Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

No buddy it is a mercruiser block with a ford 460 head...

Its got the big ol HONKIN 460 bore as well. Thats why it's got all that umph

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,.... 2 questions,...
1,.. What motor are you replacing,..??
2,.. Why o Why are you choosin' the Infamous 470,..??

I can't think of a Worse choice...

I can......a FORD 460!

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

anybody have any ideas on how to find a bellhousing off a 470 mie (inboard)?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

You probably would have to find one either in a boat set up that way or go to a "marine" wrecking yard.......

Evidently they didn't use that engine in very many inboards.



Regards,


Rick

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

I don't guess there is a national database for marine wrecking yard stock like there is for auto wrecking yard stock is there? I was hoping there would be an online solution. When I want a weird part for my weird car I go to the car club forum for my weird car or search the national database of recycler inventory.

Still hoping someone who has a 470 mie will come upon this thread and share some pictures but I'm going ahead and digging in. I pulled out my old engine bed yesterday and did most of the machine work for installing the Johnson crank mounted raw water pump I pulled off my crusader. The bolt pattern is the same but there was no flange in the pulley to align the pump dead center with the crank. The base of the pump is 4.25" so I threw the pulley into the 4 jaw scroll chuck on my machining center table to work from an automatic center and machined a 0.1000" deep circular pocket. The pump is now a press fit into the pulley so the mounting bolts suck it in perfectly centered with the pulley.

http://www.ecutune.com/boat/DSC_8150.jpg


If you look at the picture of the pulley you'll see there are grey inserts in the bolt holes so the 3/8-16 mounting bolts are tight in the holes. Turns out the reason for this is they are using the bolts to line the pulley up with the crank. The flange on the ballancer is 4.56"; the flange on the pulley is 4.375". I'm going to stick with this alignment system for now and suspect it will work well enough. If I find it doesn't run true enough for my liking I'll machine a little more off the back of the pulley and machine a bushing to align the alternator pulley with the ballancer.

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Here's the Johnson pump off the crusader mounted on the 190. It only takes a couple inches of space forward of the alternator pulley. The raw water hose that used to go to the outdrive loops around to the pump outlet nicely; I just need to get a smaller hose barb to fit it.

http://www.ecutune.com/boat/DSC_8152.jpg

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Unable to find a mie 470 bell housing I slapped the mercruiser io bellhousing off my 190 onto my cnc machining center. Using a circle center finding routine on the machining center I found the center of the existing opening and used that as an estimate of the centerline of the crankshaft. Working from that center point I drilled a borg warner bolt pattern into the bellhousing, machined an 8.25" opening, machined a 10" od mating surface for a ring to extend the bellhousing to the correct depth, and machined off the mount points while leaving their bases to add rigidity to the whole thing. It popped out of the vice at one point and machined off some metal that wasn't supposed to get machined off but that will get covered by the ring and weld and won't effect functionality.

After machining the bell housing I bolted it back to the engine and used a dial indicator mounted to the flywheel to check how off center the machine work was from the true centerline of the crank.

I machined a 10" od, 8.25" id, 1.78" thick ring out of a 10" square of 2" thick 6061t6 aluminum plate and drilled the borg warner bolt pattern into it. Using the runout measurement from the bellhousing I machined the outer edge on the side mating to the bellhousing that much smaller so I could mount it exactly at true center with the crank centerline. I tapped the holes on the back side so I could bolt it to the bellhousing to check/set center before giving it to the welder. I have a 6" spiral point pulley tap on the way so I can continue threading the holes all the way through for the transmission mounting bolts.

 

[Don S]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

I machined a 10" od, 8.25" id, 1.78" thick ring out of a 10" square of 2" thick 6061t6 aluminum plate and drilled the borg warner bolt pattern into it.

It's great you can do this, but I would bet that 99% of those with 470's are complaining about the cost of a bellows, or cam seal speedy sleeve, let alont that size chunk of aluminum and the equipment to machine it.

By all means keep up with your upgrade, but PLEASE, keep your pictures to 640 max width per the forum rules.

