Marine Safety Disclosure

[r.j.dawg]

I have a question with regards to marine surveys. A co-worker had his boat for sale, a 1994 Chaparral 290, and last week a potential buyer had it surveyed. The buyer emailed him yesterday and said the boat had a serious safety flaw with the hull and wouldn't be going through with the sale. He refused to disclose what the actual problem was after several emails back and forth. I thought there was a statute or law that the surveyor or potential buyer was duty bound to disclose a latent safety defect to the seller in such a case. Maybe I'm wrong but this just doesn't seem right. My buddy is a bit panicked now. Thoughts???

 

[Don S]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

The person that hired and paid for the survey is the only one that gets the information.

Nothing the boat owner has any rights to at all. Unless he wants to pay for a survey himself.

 

[r.j.dawg]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I understand that Don and don't get me wrong, I am thankful for all the help you have given me through mine and other peoples threads, but I can't believe that if a defect is found during a survey that makes a boat dangerous to operate on the water, it's not required somehow to report that condition to the owner. I mean, someone could lose a life.

 

[Don S]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

It's privileged information to the person that hired him. If the boat owner wants to know what the problem is, he should ask the buyer that had the survey done. The surveyor (like a doctor or lawyer) can not just give privileged information to anyone that asks.

The boat owner now knows there is a problem, it's up to him to find the problem and get it fixed, even if he has to hire a serveyor and have it checked out.
The guy that wanted to buy the boat just spent some buxs for that survey and has nothing to show for his money.

 

[Another retired guy]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I have a question with regards to marine surveys. A co-worker had his boat for sale, a 1994 Chaparral 290, and last week a potential buyer had it surveyed. The buyer emailed him yesterday and said the boat had a serious safety flaw with the hull and wouldn't be going through with the sale. He refused to disclose what the actual problem was after several emails back and forth. I thought there was a statute or law that the surveyor or potential buyer was duty bound to disclose a latent safety defect to the seller in such a case. Maybe I'm wrong but this just doesn't seem right. My buddy is a bit panicked now. Thoughts???

I find it strange that the buyer won't say what the problem is. Surely any normal sane person would pass that info on? Maybe there is nothing wrong and this was just the guys way of getting out of the deal!

 

[r.j.dawg]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Thanks again Don. I understand the privileged information, much like a lawyer as you said. And I don't want to beat this to death but only put this out to the forum for information. What I don't get is that with all the boater safety lately, that someone could become informed of a defect in a boat through a survey, that could be life threatening, and not be obligated to report it. I simply can't get my head around that.

I have had many boats surveyed and two failed with life threatening problems. One had a soaking wet transom and the other had a soaking wet fore deck (it was so wet the boat wouldn't come up on plane). Both times I gave a copy of the survey to the broker/owner as I felt obligated to inform them. To prevent a possible injury or worse. It didn't matter that I paid for the survey, I thought I was being a, well, a good boater. And I was sure there was a law that required me to do it. If there isn't, there damn well should be.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

If I were the now ex-buyer, I'd offer to split the cost 50/50 with the seller. They pay half and get a copy. No $$$, no copy, period. The seller now knows there is a serious problem, so it is no longer a safety issue.

 

[matt167]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

He doesn't legally have to say anything but it is weird that he did not. Your buddy could ask him what was wrong with the boat to see if he would go along with a repair at your buddies expense, but still make the purchase ( as in cash down payment before repair is made ). If the guy is chain yanking, he won't go along with it. If he does, your buddy has to go along with it, use the cash down payment to make the repair and if he backs out then, your buddy has the boat fixed for free, but it might be a big job and $$$ who knows. What is best for your buddy is to now get his own inspection done and have it ready for other potential buyers. Anyone dropping that kind of $$ will get their own inspection also, but it adds a bit of security. And your buddy will get the scoop on his boat.

