Machine shop specs and piston size help

[DamianJP]

Hey guys

Just got off the phone with both my machine shop people and Wiesco. Im trying just to do a hone and get new pistons and not do a bore, because this place can't bore marine stuff and its prolly going to be expensive. How much does it usually cost to bore a 0.020" over?

Cylinderhead shop said the block seems fine but the pistons took some wear, more than the block.

CylinderBlock is 3.1890"

Pistons (Getting new pistons anyway, just giving you an idea)
Upper 3.1790"
Lower 3.1760"

Wiesco has 4 options

3.1875in STD
3.2075in .020in
3.2175in .030in
3.2275in .040in

Wiesco said I could try and use Standard pistons. They normally have 6 1/2 thousands of an Inch clearance out of the box. But If I just went with a light hone and dropped new standard pistons in with my 3.1890 block that the clearance would be 8 to 8 1/2 thousands of an Inch clearance. He said I "should" be fine, would be more noise when cold .


Now I remember someone saying on here that if I went wiesco to make sure to go 0.0015 over more than spec and use a new T-Stat. Wiesco guy said he's heard that too from certain customers. I guess it's to give head room for the heat expansion with the forged. With my block as it is at...

3.1890 Block
_ 3.1875 New pistons
___________
0.0015

Im lost and need so expert advise and what to do. Should I try to make the standards work?
Or start scouting out a good machine shop to bore to the 0.020" overs?


Thanks,
DamianJP

 

[raczekp1]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

i spoke with guy in repair shop.he said he can do rebore for 2 hole block just for 40$.
if you wish to send me block and one old and one new piston he can do the job-but i dont know how much be a postage here and back

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

you have up to .004" oversize according to the book you look like you are under that!, you have to hone a little, you can rough up the walls and still not take .0003" off!!!

I sent a block out and it was about $45 to bore and hone each hole...

some motors are harder than others....what motor do you have??

i know my motor had a flat bottom and made it VERY difficult to hone correctly, because you could not stroke the hole past the end!!!

seems that you would only be saving $45 per hole X ?????? how many holes....on the gamble of my having a real true ROUND HOLE to start with...all your other costs are the same...new gasket set.... new pistons and rings...

only difference is $90 for a 2 cylinder, $135 for a 3 cylinder and $180 for a 4 cylinder


so its up to saving $180(max) or winging it and hoping you get the best SEAL you can.....


I have a warped piston in one hole and some slight marking... that could have come out with a hone, and put me right at the edge of SPEC....but i wanted peace of mind and just went with boring all four cylinders and four new pistons.... and hope that i never am back into that motor again!!


compare the savings to the amount of time this project is taking.....

good luck


bob

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

Well Thank You for all your info so far !!

Just got off the phone with a place on the westcoast of Florida called Flagship Marine.
They said it will cost $60 to ship the block to them / send back and like you guys said $32 per cylinder to hone/bore. So for around $130 the block will be done.

I was looking at a Rebuild kit from these guys for $350
http://www.powerheadexchange.com/
But I think they can only get Wiesco pistons (Forged)
Its gonna cost around that to get a OEM piston/wrist pin kit (Casted)
Then I still need a lower bearing and other "goodies" that the kit had in it.

So Im kinda up in the air with that part. Wiesco or OEM .

I think Im going ahead and bore it out to either .020 or .030 , Depending if I go Wiesco or not. Instead of just slapping stuff in there.


Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks again !!!
DamianJP

 

[DargelJohn]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

Get it bored to .020 and go with cast aluminum piston kits. I tried to hone my last rebuild and wound up seizing the engine, 7 hours into the break-in. My cylinders were not round due to lower main bearing play.

I shipped my block to shop in Florida that specialize in outboards. Powerhead Exchange. BTW-They carry cast aluminum piston kits.

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

Hey Dargel

Sorry to hear about the seize up. I thought they only make a Standard and a 0.030 Cast OEM ?

