, its not right but its a lot better than not running at all.
again this engine will run great over 2000 rpms and seems smooth at that rpm onwards.....

at idle i have the lever on idle stop screw and the cam plate pointer fractional off the roller but in line with mark.

now the idle warm up lever will only take this to about 1300 to 1500 rpms !!!!!
and as soon as the throttle main lever starts to move so does the butterflys, the advanc e DOES NOT move unteill the butterflys
are opening for sure,its about 1200rpm onwards that the advance starts to move !!!!!!!!!
definitely not before the roller moves.
ive also put a vid of that to show how it is set up, im sure everyone elses must be the same.

video of it running in water butt on idle in nuetral.
Evilrude is running again 1 - YouTube


video of the cam moving the roller before the advance moves !!!!
cam on roller before advance moves 1 - YouTube


video of the control levers and advance moving etc
idle timing 2 - YouTube

so now a new fuel pump is about to be ordered as i know this one is bad.
im not going with the VRO type i want an old style reliable pump that i can always get a rebuild kit for cheaply.

i know they are all old style etc,but never had problems with them in past so will be going that way.


now i hope i have the lynce and synce right, if not im definitely going to start drinking heavily and smoke a
load of the jamaican sweet smelling herbal cigarettes and leave it to someone else.
i have got so confused with this :facepalm: , and yet it should of been a simple thing to do !!!!

thanks to everyone for putting up with me on this topic,
its been like watching paint dry for some of you i know, but atleast it actually now runs.
(not great, buts getting there)


phill.........

 

[TwoRivers]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Good work Phill.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

I would never of got this far in getting it sorted out right without the help of the members on here.
i tried ordering the proper service book and nobody actualy seems to have one over here, they all say,
"we can TRY to order you one"
well trying is no good,i need it ASAP.
whats the point in being a dealer if you dont have any parts, its not like its just because my engine is old now,while in
dealership a guy came in for impellor for a 2008 e-tec 50hp, he got told " ill see if we can get you one by next weekend"
that is crazy to not have the impeller for the most popular size outboard in the world sitting on the shelf.
so he went down the road to a non evinrude dealer and got one straight away, and it was in a brp bag ha ha ah

But like i say the folks here are brilliant, and it dont seem to matter how old or how new your engine is,someone will be bang on
target with diagnosis and remedy sollutions.

great to have such a community of people from all around the world with the aim of getting our boats going again.

Now just got to sort a good fuel pump, then the carb needles can have a bit of tinkering with.
thats gonna be fun i just know it. ha ha
must say this engine does seem very very temperamental, definitely the worst engine i have had
for silly stuff going wrong and driving me insane.


phill

 

[Sheltering]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Phill,
I noticed a few posts back where you had installed a new power pack. Do you have a way to test the power pack? My good running motor was quite short-lived as I now have a problem with the motor cutting out when throttled up. It sounds like it is only firing on one cylinder and then it will cut back in only momentarily. It still idles beautifully but has no power when throttled.
I tried a spark tester and found that No 3 cylinder had no spark. I removed the power pack and discovered that the ground wire had a nick in the insulation. When I attempted to repair the nick, the wire was corroded badly and I was almost into the pack itself before I could find a solid end of the wire to solder a new piece on to. I suspect that the corrosion has entered the power pack and that may be the source of the problem. I priced a new power pack on line and it was around $300 for the part number stipulated for my motor (5004532 - PPACD3 AL67). There is another available for $89 (CD4 0583110). Do you know if the CD4-053110 will work?

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

I replaced my powerpack with a spare one i have from a spares engine that has bad piston.block etc.
to be honest i dont know if this one is good or bad or even if the old one was bad.
i just swapped it incase it was that.

electric stuff realy is not something i know much about at all, if i cant see it,then i cant fix it ha ha.
but i think i could of been getting some bad results from the pack.

im sure someone will tell you what will fit it and what will not,
but i think the CD4 0583110 and CD4-053110 are just for 2 cylinder engines.

the price is $213 from cdi for the right one....they aint cheap thats for sure

phill

 

[Sheltering]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Thanks Phill.
I think I may be on to something else. Today I did a spark test and the No 3 cylinder had no spark. I tried switching the wire from the power pack to the NO 2 coil and I got spark. I then put the wires back and there was spark at No 3. I started the motor and it was running smooth again. I`m thinking that possibly I have an intermittent problem with the No 3 coil. Incidentally, when I had no spark at No 3, I removed the No 3 power pack to coil wire and connected it to the NO 2 and there was a good strong spark which I believe might eliminate the power pack as the source of the problem.
Tomorrow I will try a new No 3 coil and see what happens.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

I too was thinking powerpack at one stage.
im still a bit puzzled how the timing could of altered itself ?

hope yours is just a coil, nice and cheap and easy fix if it is.


phill

 

[Sheltering]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

My problem may have been a combination of things. I have attached a photo of the No 3 coil that was acting up and the outer plastic is broken away on the underside. I also checked all the ends on the plug/coil wiring and discovered quite a bit of corrosion. It was sloppy for me to not have checked this before. I cleaned up all the wiring and installed a new No 3 coil and motor seems to be working beautifully in the backyard (motor in a large container of water for back pressure). The ultimate test will be later today when I put it in the water again.
Don in New Brunswick

 

[Sheltering]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

An update from New Brunswick.
I tried my boat in the water and all was well. I basically just cleaned up all the connections on the wiring (coils to plugs) and renewed one coil and wire. It wasn`t a long run so there is a chance there may still be an intermittent problem, and if there is, I will change the power pack. For now though, it runs very good - both idle and wot.
Thanks for the help.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Sounds like you have solved the problem :clap2: well done

that old coil must of been cracked a while and probably done by something levering against it ????

glad its all going well for you

but do put a bit of paint on those cylinder head bolts !!!!!
keep them as good as possible and corrosion free !!

good that you've managed a nice trial run with it all going well, it makes it all seem worth it when it goes good.




phill