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

I've also decided against using the 1 to 1 direct drive borg warner velvet drive (which is the transmission that came on the mie 470). I got a brand new zf marine zf25a taken off a new volkswagon marine engine. This transmission has an 8 degree down angle output so I can mount the engine at less of an angle. It can also run in either direction as forward so I can use a rh prop. It also has an aluminum case so it only weighs 53lbs compared to the 100lbs of the velvet drive. It has a 2 to 1 ratio so I will need a much larger prop now. I'm going to mount the engine at 7 degrees which with the 8 degree down angle will give me 15 degrees total. This will give me the clearance for the 17" prop the calculator says I will need now but requires that I redo the shaft log and change the strut (they are currently 12 degrees).

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

sorry, didn't know. I'll edit them.

It's great you can do this, but I would bet that 99% of those with 470's are complaining about the cost of a bellows, or cam seal speedy sleeve, let alont that size chunk of aluminum and the equipment to machine it.

By all means keep up with your upgrade, but PLEASE, keep your pictures to 640 max width per the forum rules.

 

[generator12]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Just an hour ago I noticed a 470 for sale in the Milwaukee Craigslist. Here's a link: http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/boa/2003395557.html

The guy wants $200 for a siezed engine. Could be just what you need for your project though. The text says:

motor is seized everything elese is good complete motor with out drive call 262-770-7251 can send pic thru cell

Good luck.

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Thanks generator but I was looking for mie 470 specific parts; that's the direct drive inboard motor as opposed to the mcm 470 which is the outdrive version.

I've downsized the last pictures to the 640 max width so I'll edit the prior posts back to images so it's apparant to others that I already have a 3.7 and am running with modifying it.

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

I've decided to rebuild the engine while I'm at it. I've gone with a genuine mercruiser overhaul gasket set. I greatly prefer high silicon aluminum bearings over tri-metal bearings but have only been able to find them for the camshaft bearings. The clevite cam bearings sh-1111s are al3 so I'm going with them. King doesn't seem to make bearings for this engine.

I was assuming I would be able to break a set of 460 rod bearings to get high silicon aluminum rod bearings for this engine but it doesn't look like it. Both the Clevite and Federal part numbers for the rod bearings didn't seem to match up with the idea that they are 460 bearings so I asked Mahle tech support: "Are there Al versions of the bearings used in your MS1741p main bearing and CB1434p rod bearing sets? I would break them out of a larger set if necessary.
"

The response I got was: "Unfortunately not. I'd always heard that the Merc was 1/2 a 460 Ford, but your rod bearings are substantially narrower and mains a different shaft diameter!"

So I'm thinking I better stick with the officially designated parts. The Federal main bearings are less expensive than the Clevite bearings and the Clevite rod bearings are less expensive than the Federal bearings. They are all tri-metal bearings so I'm not sure if there is any difference between them--figure I'd ask here in case there are any experienced marine engine builders who want to throw in their two cents. Like I said in the begining I always use high silicon aluminum bearings. Anyone have any reason to recomend one set over the other?

rod bearings
Mahle/Clevite: CB1434P
Federal: 4-4180CP

Main bearings:
Mahle/Clevite: MS1741P
Federal: 7205M

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Also, does anyone have any opionon on/advice tripple chrome plated vs bare iron top rings for marine use?

 

[Dakota47]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Whats wrong with putting a 5.7 in it?? more power the better.

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

lol, geez man

I like the 3.7 because it's 400 to 500 lbs lighter and still has enough power to push the boat around nicely.

Whats wrong with putting a 5.7 in it?? more power the better.

 

[artificialreef]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

If moneys no object. Dont they make an Aluminum head for this motor? Excuse me if it was in the string.

 

[NHGuy]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

He's not going to rip around he's going crabbing. 470 will do nicely in the middle of the boat. It will balance nicely, won't go nose high under moderate throttle either.

 

[a1nowell]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Try www.breezeworks.net, it's a 470 only site, parts and forum.

 

[usfwalden]

Re: Mercruiser 470 inboard -- stern drive to inboard

Money is always an object. I'm rebuilding the engine so I know what I have and that I won't end up having to pull it back out. Rebuilding an engine isn't a big deal for me; knowing the condition of the engine in my boat is.

This engine has higher compression in the front working to lower in the back so it has some sort of issue that should be addressed. Maybe it's a leaking head gasket or maybe the head was machined unevenly. I don't know the condition of the cam or crank seals so I have to presume they are/might be old and hardened so I want to replace them so they don't start cutting grooves into the cam and crank. That's enough gaskets and seals to justify buying the overhaul gasket set. Piston rings, bearings, and honing cost me half what the overhaul gasket set does so everything adds up to going ahead and doing a complete rebuild.