Marine Safety Disclosure

[r.j.dawg]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Thanks for all the reply's guys. My co-worker contacted the surveyor he used when he bought the boat and by chance he is going to be at the city marina today anyway so he is going to have a look at the boat. I think I mis-typed Maclin. I don't do surveys. I should have typed " I have had many boats surveyed" :facepalm:

 

[Maclin]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I think I mis-typed Maclin. I don't do surveys. I should have typed " I have had many boats surveyed" :facepalm:

You could still pretend long enough maybe to get the surveyor to get comfy and spill some beans...

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

serious safety flaw with the hull

that could mean no seawater shutoff valve....
serious? yep
boat sinker? yep

cost to remedy? $30


lots of serious safety issues are minor repairs.

my guess is the potential buyer would disclose if an offer to split the survey cost was made. I suspect the potential buyer already offered that deal up, and if not, then he just hasn't the courage to say his wife isn't letting him get it.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

... he could sell the survey... Or he could identify the surveyor ...

...If you know who surveyed the boat...

Is there ant reason the seller would NOT know who surveyed the boat.
The surveyor would need the permission of the owner to get access to the boat.
I am sure the surveyor identified himself, left a business card, etc.

If my boat were getting surveyed I would be on board for the whole process, looking over his shoulder. (Figuratively speaking.)

The idea of "I'll let the surveyor on board as long as I get a copy of the inspection report" would be a reasonable request.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

The idea of "I'll let the surveyor on board as long as I get a copy of the inspection report" would be a reasonable request.

In this market, I'd be more likely to bring pizza and offer to cover some of the survey cost.Then I have a survey to show any other prospective buyers.

 

[BRICH1260]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I think it is being used as an excuse to close the purchase negotiations.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Bubba, as a decent human being, if you found out a boat had a potentially dangerous flaw, you wouldn't tell the owner? You would just let him sell it to some unsuspecting family, and put them in peril? Well, that is just the way some people are, including you, I guess. And that's just wrong. I seem to remember some rule that says something like, "treat others the way you would want to be treated."

That is why myself and others are saying that the potential buyer is just "looking for a way out". Or looking for a way to get the OP's friend to pay for the survey. Either way, it's sleazy and shameful.

If that boat kills someone later and anyone finds out that the surveyor and the man who paid for the survey knowingly withheld life-saving info, I would hope the injured/dead party sues them for all they are worth or will ever be worth. And I don't believe in suing people just for the heck of it. But this is one of those cases where a 40 gazillion dollar award would be justified.

Right is right, and this person's refusal to disclose the problem is wrong.

 

[matt167]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I would bet, potential buyers wife said no and it would end up in divorce court. Divorce court is more expensive than that inspection

 

[dingbat]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Bubba, as a decent human being, if you found out a boat had a potentially dangerous flaw, you wouldn't tell the owner?

I am morally obliged to tell him of a potentially dangerous flaw exists in his boat. That has been done. I am not morally obligated to diagnosis the problem for him. Once advised, it's owners responsibility to remediate the situation, not mine.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I thought there was a statute or law that the surveyor or potential buyer was duty bound to disclose a latent safety defect to the seller in such a case. Maybe I'm wrong but this just doesn't seem right. My buddy is a bit panicked now. Thoughts???

You thought wrong. I do think that the potential buyer is being a **** for not informing the seller of the nature of the safety issue. As Don indicated, it is the person that paid for the survey who has the discretion to disclose or not disclose any information in the survey.

It is a unique opportunity during the buying process when the buyer knows more about the boat than the seller does.

I recently went through the buying process, and I disclosed the information on the survey that I chose to disclose. Most of what I disclosed was know to the seller as it was discovered during the sea trial.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Everybody is thinking the buyer is the bad guy here, but lets turn it around. Lets say the seller got a survey done and it showed numerous issues. There are MANY sellers in this world that would simply ignore that and sell the boat 'as-is', and of course not give a copy of the survey to the buyer. I'd bet a fair number of people posting in this thread have done this.

If I ever had a buyer try and tell me the surveyor wasn't allowed on his boat unless he gets a copy of the report, I'd kindly tell him where the nearest beach to pound is, and I'd move on to another boat. (actually I would probably ask HIM to pay for a surveyor, and I'd expect to see the results of the unadulterated report. So what he thinks about that.)

Back to my original point, a 50/50% split is fair. Both parties are benefiting from the results, why should the seller, who has no more further interest in the boat, be out money. The buyer will financially benefit from seeing the survey, so its entirely fair he spends a little to get the report.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Most surveyors (or even home inspectors) do not want the owner or buyer hovering over them. If I were a buyer and you refused to allow the surveyor do his job in peace,,, there are about a gaziilion other boats for sale.

The "Looking over his shoulder" statement had a "Figuratively Speaking" modifier attached to it.

I am not going to be breathing down his neck, but I am also not going to throw him the keys and say "Leave them under the carpet when your done" and walk away!

When he was done a simple "Find anything serious?" question would suffice.

 

[Don S]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

If the seller wants to know what was on the survey, have him talk to the ex-buyer, it's his survey.
The surveyor can not legally give the survey to the seller without the ex-buyers permission.

