Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

[Banditz]

I just bought a new boat to me...its a 19' bowrider. Made by glastron in 1986. It has the 165 fourbanger in it. I believe it to be a 470? No ext. alt, its behind the crank, and it has power steering. Anyway I have read many post on here about upping the power by making it a 4barrel. How would i go about this? I dont really need the extra as the boat will do a little over 46mph now..but I figure if its easy to do then why not?

Now, that being said, I am a huge fan of stock! Stock runs forever and doesnt make it hard on ya when you need parts. But that being said the other post say to use a stock 4 barrel...if that so then I would more or less stay stock and unless you guys know otherwise I think I would do it. Any pros? Cons?

Also, the alt. is putting out 12 volts most the time....but every once in awhile it jumps to 16! I guess this means I need that conversion kit?

And last...I have no idea what kind of gas mileage this baby gets...and the dang gauge does not work!! Anyone have a diagram to help me on the wireing? Or a rough idea of the kinda hours I can spend out on the lake without gettin stranded? Thanks!

 

[180shabah]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

All of your wire diagrams etc can be found in the factory manuals - they aer available for download in the adults only sticky at the top of this forum.

470's have enough issues already, you rerally don't want to add more stress to the equation by bumping the power.

 

[Banditz]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Thank you! Then I'll just stick with what I got now. No reason to mess with something that may make it a paperweight!

 

[solar7647]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

I just bought a new boat to me...its a 19' bowrider. Made by glastron in 1986. It has the 165 fourbanger in it. I believe it to be a 470? No ext. alt, its behind the crank, and it has power steering. Anyway I have read many post on here about upping the power by making it a 4barrel. How would i go about this? I dont really need the extra as the boat will do a little over 46mph now..but I figure if its easy to do then why not?

It will take a few parts that are very hard to come by to do. The larger Horse power versions of this engine have an oil cooler that is built in to the intake for the 4bbl carb....it requires an attachment to re rout oil flow to it and changes the configuration of the oil filter. Now all the parts needs just bolt on but are very hard to come by.....See the 3.7L rebuild link in my signiture. The thread goes through a rebuild of the 180hp version of that engine.

Now, that being said, I am a huge fan of stock! Stock runs forever and doesnt make it hard on ya when you need parts. But that being said the other post say to use a stock 4 barrel...if that so then I would more or less stay stock and unless you guys know otherwise I think I would do it. Any pros? Cons?

stock is a qwad jet......depending on the year the carb is it could be junk or good. You could find a marine holly but I believe it would require a spacer plate that can also be purchased because of the mounting bolts and the bottom opening are a little diff......not 100% sure thow

Also, the alt. is putting out 12 volts most the time....but every once in awhile it jumps to 16! I guess this means I need that conversion kit?

The charging system is one of the corks of this motor, I wouldnt say you need to upgrade to the conversion kit but it wouldnt hurt.

And last...I have no idea what kind of gas mileage this baby gets...and the dang gauge does not work!! Anyone have a diagram to help me on the wireing? Or a rough idea of the kinda hours I can spend out on the lake without gettin stranded? Thanks!

You will need to download the manual in the Adults only section to get the wiring......you will need the manual anyways. You will get about 5-6mpg depending on what you are doing. The length of time also depends on the tank size......Mine has 40g tank.....I can get through a hole weekend of one tank with some left over and thats doing it all....fishing....wakeboarding....tubing and so on.


You will most likly hear many bad thing about this engine on this site.....many for good reason......others not so much. If you keep proper care of the engine and not get to crazy with add ons they are strong and reliably.....many though dont see that proper care and end up going strieght down the tube....then they get bought by someone who only gets to deal with all the issues they have giving birth to all the 470/3.7L haters!

happy boating!

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Welcome to the 470 club. Couple things to keep an eye on. Watch for any coolant leakage from the waterpump on the front of the engine. There is a small weep hole in the lower starboard side. Leaking coolant indicates bad waterpump cam seals, and needs to be fixed asap. Keep an eye on the coolant level, if losing coolant need to find out where it is going. NEVER let it overheat. Change the impeller every two or three years. Head gaskets can be a problem with this engine, so check your compression at least once a year (I do mine at the end of the season). Sounds like you have a strong little motor there, have fun.

 

[Banditz]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Thanks guys! I am glad to hear some of these things...but also sad to hear others. But I have to admit, After havin a force outboard and posting in that part of the forum, i never expected to have so much info so fast in this thread! thank you all!