 

[Don S]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Having worked in the marine business for many years and dealt with many surveyors, I can tell you that the "Serious Safety Issues" could be as serious as fire extinguisher certification being out of date, or a bilge pump that doesn't work. Who knows.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Maybe there is nothing wrong and this was just the guys way of getting out of the deal!

^^^^We have a winner!....^^^^

 

[roscoe]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

If I were the now ex-buyer, I'd offer to split the cost 50/50 with the seller. They pay half and get a copy. No $$$, no copy, period. The seller now knows there is a serious problem, so it is no longer a safety issue.

No, he doesn't.

He knows that one potential buyer doesn't want to buy the boat, that is all.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Long ago I learned "that which is legally permissible is not always morally right."

If there really was a serious safety issue--which I doubt--the potential buyer should tell the seller. There is no moral reason not to, nor will it cost the buyer anything. If he wanted to be a jerk about it, he could sell the survey.

Or he could identify the surveyor and the seller can hire the same guy to "go back out there".

The fact that he won't is contrary to the likelihood that a surveyor found something.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I'm with those that think the seller wanted a way out, if the survey actually did show a serious problem with the boat and I was looking to purchase it I would have absolutely no problem sharing the info with the owner, my opinion is that the owner should know if he doesn't and if he does I caught him in his lie and shame on him.

Of course the Owner could pay to have the boat surveyed himself if he was so inclined, otherwise the Owner has no legal rights to the results of the Survey paid for by a prospective buyer. The Owner could possibly pay the Surveyor for a Legal copy of the Survey at a cut rate I bet if he were interested....

 

[JEBar]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

if you know who surveyed the boat, contact him and ask what he'd charge to do the survey for you .... I'd think that since he has just seen it and written a report, you may be able to get a much reduced price .... once you have the survey you will know

Jim

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

We had a real estate inspection performed on a house several years back. It turned up many, many issues and we declined to buy the home. The seller's agent showed us the fine print that we signed off on before the inspection that said something to the effect that the seller agreed to give us time in the home for inspection so long as we provided the seller with a copy of the inspection if we declined to purchase the home. Maybe the OP's friend could consider something like that for his boat.

BUT, that's kind of a double edged sword when you think about it. Now the seller knows in no uncertain terms that their home had several mold issues, massive electrical issues, minor CO leaking in the furnace etc. If they failed to disclose that info to the next buyer they could REALLY have themselves in a legal jam.

 

[emoney]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I'd be willing to wager that the "privileged information" excuse wouldn't hold up in court, should catastrophe occur to the current owner as evidenced, I think, in this example;

http://www.admiraltylaw.com/fisheries/Papers/surveyor's negligence.htm

(It's the 2nd example under "Cases Where Liability Imposed" is highlighted).
Has your buddy tried contacting the surveyor and asking him or her if there is, in fact, a serious safety flaw?

 

[shrew]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

It's worth noting the OP is in Canada and the majority of replies are US based. Laws vary from state to state and country to country. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

When we were buying a boat, we had one (which we ended up NOT buying) inspected and found to have some serious problems (e.g., non-marine starter, alternator) that could have been dangerous. After we told the seller we were taking a pass, the inspector asked if he could share his findings with the seller. We had no problem with that; we had got our money's worth by learning this was a boat to avoid. We saw no harm in the inspector sharing his report. Maybe the seller was unaware of the some of the problems (maybe not), but at least he couldn't say he didn't know...

I did like that the inspector asked us if we minded him sharing the report, though.

Jim

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I... Maybe there is nothing wrong and this was just the guys way of getting out of the deal!

I am with Oshkosh, we have a winner!

 

[Maclin]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

My first thoughts were that the buyer wanted a way out as well. RJDawg may not know all the negotiations that went on prior.

RJ, I think you can calm your co-worker some by mentioning that the need-a-way-out scenario is very likely. Also, if you are on good terms, and since you said you do surveys, take a cursory look at his boat. Or you could contact the surveyor and talk biz-to-biz with them mentioning that you were asked to take a look at the same boat and see if they would let you know some things as a professional courtesy.