Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

mikmic2

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Jan 31, 2006
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I have a 1972 Merc 850 Inline 4. Serial# 3146873. It appears the idle is pretty high. The idle stops are resting on the seats, so I can't turn the idle down any further. The low speed jets are about 1 1/4 out. <br /><br />The compression is 160PSI on all but one cylinder. The other has about 159psi. What am I missing here? It appears to idle and run great, but the high idle is bothering me, as if you listen closely you can hear that this isn't good for the lower unit, because it makes a little rattle when it goes into gear. It isn't drastically high, but I would like it to turn the idle down further. <br /><br />One other problem. I received this boat with the lower unit spanner nut which backed out, and the bearing carrier was out as well. The whole assembly just pulled right out. I looked, and it all looked clean, so I replaced the spanner nut as the old nut seemed a little loose when I attempted to spin it back in. I also had to purchase a bearing assembly key, because that was lost when it came out. I also replaced the two propshaft seals, and assembled it back together with a different spanner nut, which fit much tighter. I kept and used the original spacers for the bearing carrier. I am assuming those are the things they use to adjust the backlash? <br /><br />I then ran it on some muffs, and it shifted fine, from forward to neutral and then to reverse. But I saw that it was leaking gear lube, out of the water pick up vents on the side of the lower unit. I removed the lower unit, and the driveshaft, would lift up enough to make the driveshaft wobble. If I pushed the driveshaft down in the lower unit, it tightened up and would spin true. I removed the water pump housing, and then the water pump base, and saw that it was leaking from there. The bearing and seat looks good. Is there some spacers or washers, between the pinion gear and housing, that would keep the driveshaft from lifting, and keep it tight to the bearing, so it doesn't lift and wobble? <br /><br />I have seen several other mercs of this vintage, spit the spanner nut and bearing carrier as well. What causes this? and what can one do to prevent this from happening in the future? I wouldn't care If I had to spot weld the spanner nut in place, to get a few more miles out of it. But, I have to take care of this lifting, and wobbling driveshaft. Everything looks good, as far as clean bearings and gears. It has a tight true propshaft, that spins freely. The spots on the driveshaft and propshaft where the seals ride looks smooth with no grooves. <br /><br />Could the driveshaft condition have caused the excessive force that blew out the bearing carrier? <br /><br />I just ordered a bearing carrier puller. Any other tool I might need that would come in handy to do this job right? Can't have enough tools you know. Besides I have another merc with lower unit problems, so it looks like I am going to need them anyways.<br /> <br />As usual, any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mike
 

mikmic2

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Jan 31, 2006
Messages
74
Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

I do have a clymer for this, and I was reading about the preload pin, on the tip of the driveshaft, which mine has. Does this pin keep the driveshaft pushed down? Because in the manual I cannot find anything about shimming the driveshaft in the lower unit to keep it down and tight. These manuals are kind of generic when it comes to lower units. So perhaps, I could get by with some new seals? I am going to guess, that when the lower unit is together, the preload pin applies the downward pressure on the driveshaft?<br /><br />So I just have to make sure I adjust the backlash on the forward and reverse gears, as there is no adjustment on the pinion. Am I correct in this assumption?
 

Chris1956

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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Billy, If your carbs are closed all the way at idle, and the speed is too high, it is likely your timing is too advanced. You might try to link and sync the ignition timing and carbs.<br /><br />It sounded like the bearing carrier would pop out? If that's true, you could drill a 1/8" hole in three places around the outside of the gearcase (flush with the nut) and install some aluminum pop rivits to hold the nut in place.<br /><br />My '77 Merc does not have the preload pin, so I am not sure of it's function. The nut under the pinion gear keeps the driveshaft in the gearcase, on my motor. I presume there are shims there as well to adjust the clearance. You definately need new lower unit seals. Buy the pump base unit, as it comes with new driveshaft seals.
 

mikmic2

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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Thanks for info on the timing. I do have clams time and sync thing around here somewhere. <br /><br />Mine has the preload pin, and I wondered what they were for, but I think I found out, but I am awaiting for someone to come along and set me straight. <br /><br />Thanks again Chris for the info.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

is the lock ring still behind the ring nut? if not thats why the nut backs off<br />some of the old units used shims under the lower water pump housing, sounds like someone has opened it up before and not reassembled it correctly<br />if the locking ring was bent over correctly the ring nut cannot move.
 

