Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

evin300

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
384
Is the fuel-oil pump really that bad?<br /><br />Could it be, that far fewer engines have been destroyed than the old manual mix days?<br /><br />Is it possible that since pumps are so widely used, we only hear of the failures?<br /><br />How many motors failed using improper manual mixing of fuel-oil? or lack of any oil in the fuel?<br /><br />Of course, I would like to think that I am more trustworthy than some mechanical pump, but I did forget to add oil once, (blown motor) Or how about: "Oh, I will fill the tanks now and add the oil later trick"<br /><br />Are we just kidding ourselves thinking that because some pumps have failed that we are better off without them? (less the convenience) <br /><br />I wish there was data on the subject, but I bet some of the everyday mechanics from the old days and the current oil-pump era would have a good idea. Whats the real story here?
 

Philby

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 28, 2001
Messages
111
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Good question.<br /><br />I run a VRO on my evinrude. General feeling is not to trust them, and many peoplr disconnect them ( and there are numerous posts on how to do this ) They all put the fear of God into me. !<br /><br />However I have persisted withe the VRO because, if it continues to work, it makes a lot of sense. <br /><br />I think the problem is, if it does give up, its a big problem . One that could be avoided by a couple of seconds mixing your fuel.<br /><br />I'm going to carry on until I can afford a four stroke.<br /><br />Data on this would be great, because I'm sure there must be a massive proportion of people running fuel injection systems with no trouble.<br /><br />then again.......
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
4,876
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

You might find the data somewhere in the warranty files, but it will be tanted, I have seen 6/12 pumps changed that were ok. There were other problems, crushed/leaking oil supply line, old style filter that was not upgraded,(blew 2 powerheads),and the list gos on. The problem for me is you never no how much oil its is pumping,if any oil goes thru the pump alarm will not sound, it may 200/1 or 50/1. OMC class of May 1989 at Sunrise Floride, primary cause of powerhead failure was over heating and lack of lubrication. VRO had been in production for about 4 years at that time.
 

terryc

Seaman
Joined
Aug 18, 2001
Messages
56
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

I am always concerned about oil injction failiure also. i have a 1998 Yamaha 70HP with almost 1700 hours still working fine, but I still remain concerned. Would adding oil to the fuel at say 200/1 as an added precaution cause any problems, and would it be enough to assist in the event of the injection system failing. All comments would be greatly appreciated.
 

Fouled Plug

Ensign
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
935
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

I don't think 200:1 would do much good, even at idle. Maybe 100:1 is better than nothing, but then the carbon/plug fouling may be a problem with the oil in the gas and being injected. My brudder-in-law has a 1994 Yammy 90 that he's been thinking about disabling the injection on and premixing, but if it hasn't failed yet who knows? I will admit to not trusting something so vital to not conk out, but if it ain't broke.........
 

terryc

Seaman
Joined
Aug 18, 2001
Messages
56
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Thanks for your comments fouled plug, I have always apllied the same 'if it aint broke don't fix it' but when I'm six miles out to sea it's on my mind, i always think about Murphy's law, and some say murphy was an optimist! i've had my fair share or break downs at sea over the years with older motors, and the experience tends to make me cautious.
 

Rex

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 12, 2001
Messages
424
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

I would premix my own. that alot of money if<br />it would go out.<br />The oil pump are nice but not for the much <br />money.<br />If you do premix you know what your running.<br />Rex A Hubble :D :) ;)
 

ODDD1

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 23, 2001
Messages
1,054
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Evin...back up another half a step....for 60 years 2 cycle outboards were premix, and did fine...around 1980, things started to change....there were other 2 strokes [motorcycles] that had oil injection before then and it was a proven system...so what made it appear on outboards? Think about the guys who build an sell outboards...engineers dont want it, unwanted complexity....management? nope, increased cost to build........marketing? you betcha...we can eliminate the hassle and mess of mixing fuel!! Gawd we can sell this!! you end up with an add on that the engineers dont want to build and the boss dont want to pay for....every place they can save a nickel on the system, they do...it is amazing they got as reliable as the did....LOL..now as far as omc stuff i cant say, but on the black motors i see oil failures are split about 50-50 for premix[forgetting] vs. injection....pick yer poison...
 