As for the conversion, I dont think I wanna do all that...like I said she runs pretty damn good now! I paid $500 for the entire boat! New paint, new interior, new seats, floor, and trailer tires. Only bad part...she didnt run! Now after changing points, and the cap...what you guys call a condensor...and new plugs along with wires, she purrs like a kitten! Well, also cleaned the fuel pump, and fuel filter too. But anyway...

The alt...will it stop doing what its doing? Or will I have to replace it? It will calm down and run at 12 volts after I restart it or after letting it run for awhile. I just dont wanna hurt the battery, or charging system. Thats my main concern.

Next, the heat exchanger was leaking..I took it off and someone had installed two gasket one on top of another. Then bent the plate by tightening the bolt so dang much! Makes no sense to me at all. I hammered it out, cleaned the plates and gasket, and put her back on with a tad of sealent...9 hours on the water and she has yet to drip at all!

Now, the leak up front..i have a very small leak in the front by the alt. After havin her out all day I saw where she had maybe 4-5 drips of coolant on the block. Looks like its coming from the water pump seal. Dunno...didnt take a good leak yet but will. As for cooling, also changed out all fluids and she ran at 130 degree's in a 96 degree day for over 8 hours...close to 9! ONLY when I gassed her up to 4500rpm did she even get to 150 degrees, but cooled down asap when I let off and she got below 4000rpm. So I guess its ok?

thank you guys so much! I love the new boat and she is a blast to drive. I down loaded and went over the manuel God i love this site! best source of info anywhere! i'll have that gauge fixed in the morning! LOL easy to do! thanks again guys!

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Now, the leak up front..i have a very small leak in the front by the alt. After havin her out all day I saw where she had maybe 4-5 drips of coolant on the block. Looks like its coming from the water pump seal.

Yeah waterpump cam seals, doesn't sound too bad, but should plan on replacing them when you get a chance. Read this: http://www.sterndrives.com/470information/470coolantleakrepair.html Don't worry, you don't need any special tools. The only concern is that you have enough room to pull the harmonic balancer Just a brief point on the seals: There are two seals, both face the coolant side, any coolant that leaks past the front seal is blocked by the second seal and leaks out of the weep hole. So it is very important that the weep hole be kept clear and open, otherwise leaking coolant could get past the second seal and into the crankcase. When you try it, let us know, lots of tips and tool suggestions here.

 

[Banditz]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Ok bro! Will do! Think I can make the rest of the season? Or should I go ahead and do it this weekend? I dont wanna mess up anything for a weekend of fun. Makes alot more sense to do it right the first time and play later. Easier on the wallet that way too!

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Just a few drops, have fun, if it were a steady stream, a lot more serious, just keep an eye on it. Study up on the procedure, lots of threads here and lots of guys have done it. If you go with the speedi sleeves, you will have to measure the end of the camshaft (dial caliper), and order the sleeves, so you might want to find a local source so the boat won't be laid up while you are waiting. I did not know about them when I did mine, but has held for 9 years. Depends on the condition of the cam surface. You might have to replace your timing chain tensioner, so contact your local mercruiser dealer to see if it is a stocked item. If you mess up the pan gasket when you take it apart, plan on cutting a new section from gasket stock (x-acto knife) rather than using an $80 gasket. enjoy.

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

That voltage issue is usually the voltage regulator bolted to the port side of the block which is water cooled and has a hose running thru it being fed with fresh cold seawater. They are expensive to replace, 4 or 500.00. Can get em on ebay used but I wouldn't dare try, too easy to get scammed on that one.

I made my own alt brackets by copying one for sale on ebay, bought the marine alternator, and used a piece of wire to template the belt. Breezeworks.com is a site dedicated to 470 engines. They also have conversion kits there.

I don't think any voltage output of 12's is charging the battery. Usually around 13.5 to 14 shows a good charge while running, 16 will probably toast some electronics maybe the batts.

I would carry an extra gal of Antifreeze/mix to add into the coolant if she starts getting a little warm from that seal leak, and do the job at the end of the season. Just keep an eye on it incase it gets worse.
Good Luck with her,
Eric

 

[nola mike]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

I just bought a new boat to me...its a 19' bowrider. Made by glastron in 1986. It has the 165 fourbanger in it. I believe it to be a 470? No ext. alt, its behind the crank, and it has power steering. Anyway I have read many post on here about upping the power by making it a 4barrel. How would i go about this? I dont really need the extra as the boat will do a little over 46mph now..but I figure if its easy to do then why not?

Now, that being said, I am a huge fan of stock! Stock runs forever and doesnt make it hard on ya when you need parts. But that being said the other post say to use a stock 4 barrel...if that so then I would more or less stay stock and unless you guys know otherwise I think I would do it. Any pros? Cons?

as mentioned, hard to come by parts--if not mentioned, i believe the intake mani is different as well.

