Merc vs. Johnson question

dsford1982

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Jun 18, 2012
Messages
28
Hello,

Not sure if this is the right forum but....

I have a 73 Merc 115 that I had gone through last year and runs well. I just bought a boat with a tired looking 79ish Johnson 115. Which one should I use as I am selling the other?

Thank you.

Dan
 

wired247

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Oct 8, 2011
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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Hello,

Not sure if this is the right forum but....

I have a 73 Merc 115 that I had gone through last year and runs well. I just bought a boat with a tired looking 79ish Johnson 115. Which one should I use as I am selling the other?

Thank you.

Dan

The Johnson is a better all around motor but if the merc has a fresh rebuild and runs well just go with the merc. Or sell it and rebuild the Johnson.
 

mr 88

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

A quality compression test should point you in the right direction.
 

Chris1956

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Dan, The Merc is like a throughbred race horse, and the Johnny is a plow horse, IMHO. Are pulling a wagon or do you just want to ride the horse. Of course, condition of the motor is real important.

How about that metaphor?
 

wired247

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Plow horses are reliable and get you where you need to go. Thoroughbreds are the drama queens of horses. They run great WHEN they are running great. The rest of the time you spend a lot of money and time caring for them especially when they are past their prime. The analogy carries over directly.

The Johnson is easier to work on, has a much better charging system, better more modern design of carburetors, gets better gas mileage,vastly superior ignition and is generally more reliable and can quite easily get boosted up into the 140 HP range with a few bolt ons. Both motors being in a silmilar state of tune and condition , a 1973 115 Merc inline in a race against a 79-81 115 Johnson V4 is going to lose. The Mercury is a 1950's design that lasted until the late 70's relatively intact and for the most part uncopied. The V4 Johnson is a 70's design that lasted until the late 90's and can be considered the pattern for most modern outboards Mercury included. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery .
 

Chris1956

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Gee Wired, I believe you switched the names around. The Johnny V4 is based upon the '58 Fat-Fifty. It was all bottom end power and no real mid-range or top end power. I had two of them. You could put it on a work boat or a surfboard, and you would get the same WOT performance - 27MPH. An inline Merc 500 would kill it in a race.

Whe Merc introduced it's first v-engine in 1976, it was a 60* V6, that became the standard. OMC needed to copy it, to compete.

The IL6 in question will blow the doors off that V4 motor on a light hull. I suppose you could choose a heavy enough boat that would allow the Johnny to waddle a bit faster than the Merc...
 

wired247

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Gee Wired, I believe you switched the names around. The Johnny V4 is based upon the '58 Fat-Fifty. It was all bottom end power and no real mid-range or top end power. I had two of them. You could put it on a work boat or a surfboard, and you would get the same WOT performance - 27MPH. An inline Merc 500 would kill it in a race.

Whe Merc introduced it's first v-engine in 1976, it was a 60* V6, that became the standard. OMC needed to copy it, to compete.

The IL6 in question will blow the doors off that V4 motor on a light hull. I suppose you could choose a heavy enough boat that would allow the Johnny to waddle a bit faster than the Merc...


Having owned half a dozen of the 90's, 115's and especially 140's that would run circles around inline Mercury's with their "mystery" carbs and beyond hokey reed setups I will tend to disagree.

To Mercury's credit they abandoned that problematic inline 6 concept in the 80's and put their cart behind their excellent V6's.
 

Chinewalker

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8,902
Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Being that both motors were approx. 99-100 cubes, when properly set up, they produced similar results on similar hulls. The 115 Merc will run about the same as a Johnson 115, all else being equal. One may, in the end, be faster than the other, but the differences are often perception only, rather than empirically based. For every "My Merc/Johnson is faster than his Johnson/Merc" you'll find set-ups that really aren't that close. Throw a power prop on a Merc and it'll pull just fine. Throw a speed prop on a Johnson and it'll flat out boogie on the right hull. Much of the perception about Mercurys being faster has been cultivated over nearly 75 years of marketing, racing and repeated old wives tales. Yes, Mercury won more races - they also raced more races and rigged many of the circuits to ONLY run Mercurys. When they were running with other brands on equal footing, their dominance was less pronounced. Who won often during a given season was usually a result of who had the bigger tech advances that year. During the 1970s there was a lot of back and forth as both sides invested heavily into racing. Economics of the 1980s meant OMC (Evinrude and Johnson) scaled back, and eventually eliminated their racing efforts.

Getting back to the initial question, if your current motor runs well and you're happy with it, keep it. You've spent some money on it and it runs well. If and when it gives up the ghost, go with something that maybe isn't quite so "tired looking". A 6-year jump in age from a known quantity to an unknown, isn't a huge improvement, regardless of the name on the cowling.
 

sutor623

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

This is exactly what I love about this forum...
 

Chris1956

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Bloody peacemaker.....you are confusing us with the facts, when we already had our minds made up!
 

dsford1982

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Jun 18, 2012
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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

I really do appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

I got the 73 Mercury with a 71 Tahiti that I planned on restoring. I have everything to do it except a place to do it now that I just moved so I bought a 95 Glastron with the unknown but rough looking 81 Johnson 115. I think the Merc looks awesome! It ran great for me for the two years I used it but has been on the stand since earlier this year. My dilemma is do I go with the older Merc that runs well, even though it goes through fuel like it's free, or sell it with the Tahiti to someone and run the Johnson until this winter and make a decision as to where to go from there. I have looked at newer outboards and if I can sell both engines (and project Tahiti) I can justify a $3k-$4k purchase.