No one here knows the conversations of what went on between the buyer and seller, or what the boat looks like, or what was on the survey. So how can so many of you say for such fact what happened. :facepalm:

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

I am morally obliged to tell him of a potentially dangerous flaw exists in his boat. That has been done. I am not morally obligated to diagnosis the problem for him. Once advised, it's owners responsibility to remediate the situation, not mine.

Using that same logic;
You go for a life insurance physical.
The insurance company states they are Denying Coverage because their Doctor found a "Serious Life Threatening/Contagious Condition" during the exam.
They are not going to tell you what the condition is, but recommend you get your own Doctor to give you an exam to see if he can discover what it is before everyone else in the house gets it too!

If the boat is Potentially Dangerous the hazard effects not just the owner but all crew and passengers and possibly slip neighbors too.

The original question here was not if he should get a complete copy of the survey.
The question was "Should they disclose the "Serious Potentially Life Threatening Flaw/Condition" to the seller.
Not just that a Hazard exists, but the nature of the Hazard.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

If I ever had a seller try and tell me the surveyor wasn't allowed on his boat unless he gets a copy of the report, I'd kindly tell him where the nearest beach to pound is, and I'd move on to another boat. (actually I would probably ask HIM to pay for a surveyor, and I'd expect to see the results of the unadulterated report. So what he thinks about that.)

Just to pour some more gasoline on this fire . . .

When a seller agrees to allow a buyer to perform a survey, it is implied that the surveyor will have access to the boat, both in water and out of the water, as deemed necessary to perform the survey.

Now, a seller does not have to agree to allow the buyer to have the boat surveyed, but once they do . . . they have granted access to the boat for such purpose. Additionally, if a seller were to refuse to allow the buyer to have a survey done, then it is clearly a smoking red flag to the buyer.

As I said before . . . I do think the buyer is not being resonable in not revealing the issue(s), particularly since he has no further interest in the boat . . . but I am leaning towards that wife (Admiral) 'veto' theory.

 

[spoilsofwar]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

Interesting thread

Without taking a moral stand about what the prospective buyer "should" do or speculating about why he might be trying to back out of the sale, I would say that if I had a survey done on a boat I was looking at, I would give the results to the owner regardless of outcome.

Why? Because I stand nothing to gain by not doing so. If you're trying to recoup some of the cost of the survey by getting the owner to split the cost in exchange for the information, then fine. If you're not doing that or interested in doing it, then why hold out? In the absence of ulterior motive, I just don't get it. Seems childish at best, and vindictive at worst.

 

[r.j.dawg]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

My co-worker had the surveyor that did the purchase survey for him 4 years ago go over the boat this afternoon. I ran into him quickly as I was leaving work and he was quite relieved that nothing was found. A couple of minor things like a port hole that should be re-bedded but other than that a clean survey. So, who ever had the wife (Admiral) 'veto' theory, you win the prize.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

... So, who ever had the wife (Admiral) 'veto' theory, you win the prize.

That just can't be, because Bubba says it isn't. (Good job though, Bubba, on looking up Canandian Law.)

But it's as all the reasonable folks on here have theorized. The buyer needed an excuse to back out, and he's being a jerk.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

...No, doctors operate under an entirely different set of rules. ...

Correct, but doctors operate under a much Stricter set of rules than boat/home inspectors.
Doctors are liable for misdiagnosing a condition, inspectors are not.
Doctors can not be forced to violate confidentiality, even by the courts, inspectors are free to speak at their own discretion.

...My co-worker had the survey ... go over the boat this afternoon. .. he was quite relieved that nothing was found. ...

There was either nothing to be found. (Most Likely), or he didn't find the "Fatal Flaw" or didn't consider the condition dangerous.
A dozen surveyors will produce a dozen different reports based on their individual opinions.

It is not a right or wrong issue, it is an opinion.
Most reasonable people would agree a fuel leak is dangerous.
A leaking porthole is a cosmetic issue to some, and a boat about to sink to others. An opinion.

This is why people will often reject the opinions of doctors and inspectors outright or get second opinions.
The buyer most likely wanted a way out.

It would be interesting to relay to the First Surveyor that a Second Survey was performed "Based on YOUR Report" that the boat has a dangerous flaw/condition and none were found.

He may reply with, "I never reported anything dangerous!" or "Those leaking portholes are a death trap!", or "How could he miss all that gasoline sloshing in the bilge?!"

Ex-Buyers opinion, "A boat with a leaking porthole is probably leaking at every other fitting, and is going sink quickly and without warning and drown my entire family! Scuttle that Scow! No Sale!"

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Marine Safety Disclosure

if i payed for a report and it stated a few problems and a safety issue then i would have to decied what the larger picture was. if the complete fix for the boat was $100 the seller would be screaming that i back out of a deal based on $100 dollars worth of repairs where my friends would be surporting me backing out as it shows the boat has not been cared for thus i may have further problems down the road. we all know that a boat that not taken care off will not last half as long as one thats been taken care of so would i be correct in thinking that anyone who doesnt bother fixing a bilge pump proberly doesnt bother to winterize either. i will not bother to go look at a boat where the pictures show trash all over the boat as i see this as a red flag. if i payed for the survey and it had a serious flaw with the boat i would tell the owner as pay back for trying to sell me a lemon.