Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Franki · Jan 14, 2004

Hi guys, I went out fishing last weekend.. and the second half of the trip was an unmitagated disaster.. For one thing, its really really hard to turn to port, and really easy to turn to starboard.. and when I go over a certain speed.. the boat hooks hard to starboard regardless of where the wheel is pointing.. (that happens at about 25-30 knots).. I assume I have to adjust the little tab that sticks down from the cav plate above the prop, but I've never done that before, any tips on getting it right? I also had a problem with power.. my main motor only puts out 9 amps, and thats only at higher revs.. at around idle I think the engine uses more power then it provides... meaning that I ended up with a flat battery pretty quickly moving from one fishing spot to another.. What did people do back when these motors where the norm?? was the Johnson 100HP only for recreational folks that basically went fast the whole time?? If it wasn't such a kludge, I'd try and work out how to fit a small jap car alternator in there.. Did any model of outboard come with an external mount alternator that could be adapted to fit? (I don't mean like the generators fitted to the old evinrude Larks, I mean an internally regulated alternator) right now the torgue steering is my biggest concern.. as I wasn't even able to get over 3500 rpm before it was happening. rgds Franki

OBJ · Jan 14, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Hi Franki.....looking at the back of the engine, losen the trim tab screw and turn the tab to starboard, the direction the rig is torquing to. This should help the problem. As far as your charging problem, maybe the rectifier is shot. Why not post the question in the Johnny/Rude forum for some help. Keep us posted....thanks.

Franki · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Hi outboardjim... I think the charging system is fine.. I have a voltage meter on it, and when running around 2500 RPM, the voltage is around 14-15 so I think thats ok... Its just that the charging system is so weak and starting the beast takes allot of juice.. I suspect that its just a case of needing a bigger battery, and a backup... I was just wondering what other people with Old Johnsons did in such cases. Thanks for the tip on the torque steering.. I guess its another trial and error thing. (like trying to get my Hummingbird Wide 1 transducer to give consistant readings. (been trying to do that for about 6 years now). Thanks again for the help. rgds Franki

rickdb1boat · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

I went out fishing last weekend.. and the second half of the trip was an unmitagated disaster..

Was the first half of the trip OK? Makes me wonder if the steering linkage is screwed up. Did you hit anything in the water? More info is needed..

Franki · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

First half of the trip was brilliant.. went about 30 miles downriver and fished.. only problem was the torque steering.. (Its not the steering itself, brand new box and cable.. smooth from lock to lock when out of the water.) The second day of fishing started going bad when the main motors starting battery didn't have enough juice to start the motor.. (100HP johnson V4) so I fired up the 6HP aux, but not enough power to steer against the really strong wind, waves and current, got smacked into a jetty.. lost canopy and broke my favority rod.. Anyway, found someone with a powerpoint and charged the starter battery, got the main motor going again, was to knackered to continue fishing.. (didn't sleep much on the boat) on the way home, wasn't watching where I was going... got about 800 meters into a shallow rock infested area before I released and turned around and slowed right down.. hit about 5 rocks before I got out of that area.. (water wasnt' clear enough to see the rocks) god knows how I got 800 meters in there at full speed without hitting anything, but it wasn't something I could repeat on the way out.. normally the depth warning on the fish finder would have allerted me to the fact that the water was less then a meter deep.. but its a **** hummingbird wide 1 and has never been consistant.. and anything over 5 knots leaves the screen blank, and its been in every angle all over the back of the transom.. I just can't find a transducer position/angle that works consistantly.. (I hate hummingbird with a passion) Lost a prop blade, and put a slight bend in the tip of the skeg... Then the fuse or whatever controlling the hydrolectric gearbox let go.. so it wouldn't go into gear.. so switched off the main motor and tried to use the aux to get out... **** thing choose that moment to not want to start.. so we had to throw out the anchor to stop from drifting into rocks.. After much nashing of teeth, I remembered that the hydrolectric gearcases default to forwards when they get no power at all.. so I pulled the hood and disconnected the two wires that run down to the gearcase.. and got home with only forward gear on the main motor with only 2 1/2 prop blades.. Thats the short story... I left out several of the less painful things that happened. (like diving in 20 feet of water looking for the brand new reel that went overboard when the jetty hit the rod it was on.. (found it too, but a short sighted person diving for something in deep murky water without glasses is kinda funny..). but I got home with the boat mostly intact.. 3rd degree sunburn on the bits of me I missed with suncream.. and feet so torn up from rocks that I could only hobble.. worse, we only caught two undersize fish... :-( would you class that as an unmitigated disaster?

rgds Franki

JasonJ · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Sounds like you had a lot of fun. Just remember, when you adjust the trim tab, do it in small increments, like 1/8th inch (or 3-4 millimeters) at a time and test drive it. It does not take much to correct for the torque. I had the same problem when I took my project boat out for the first time, and it only took a very small amount of turn towards direction of pull to fix the problem. As for electrical, test the rectifier, test the battery, make sure all connections are clean and tight. It could be the stator is weak and not generating enough AC. Good luck....