Also, the alt. is putting out 12 volts most the time....but every once in awhile it jumps to 16! I guess this means I need that conversion kit?

mine does that too, if it makes you feel any better. i'd rather replace a $60 battery every few years (last was 4 years old) than deal with the voltage reg. i'm not sure that it's even abnormal...

And last...I have no idea what kind of gas mileage this baby gets...and the dang gauge does not work!!

i just gps'd mine, and it worked out to just over 3.5 mpg, which seemed kind of low. anyone with your 5-6 mpg claims done it with gps, or are y'all just guessing? sounds like we have the same boat btw--and if you want 5 free hp, your engine is a 170, not a 165...

 

[solar7647]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

i just gps'd mine, and it worked out to just over 3.5 mpg, which seemed kind of low. anyone with your 5-6 mpg claims done it with gps, or are y'all just guessing? sounds like we have the same boat btw--and if you want 5 free hp, your engine is a 170, not a 165...

I did mine the old fashion way. I filled the tank.......drove it five miles at an even RPM and then filled the the tank and saw how much gas I used. Then did the math.Its not perfect but seems close to what others have seemed to get.

I spend most of my time on the water at 22mph or less doing water sports so thats what I gauged mine on not pulling any one just cruising...if i remeber correctly it was only about 2500-3000 rpm.

There are also like 100 differant variblles that could change the out come boat to boat and day to day.

Not to forget the fuel quality and the timeing the engine is set to. I believe the timing was changed in 1987....not 100% sure on the date but I know thats when it was changed in the manuals printed 1987 and newer. But the factory setting was 8 degrees BTDC and then was changed to 4 because of fuel quality was damaging the engines.

 

[180shabah]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

i just gps'd mine, and it worked out to just over 3.5 mpg, which seemed kind of low.

Was this an average over a whole day/weekend?
Was this an instant reading at cruise speed - what speed?

 

[nola mike]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Was this an average over a whole day/weekend?
Was this an instant reading at cruise speed - what speed?

2 runs, 1 about 15 miles, 1 about 35. Both were at about 3k rpm/25-30 mph with a couple of wot runs. Average over those distances, gps distance and then fill up the tank.

 

[180shabah]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Mixed runs in a boat that size - 3.5 sounds good to me. You could probably tickle 5mpg under ideal conditions, but factor in ANY no wake, WOT, towing etc and the numbers will fluctuate.

FWIW - I get about the same average in a smaller, but fairly heavy, 18'er with a 4.3

 

[nola mike]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

now i'm real curious. i definitely had some starts/stops, low speed, etc. most of the mileage on the 35 mi trip was a fairly straight shot though. we'll give it another shot this weekend. i'll do maybe a 7 mi stretch at 3k rpm with some spare gas on board, see what we get under more controlled conditions. although i guess it doesn't matter, since prior were real life driving...

 

[Banditz]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

LOL hey nice boat! LOL mine looks just like yours except for the paint is red...not blue! Love the tower...want one pretty badly. Just gotta get the cash! How much was yours?



Ok, so deal with the voltage and buy new batteries every couple years...check! Now, will the battery charge at that level? Or will i have to pull it off and charge it myself? I meant to say it stays at 14...but will shoot up to 16 volts every once in awhile....sorry for the confusion.

And will fix the dang gauge today as god is my witness! LOL I really dont wanna be out on the water when it dies. I do know, when I was working on her and didnt know if gas was good or not in the tank, she drank a full 20oz bottle of gas in under a minute...!! I was like damn! But she runs good, back fires every once in a great while but not often, and stays cold. cant ask for much more than that. Plus at $500...I stole it!

 

[nola mike]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

LOL hey nice boat! LOL mine looks just like yours except for the paint is red...not blue! Love the tower...want one pretty badly. Just gotta get the cash! How much was yours?

free with purchase of 23 year old boat

And will fix the dang gauge today as god is my witness! !

heh, even my fuel gauge is flaky as well. you must have this one then:
http://www.classicglastron.com/1986_Glastron_X19.html

 

[Banditz]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Yep thats mine! Pretty cool how you found that page!

 

[Banditz]

Re: Merc. 470 165hp...a few questions...

Thanks alot man! that page had specs on it! I never knew the thing had a 27 gallon tank!!! That means I should be able to play for a long long time before I run out! Hell yeah!

But it says the boat only weighs in at 1150lbs..? That right? Doesnt seem right at all!