Lark40

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
793
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Well, I've had outboards since 1958, and have yet to own a modern one with a pump, and never had a problem with my pre-mix.<br /><br />Have a 1960 Evinrude Lark right now, and always put the oil (24:1) in when I pull the gas nozzle out of the tanks. It's easy to remember when you have the oil bottles in front of you when you start to gas up.
 

Philby

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 28, 2001
Messages
111
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

I hear what everybody is saying , but I,m sticking with the VRO.<br /><br />If it ain't broke.......
 

evin300

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
384
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Thanks all for the input, ODDD1 and clanton a combined 53 years of wrenching! Wow! I know a mechanic in Tacoma who was the first female Mercury Master Mechanic, they are so busy, its hard if not impossible to get the kind of info you can find on this board.<br /><br />ODDD1 It was interesting to read about how injection systems came to be, your last sentence about "50/50 pick your poison" was a eyeopener for me. <br /><br />It seems that people are just as fallable as the pumps are, and by removing the pump, you open yourself up to the potential human error, of course the prevailing wisdom is: "I would never be so stupid as to forget to mix the oil".<br /><br />It appears that both sides of the issue can increase the odds in thier favor. The manual mixers can use good failsafe habits like Lark40 does.<br /><br />The oil pump people can follow good maintenance practices, and even replace very old pumps. In the case of OMC, update to the newer non-variable ratio pumps.<br /><br />Personally, I updated my 1989 pump in 1997, and will gladly leave it on. Thanks again
 

CLDBLSTL

Recruit
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Messages
1
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Has anyone heard of on Oil injection problems with the Evinrude EL-40 1998 model? The motor was an upgrade on the Bass Trackers.<br /><br />Thanks
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Clanton,<br />This is off topic but I gotta ask. Sunrise Florida in 1989...Did you know Marcello Gonzalez Sans? He was the warranty mgr for OMC International Commercial Division (S.America, Bahamas & Bermuda)at Sunrise during that period. I learned lots of good info from him.
 

nightstalker

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

You have to go with what you depend on the most. When I ran the VRO in my boat, I always worried about the system failing or the the horn malfunctioning, etc. Now that I pre-mix, I never give it a second thought. Just to be sure that I never forget to add the oil, I have a Penzoil emblem on the gunnel near the gas filler cap.<br />Stalker
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Me, too! :D For over 20 Years....
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

As said before, here we go again!<br /><br />I like oil injection. I don't have to worry about it, because I know.<br /><br />1. My horn works.<br /><br />2. I maintain it.<br /><br />Does everyone drive around wondering when their tires are going to go flat? Or, has everyone ponied up for "run flats"? Or, a central tire inflation system? I'll bet less than ten people on this board have checked their tires within the last 30 days. It all boils down to # 2 above.<br /><br />NO mechanical system is unfalible. However, I put a lot more trust in most of them than I do myself, especially as I get older. :p Besides, I do not like the hassle of mixing. I guess I could go back to paddling and be super safe!<br /><br />The product development scenario described above does not relate to reality. I've sat in many a product planning meeting and that's not how it goes.<br /><br />Competition drives innovation, not brain cramps.
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

I understand DJ. But some of us get set in our ways and it's hard to change from what has been working for a long time. We all know that VRO is reliable if you take care of it and it is the future for all outboards(In one form or another), but like I said, I'm an old dog and it's hard to teach me a new trick... ;)
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

The only way I would be on the pre-mix side would be if I had an older outboard and new that it had a history of failure eventually. Other than that I would maintain the oil injection. If you run your engine on say a Bass Boat and you are WOT all the time you will not have a problem with the performance. but if you idle or troll and do not run WOT all the time you will be less than satisfied with the results of premix on an engine designed for injection.
 

james roach

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 17, 2002
Messages
216
Re: Mechanically mix oil? Manually mix oil?

Mine trolls, cruises and runs wide open with no variances in performance and I premix. I use 9.99 penzoil oil and use 1 gallon of oil to 50 gallons of gas. Occasionally, I will decarbon it. My motor is 17 years old and runs great. My Sea Tow membership stays paid up so I dont worry about it. I PREMIX
 
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