Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI Won't Start - No Sparky

[tpenfield]

Do make sure they have them, some list but don't have them, back order.

Could get one to get you thru the season and then rebuild the other.

Wonder what GM dealer could get them for

Quick update . . .

The ACDelco distributors shipped yesterday from OH. . . just departed Buffalo NY this morning, should be delivered tomorrow (Thursday) :thumb: So, maybe I can install them on Friday.

 

[achris]

...Is there anyway to test the ignition module? :noidea:...

Ummm. You have 2 engines, right?

First search (for a new module)....

https://www.amazon.com/Sierra-Intern...TCEABV1QD27TRM

Chris....

 

[tpenfield]

Update . . .

The distributors arrived and I looked them over. They did not have J1171 stamped on them as did the original distributor. The part that I was sold clearly stated "SAE J1171 certified for marine applications" in the detail information.

So, I did a little bit of research . . . the parts are a Delphi Electronics (formerly ACDelco - I went to their factory in beautiful Kokomo, Indiana way back in about 1984 ) P/N "CZ20001" and the information on the Delphi website says that it is not marine approved. :facepalm:

Sooo, I have an inquiry into the supplier to see what they have to say

Physically, the part looks identical to the original distributor, and I'm not sure what physical features makes it 'Marine Approved' i.e, 'spark suppressed' . . . :noidea: I had assumed it was the spark arresting screens in the base plate (which they both have) , perhaps there is more to it . . . BUT for now I'm going to hold off on installing them until I get some word back from the seller.

The original distributor is marked on the outside of the base plate with . . .

"J1171" "1103799" "5J18"

The distributors I received are marked with . . .

"1104096" "8L15"

I have found a reference on the Internet to "1103799", but nothing referring to "1104096" I assume those are going to be GM numbers (or something).

Oh, the pain of it all . . . :facepalm:

 

[alldodge]

I to would be interested in the difference other then certification. With the DoD it was the same part just was also tested

 

[tpenfield]

I too would be interested in the difference other than certification. With the DoD it was the same part just was also tested

Me too

It might be that Delphi does not provide the certification :noidea:

I have some additional numbers that the Delphi part (CZ20001) has been re-labeled as:

PSI-33000250
MMD Powerline 33000250

These are both sold as marine distributors :noidea:

The packing list shows the item as PSI-33000250

Scott Danforth got any automotive/marine part reference resources to check these?

 

[Scott Danforth]

let me look

 

[nola mike]

Did you ever try swapping the distributors first? Beauty of 2 engines...

 

[tpenfield]

let me look

Thanks . . . :clap2:

The numbers 'in play' are

Original part = 1103799 (J1171)

Received part = 1104096 (stamped on base), Delphi CZ20001 (manufacturer's box label), PSI-33000250 packing list/pick list, Z33000250 supplier label - placed over manufacturer's label. . . '33000250' might be the aftermarket part.

UPC = 00689604125328

Delphi label has description of : "HEI - 99MM Distributor"

I also found references to the following numbers . . . 'DTS1830', '30-1830', 'T1830', 'DELCZ20001'




Several marine part suppliers are selling the '33000250' as a marine approved (J1171) part . . . :noidea: So, I am wondering if the certification is coming from the aftermarket supplier, not from Delphi ?

 

[tpenfield]

Did you ever try swapping the distributors first? Beauty of 2 engines...

No, too much other stuff going on over the holiday weekend . . .

 

[tpenfield]

Quick update . . .

I called the supplier and spoke to one of their sales people. They source the Delphi distributors through Power Solutions International (PSI) - they are going to try to get me the documentation of it being SAEJ1171 certified.

 

[Scott Danforth]

the only thing I am finding on the Delphi CZ20001 is which is automotive

confirmed by the Delphi

https://partcat.com/delphi?_ga=2.183602990.906452420.1599847297-1652745982.1599847297

 

[Scott Danforth]

Quick update . . .

I called the supplier and spoke to one of their sales people. They source the Delphi distributors through Power Solutions International (PSI) - they are going to try to get me the documentation of it being SAEJ1171 certified.

if you have issues getting information from PSI, let me know. I know a few people high-up the chain at PSI.

 

[Scott Danforth]

guessing this is what you ordered?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-AC-Del...erCruiser-Volvo-556024-RA107039-/223735680310

I have a text into a buddy of mine at PSI to check if their part number 33000250 is J1171 compliant.

 

[tpenfield]

if you have issues getting information from PSI, let me know. I know a few people high-up the chain at PSI.

Yes, thank you . . . I sent an email along with supporting information. But any direct sources to the engineering/tech group might result in a faster response. . . even though it is Friday PM.

The only thing (so far) that seems to separate an automotive Dizzy from a marine rated one is the screens on the vents. :noidea: The Delphi ones have the screens . . .

 

[tpenfield]

guessing this is what you ordered?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-AC-Del...erCruiser-Volvo-556024-RA107039-/223735680310

I have a text into a buddy of mine at PSI to check if their part number 33000250 is J1171 compliant.

Yes . . . I talked to a Kevin Caldwell at Marine Parts Source. He sent me a copy of the installation instructions for the upgrade kit, which includes the dizzy, and it states everything in the kit is USCG approved . . . but I'd like something a little more direct & specific to the 33000250 dizzy.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Will let you know if I hear anything.

 

[tpenfield]

Will let you know if I hear anything.

Thanks, Scott . . . I appreciate your help. :thumb:

 

[tpenfield]

Update:

I put the new distributor in . . . The engine started right up :thumb:

The only issue that I had was that when I put the ignition in base timing mode ( via the Diacom software) the engine shut off. It would not start . . . So, I took it out of base timing mode and did the best I could timing the engine in regular mode.

Not sure why the base timing mode would shut the ignition off. :noidea:

thoughts ?

 

[alldodge]

Don't know but try base timing using a paper clip

 

[tpenfield]

Quick update:

I have received email and a phone call from Marine Parts Source with assurances that the distributors are marine rated, but nothing of documented evidence of such. So, maybe the inquiries into the next level of the supply chain will provide something.

It seems like the supply chain looks something like this

1) Delphi Electronics (Kokomo, IN) - manufacturer of the part (CZ20001)
2) Power Solutions International (Wood Dale, IL) - re-brands the part (33000250)
3) Marine Parts Source - (White House, TN) - Sells the part (PSI-33000250)

I have also come across a company/brand called "MMD Powerline" selling a distributor with that same part number (33000250) Not sure if MMD Powerline is related to PSI :noidea: . Anyone heard of "MMD Powerline"?

Given that Delhpi indicates that the part is not 'marine approved', I am also concerned about the advance curve of the distributor. Can anyone school me on 'advance curve' for marine applications?

I am confident that the distributor is of the correct physical features for J1171, but I am wondering about the 'advance curve' . . . if that is for marine or if it is for automotive. Not sure what the difference may be :noidea:

For what I've been able to gather the 'advance curve' would be how much the distributor would advance its timing and at what RPM, leading to a maximum advance at a certain RPM. It seems like the advance would start around 900-1000 RPM and then go to a max of 20-22˚ at 3000 (ish) RPM. All this being additive to the BASE timing of 8˚ BTDC.

Not sure how much the distributor controls this vs. the ECM (MEFI-1) :noidea:

I suppose I can run the Diacom Software and record the data while I take the boat out for a run and compare data from each engine . . .