emckelvy

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Jan 16, 2004
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Sounds like you have a driveshaft with tapered bearing which does require a preload pin. This style of driveshaft will pull up as you described. Any backlash you set up with the lower unit gears should be checked while pushing down on the driveshaft to firmly seat it into the bearing. Make sure the preload pin is free to move, if it's bottomed out in the end of the driveshaft it won't do its job.<br /><br />The gearcase cover, (AKA "spanner nut") requires quite a bit of torque to seat it. Unless you've got the special tool or make one, you may not be able to get it tight enough. According to my Seloc book, 150 ft-lbs. <br /><br />Your leakage around the water pump area might be bad seals or eroded driveshaft. You didn't mention how the driveshaft looked in the seal area, but a motor of your year would have a mild steel driveshaft instead of stainless, unless the lower unit was upgraded with a newer one. <br /><br />The mild steel shafts rot away in the seal area and you can fix that by installing Speedi-Sleeves if the damage is not too bad; pulling the driveshaft and having the bad area built up with stainless, turned & straightened; and of course shaft replacement (very $$$). <br /><br />Re: fast idle, make sure you have no air leaks as that can cause high idle too. Check bleed hoses and also check the upper crankshaft seal for leakage (if you see a lot of oily deposits around the flywheel area be suspect).<br /><br />G'luck.......ed
 

mikmic2

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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Thanks everybody. Yes I do have the lock ring on the spanner nut. The driveshaft area around the seal looks good. At this point, it looks like I will check to make sure the preload pin is working correctly and change the two seals. Or maybe as someone else suggested, change the whole water pump base if it comes with both seals already. Then I have to get all the gaskets and reassemble. I already changed the propshaft seals.<br /><br /><br />The lower unit doesn't keep spitting the bearing carrier, at least I hope it won't. It looks like the spanner nut was partially stripped, like it got blew out without turning. <br /><br /><br />About the fast idle, what are bleed hoses? Thanks
 

mikmic2

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Messages
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

About that Pop rivet cure. What do you think about that? Anybody else done that? I kind of like the idea. I think maybe 4 rivets.
 

roger3645

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Aug 30, 2005
Messages
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Yes it will work. I used brass screws instead of the rivets. Has been working for the last 2 seasons.
 

mikmic2

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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Thanks for the info Roger. I think I will go for it. <br /><br />Anybody know about these bleed hoses I am supposed to check?
 

mikmic2

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Messages
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Can someone please tell me what they mean when they say bleed hoses? Where are these located?
 

Chris1956

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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Billy, I think the bleed hose is the 3/8" (or so) rubber hose located on the crankcase cover. If you look behind the carb bowls. you should see a black hose running between the carbs. If this leaks, air will get into the crankcase, making the mixture lean and raising the idle speed. It is also called the balance hose.
 

AEROCOOK

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Jul 28, 2004
Messages
872
Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

The bearing carrier was likely pushed out by water in the lower unit freezing and expanding, thats what happened to mine and a few other people I know.<br />Did the motor originate from a northern climate?
 

mikmic2

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Jan 31, 2006
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

West Central Wisconsin. Is that northern enough? LOL. Yes I suppose that could of been the culprit. <br /><br />Aerocook, you may be on to something. I can't believe that thought never crossed my mind.<br /><br />Now I have another issue as stated in the other thread. Thanks for the replies.
 

roger3645

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Messages
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Billy check the threads on your spanner nut and the threads of your lower unit make sure both are good. You may need a new spanner nut. A good cleaning of the LU threads and a new spanner nut took care of my problem and I was able to get rid of the brass screws. I agree with Aerocook. Leaking driveshaft seal, water in LU and freezing temps caused the carrier to be pushed out by ice. Be glad it didn't crack LU.
 

mikmic2

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Jan 31, 2006
Messages
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Well, it appears the timing was the issue on my high idle. All is well now. Thanks for all of the help.
 

roger3645

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Aug 30, 2005
Messages
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Re: Merc 850 High Idle, won't idle down. Lower unit spit Bearing Carrier.

Billybobbass your timing should be set at 21 degrees not at 27 as posted on the motor, And I believe that motor is a 1973.
 
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