Franki · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Thanks for that Mr Jason, I am glad you told me to use small increments, I would have started with an inch and worked my way down otherwise.. As for the electrical system, the battery is near new and has always been kept fully charged. The electrical system is as good as I can make it.. I already replaced much of the wiring, soldering everything I could, multiple earth points in case one fails and anything else I could think of to make it more rebust.. The positive terminal fell off briefly when I was at 3000 rpm, but only for about 5-10 seconds, the motor was not effected at all.. kept running smooth as can be.. and the voltage always stays above 14 when above 2500 rpm.. so I'm more convinced that either my battery doesnt' have a high enough CCA for much cranking or the starter has some inner problem that makes it draw far to much current.. (how would I go about testing that?) It shows no sign of problem, but without some way of measuring current draw I have no way of knowing.. (I don't have any ammeter capable of that sort of current.) I am thinking of swapping it for my spare starter to see if that makes a difference.. I was most disappointed to learn that I only had a 9 amp charger, my boat has allot of lights, dash, nav, cabin, anchor etc... so its something of an annoyance that I have only 9amps. I'm thinking of trying to replace all the lights I can with LED diods to reduce power drain.. what do you think of LEDS as replacements? regards Franki

cobra 3.0 · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Sounds like a crappy battery. 9 amps is plenty for charging. (My battery charger is a 6 amp unit and it charges my large deep cycle with ease.)

Franki · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

I agree, 9 amps is enough to charge the battery.. but from the specs I looked at, the 9amps is only at higher revs.. not the sort of thing you do when moving from one fishing spot to another... I think thats what happened that day.. I moved the boat during the night 3 or 4 times.. and it never got over 2000 rpm in that time.. (usually not much above idle).. and at that speed, the charging system is not outputting much.. I have a solar panel that I normally put on the cabin roof to top it up during the day.. but I forgot to take it that day.. (will probably get a bigger one anyway..) Oh well.. I will setup a second bigger battery and keep the first one as a backup in case of probs.. more weight :-( but I don't want another trip like the last one. rgds Franki

Hooty · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

I think two batteries is gonna be the hot ticket for ya. There's been several good posting about using two batteries and a selector switch. Try the search function for details. c/6 Hooty

JasonJ · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

You said that the positive terminal fell off "breifly". There is always a high probability that the rectifier will get ruined if the battery terminal is removed while it is running, but the fact that it kept running with the battery terminal off indicates that the rectifier is working. I still wonder if the stator is weakening. As a comparison, on my old 69 Merc, at idle it produces around 13.5 volts, as soon as any throttle is given, 1000 rpm or more, it jumps to over 14 volts. The battery sits at around 12.5 volts when the engine is not running. You may want to check your voltage at idle and part throttle and see what your volts are at. Definately check you current draw as well. If you have a lot of lights and accessories on, it may not be keeping up. LEDs do save power from what I understand, but I have not used them to say how well they work on boats. Good luck

airman · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

If the charging system is able to maintain 14+ volts a bigger alternator won't help. The only way to get more amps is to use more volts to push them and anything much over 14 volts will damage the battery. Work on the rest of the system. Consider a dual battery system so you'll always be able to start. I haven't put any on my boat yet but LED's are awesome for reducing power use. As for the starter, take it to a starter shop and let them put it on a tester. They should be able to tell you something fairly cheaply, if not fix it. Or, get one of those inductive ammeters. I have no idea what they cost but there's no disassembly needed and you get a new tool when you're done. More tools is good! Fortunately your biggest problem (the steering) is very easy to fix.

walleyehed · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Don't overlook the fact that you may have "tweaked" your skeg in one direction enough that it may require straightening, and THEN adjust tab as needed, which by description, sounds like it needs moved about 1/4" to the right, looking from rear.

Franki · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Wow, thanks for all the great info guys... The skeg is only slightly bent at its tip.. I was planning on banging that staight again as there isn't enough bend for metal fatague to snap it... Already made a tab adjustment to the starboard of about 5mm for the torgue steering.. now just need to find a new prop so I can test it

Its also time to find the biggest nastiest marine battery I can lay my hands on... I have a 250 amp relay for switching between batteries.. so I will wire that puppy in so I can switch from the dash.. I am gonna need a bigger boat to fit all this stuff in soon..

rgds Franki

OBJ · Jan 15, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Franki...what size is the battery you are using for cranking? Didn't see it posted unless I missed it.

Franki · Jan 16, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Hi OBJ, The battery is a 260 CCA (just went and checked).. If its true what I read in another post that these motors need a 500 CCA battery.. then it would go along way to explaining why I ran this one down so quickly. Incidenlty, There was a small chip in the back end of the skeg.. about 4mm deep, so I ground a tappered step onto the back end of the skeg so it doesn't catch on stuff.. is that acceptable? rgds Franki

walleyehed · Jan 16, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Yes, on the skeg.....

airman · Jan 17, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

I made a comment earlier on using an inductive ammeter. Great idea if you happen to have an AC starter. Duh! My apologies...

OBJ · Jan 17, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Franki....do get a bigger battery. At least a 550CCA. And be sure its'a marine battery. They take a pounding better than the average auto battery. Good Luck and keep us posted.

Franki · Jan 17, 2004

Re: Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

Thanks guys... I plan to get the biggest marine battery I can find.. I'm also planning to cut a hole between the two middle stringers and built a battery box that sits only an inch or two from the hull of the boat.. directly in the middle so the big battery will not change the boats balance.. I'm also gonna try and work out how to unobtrusively move it as far forwards as I can, as I already have too much weight up the back already. (I'm also looking into a bow tank..). The last marine battery I bought died in the first year.. but I didn't know back then that a full discharge can kill a battery and I rather suspect that this may have happend. In Australia a manine battery can cost up to 700 dollars.. so its quite a purchase, but a necessary one I guess.. and as long as I keep my little trickly solar pannel hooked up, it should always by fully charged. (I'll check the fluid levels regularly, but the solar panels makers say thats not necessary as it stops when its charged.) thanks for the tips.. One other thing about australia that bites the big weeny, is that our ebay really sucks.. i looked up propellers, and there was not one... but ebay US had about 50... sometimes being in Australia really is a pain. rgds Franki

Massive Torque steering.. suggestions?

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