I hate to sell the Merc with the Tahiti and then regret it cuz I will never get back what I have into it.....who does. I also realize that the Johnson is 8 years newer. I will take the Johnson into a local shop and have the condition checked so that I can make a better decision. the Glastron looks heavy. I want to go fast. I realize not as fast as the Tahiti until I get a larger engine.

So again, I so appreciate your thoughts. I'm not looking to fish with this boat but to have a fun family boat.

Should I bail on both engines and concentrate on a new one? Has anyone had experience with any used o/b distributors? Also, Anyone want an awesome 16' Tahiti project?

BTW, I'm kinda new to forums, didn't know what I started :) but loved the popcorn icon! LOL!

Thank you.

Dan
Richland, WA
 

Chinewalker

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

The Johnson may have one card up its sleeve that the Merc does not. The Johnson may have power trim - and even if it doesn't, it is much easier, and generally less expensive, to add to the Johnson than it is to the Merc. Power trim was a rarity in 1973 and even if the Merc had it, it was a complex affair with hydraulic lines, etc. running into the boat. The Johnson's is a self-contained unit with a simple wiring and solenoid harness to run it. Food for thought, particularly if you want that last mph or two...
 

Chris1956

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

I always thought my Il6 was a fuel hog, until I got my Johnny and Merc V6 motors. They really suck it down with their six carbs each (actually three 2bbl on the merc V6). Not sure I would let fuel usage be the deciding factor.
 

mr 88

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Try the set up as is and if you do not like it try the Merc then make your choice.What is rough looking ? Cosmetic or mechanical ?
I really do appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

I got the 73 Mercury with a 71 Tahiti that I planned on restoring. I have everything to do it except a place to do it now that I just moved so I bought a 95 Glastron with the unknown but rough looking 81 Johnson 115. I think the Merc looks awesome! It ran great for me for the two years I used it but has been on the stand since earlier this year.
 

dsford1982

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Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

Great thoughts. Thank you.

I had almost forgotten about the exterior hydraulic pump for the tilt/trim on the Merc. Yes my Merc has both.

I like the idea of running the Johnston and making a determination from that. I plan on taking into the local shop and have it checked out before I do too much more.

One more question: When they put the Johnston on this boat they put exterior controls on. The switch for the tilt is out but worse than that is that they look like *&^$. What are my options for a single lever control similar to what was in the Glastron previously? BTW. I did get the controls, or whats left of them, from the FORCE motor that was originally on the boat.

Thanks everyone.

Dan
 

jimmbo

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

I've owned both and I thought the Merc was better engineered and overall a better engine. On the same boat my 115 merc was faster than my 140 Evinrude, burned less fuel and idled smoother. Engineering on the Merc was impressive, Reeds were mounted on blocks surrounding the crankshaft inside the crankcase instead of an external manifold. Made for a smaller crankcase volume which made for improved fuel air transfer to combustion chamber. 6 cylinder versus 4, smaller lighter pistons, shorter stroke, made for smoother power production. Inductionwise the 6s were 3 two cylinder engines while exhaust wise it was 2 three cylinder engines, which made for a tuned exhaust system that was easier to design to be useful over a much grater RPM range than could be done with a 4.
Power trim was first intoduced on mercs in 1966, Omc didn't get round to it until 1973
 
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wired247

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Re: Merc vs. Johnson question

I've owned both and I thought the Merc was better engineered and overall a better engine. On the same boat my 115 merc was faster than my 140 Evinrude, burned less fuel and idled smoother. Engineering on the Merc was impressive, Reeds were mounted on blocks surrounding the crankshaft inside the crankcase instead of an external manifold. Made for a smaller crankcase volume which made for improved fuel air transfer to combustion chamber. 6 cylinder versus 4, smaller lighter pistons, shorter stroke, made for smoother power production. Inductionwise the 6s were 3 two cylinder engines while exhaust wise it was 2 three cylinder engines, which made for a tuned exhaust system that was easier to design to be useful over a much grater RPM range than could be done with a 4.
Power trim was first intoduced on mercs in 1966, Omc didn't get round to it until 1973

Thats one way to look at it . The other way is you have a longer stroke with the 4 cylinder which gives you much more low end torque with good usable power up to 6000 RPM . You dont have the reed blocks straddling the crank with a less than ideal labyrinth seal reed block arrangement that is costly or impossible to replace. The V4 and V6 engines give you a much easier breathing one venturi per cylinder. The 3 circuit V4 carbs idle much smoother and transition off idle much better than the 2 circuit L6 carbs. Mercury finally got the single cylinder trim setup right in the late 70's and got into the same sort of ignition and charging system that OMC had been using for a decade. Blind bored blocks, no cylinder heads, etc. If you look at half of the questions on this website they usually start with "my inline won't ....".

I went from 140 HP Johnson to 1500 Merc. Both were rebuilt. Hell, the 1500 was built with all new parts. Both ran a 19 pitch prop. The 1500 ran 51 MPH. The 140 ran 54 mph and had the world of difference on the bottom end. With a 23 pitch prop the 140 ran 62 MPH. The 1500 woldnt spin a 21 pitch past 7 MPH until I drilled big vent holes in it and never went over 55 MPH. I was happy to get rid of that turd.
 
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