Yeah if Powerhead Exchange can get a kit with cast pistons for the $350 that would rock.

I just pieced together a 'kit'
0.030 Pistons / Rings / Wrist pins and bearings
Crank bearing for connecting arms
Lower and middle main bearings for crank

0317831 CIRCLIP 10PK
$1.64x4
0378252 RETAINER & NDLE AY
$18.17x1
0379258 BEARING ASSEMBLY, Inner
$18.17x1
0385811 RING SET,.030 O.S
$25.62x4
0387142 NEEDLE SET, RD
$9.77x2
0388188 RETAINING SET
$25.17x2
0388204 PISTON & WRIST PIN, .030"
$143.75x2
0388595 BEARING,Wristpin
$16.77x2
Subtotal =$536.30 OUCH!


So yeah If I can get that kit they have for $350 with casted pistons, that will be the way I go.


Thanks,
DamianJP

 

[DargelJohn]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

They bored my '96 Johnson 88SPL to .040", and fixed me up with cast aluminum WSM Platinum Piston Kits. That 88SPL is a torque monster, 135# on all four jugs. Good Luck

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

Well Im in a rock and a hard place.

Powerhead exchange said they can only get Wiesco, no WSM's. He tried and has WSM's for other engines but it seems Im a year off.

He can sell me the kit minus the pistons for $250, whichh is really no deal. $50 for each pistons/rings taken off.

Well its I either go with my own pistons and the kit for $568.

Or piece together my own and I was already up to $536 without other stuff still needed.

Alittle more than the $350 I wanted but it is what it is, this far into my "10year" project.

Im just hoping with the right maintenance and I give her what she needs and when she needs it, this engine lasts a long time.



Thanks,
DamianJP

 

[daselbee]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

I got a bad deal from Flagship. I will not do business again. FYI.

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

Please explain.

How did this bad deal go down?

Thanks,
DamianJP

 

[DargelJohn]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

Try contacting WSM directly and see what they can do...

http://www.wsmparts.com/

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

No go, has only the rings for that year 1977 55hp evinrude.

Well it is what it is, at least I know a ball-park price I need to save alittle more for $600.

He said flagship is awesome people and they do %100 work. He knows them for over 10 years. Said they deal with wiesco too and that flagship can set up my block with those wiesco's and it would last forever if I follow break period to the 'T'.

Still debating OEM's vs Wiesco's but Ill problly go OEM's.

Little by little I will get this done.


Thanks,
DamianJP

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

why are you worried about Wisco forged pistons?????

and id only go to the very next size piston!!! why make a huge jump on bore size????? .010-.020 over should be fine.

I am wondering why you ahve to buy four ring sets??

its only a two cylinder....right?

when you buy a piston it comes with thr wrist pin and rings and c-clip!!!! all for about $100-$120 per hole

if you are buying more...you are wasting money
heck i bet you could find pistons on e-bay for as little as $75 WITH rings and wrist pins

I bought a whole kit from a guy here called faztbullet

PM him and ask what he could set you up with

bob

 

[DamianJP]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

Hey Bob

I dont know why im worried about the wiesco. I guess it seems more can go wrong with the heat expansion and setting them up the right way. Mabey Im just being too careful and spinning my wheels.

Whats your 2 cent's on the wiesco's?

I was doing the 0.030 jump because thats all the next size the OEM's come in.

Boats.net said required and had a 4 underneath, automatically put 4 in when I pressed add to cart.

2 cylinder

The OEM Pistons coming from Boat.net , crowley marine , marine engine all come with rings and C clips? They have piston as part 1 , rings as part 2 and C clips as part 3.

I checked Ebay, slim pickings and it was all used mostly.

I'll PM FaztBullet, mabey he can build I kit for me.

Once again Thank you bob for the info/help and everyone else.


Thanks,
DamianJP

 

[boobie]

Re: Machine shop specs and piston size help

I know the people at Flagship and they have always been very honest and up front with me. That's the only place I'd deal with for rebuilds.