mercruiser I/O top end problem

slshoe

Cadet
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
14
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

The one thats on it says Michigan Wheel 03102514 X 19 is it safe to assume its a 19" pitch also? is this a descent size for this motor and boat size?
 

180shabah

Rear Admiral
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Mar 26, 2005
Messages
4,995
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

Yes it is a 19" pitch also.

You should be cruising along quite nicely at 5500RPM(which is still too high). Are you really spinning that fast? You need to verify the accuracy of your tach.
 

slshoe

Cadet
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Aug 25, 2007
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

what do I need to verify the rpm's, and how can I do it?
 

big_hoovie

Recruit
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Aug 27, 2007
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

there are a couple of ways to verify the engine speed - a shop tach(looks kind of like a multimeter), some digital multimeters have a tach function, there are a few different digital tachs on the market, or you could find a known good tach and hook that up(assuming your tach is bad, and not the boat harness, or wiring between engine and instruments).

Question about your engine speed - what was your idle speed(according to your tach) it should be around 600rpm.

Regarding the inability to plane, is there anyway you can try different props? I would suggest a 17" pitch to start.

gl
 

farmboy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
33
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

Great old boat. My SeaRay is a 77-888, 22' cutty. I have it propped with a 19 pitch prop. That is perfect. By the sound of your description of the engine condition (spark plugs, wires, ect.) It would seem this old workhorse has not seen proper maintenance for a long while. The first thing I would do is DRAIN the sour fuel completely out of the fuel tank. You can do this syphon job via the tank outlet and just transfer the fuel to 6 gallon gas cans (you can let your broke son in law burn the stuff in his car or lawnmower). Fresh fuel will make a difference. I had concerns about modern un-leaded fuel in my old boat as that 302 is designed to run with leaded gas. Mine does well with 87 octane and factory timing specs. Also, what is the condition of the prop blades? Any nicks, bends, cracks, ect. will drastically reduce the boats top end.
 

180shabah

Rear Admiral
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Mar 26, 2005
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

Bad fuel would not cause an engine to over-rev 1000RPM.
 

farmboy

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Oct 11, 2006
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

I have to agree with you 180 shaba, bad fuel does not equal high revs. The prop is stamped 19 pitch. I would assume that to be true although an inspection by a prop builder would confirm. I am willing to wait until this thread plays out further as I am not convinced this boat/engine/prop combo is getting that high a number at WOT. It has been determined the boat has been in neglect for more than a year and fresh fuel could play a role in fixing the hard starts where the new ignition parts only helped. I'm hearing a "lack of power" issue as in "cannot pull a tube". I'm also thinking the carb has about a half inch of residue in the float chambers. I hope the fix is something that simple.
 

QC

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Mar 22, 2005
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22,783
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

OK, hold on, we need to back up here:

1) 5500 RPM with a 19" pitch and a 2:1 ratio and 25% slip is 37 MPH . . .

2) The RPM is wrong

3) Where are we getting the speed number?

This is not gonna get fixed by suggesting a 17" prop until we verify the Speed #, the RPM and the gear ratio. The calc numbers I used are all conservative, so unless it has a 3:1 ratio (it doesn't) or is slipping 50% (it isn't unless the prop hub is slipping) one or more of these numbers is absolutely 100% wrong . . . ;)
 

slshoe

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Aug 25, 2007
Messages
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

I didnt get a chance to work on the boat today and probably wont be able to for a couple more days, and yes the 5500rpm's could be totally wrong. I know the engine doesnt sound like its running high, thats just what the tach says and I dont know the history on that. I did notice though that one plug wire going into the dist. cap is completely corroded and partialli broke and laying in the dist. cap. It isnt lack of power, I seem to be able to pull 2 people on tubes and not lose any speed but the top end just sucks.
 

slshoe

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Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

Does anybody know a ballpark of what I could expect top end to be on a big heavy boat like this with a 140hp I/O? I was thinking 30-35 is realistic.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 22, 2005
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

That may be realistic, but whre are you getting your current speed number? Why do you say it isn't planing?
 

slshoe

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Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

The speedo is broke on the boat but I have a fishing boat with a 15hp 4stroke that goes 25 and my son steadily passed me in it so I figures 15-20 mph. Its not scientific just a general about guestimate.:rolleyes:
 

slshoe

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Aug 25, 2007
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

I say it doesnt plane because the nose is the lowest with motor all the way down, and even then the nose stick pretty high in the air, when I try to trim it the nose just keeps going higher.
 

QC

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Mar 22, 2005
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Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

What you say above is the way it should behave if I am reading it correctly. To be hyper-correct, planing is when the boat exceeds the speed of it's bow wave and is indicated when there is no water on the transom. The water can't keep up, so when you look at the transom all water is "wooshing" away behind instead of coming back and hitting it . . .

How do you know your little boat goes 25? I trust that the speed is correct, but I am curious.

To verify RPM you probably need to find someone with a portable shop tach. This can be one that works with the plug wires or what's called a Phototach which are getting really cheap. A Phototach reads a piece of reflective tape that you can put on basically anything to see what the RPM of that particular thing is. In this case you'd put it on the front crank pulley.

Another thing you should try is to look at the back of your tach and see if it has a switch for 4, 6 and 8 cyl. They "count" differently depending on the number of Cyls. I can't keep this straight in my head, but one way or the other makes them read faster or slower than actual i.e 8 cyl vs. 4 etc. This may not be a solution in your case, but it is worth a try.

Finally, all props "slip". Do some research on this, but we are not saying that the hub is slipping, but you need to imagine a prop going through a big hunk of clay. If you could turn it through the clay, a 19" prop would go 19 inches forward in one revolution . . . Well water is not as thick as clay, so when it goes once around it doesn't push this big old hull a full 19" through the water. It probably goes around 15" or 16" which is 22% and 16% "slip". 22% is a lot, some great setups get below 10% slip. Your numbers when plugged into a prop calculator indicate huge slip numbers in the order of 50%.

Now they can also "slip" mechanically (bad), the hub of your propeller is mounted to your propeller shaft, the propeller itself is mounted to the hub with a rubber or similar link. This link could be spinning so that the prop shaft may go one revolution and your propeller only .75 . . . That's 25% slip mechanically, not "hydraulically" (water), so if you add 25% mechanical slip (could be in the gearcase too) and 25% slip hydraulically (clay vs. water example) you could be nearing the numbers indicated by 20 MPH and 5500 RPM. BTW, I don't think this is the case.

Next, you have gear ratio. Most 140s whether they are Mercs or Volvos or OMCs are around 2:1 ratio. This means that the engine has to turn completely around twice to get the propshaft to turn once (2 to 1). It is possible that there is a different ratio in your drive unit. I don't believe so for two reasons:

1) Normally that would go the other way indicating that the boat should be even faster (1.5:1) and,
2) I don't believe that a 140 would swing a 19" prop if it was a lower numeric ratio (faster) than the 2:1 . . .

Oh, to verify gear ratio you need to turn the engine over by hand (remove spark plugs) with the drive in gear until the prop turns precisely one revolution. The number of revolutions of the engine is you gear ratio. Twice around = 2:1 ratio. Not quite twice say 1.8:1 etc.

These issues as you have found are perplexing. Your numbers say you are going over 40, the real world knows your not, so the numbers are wrong. What I find odd, is that it does sound like it is planing and all of the other stuff, poorly running engine, poor maintenance to date, 19 inch propeller would indicate that it shouldn't be that easy.

Just for fun and it is possible that this is confusing us, does it have a hydrofoil on the drive? Whaletail looking thing? This could account for the low top speed and relatively simple to plane . . .
 

slshoe

Cadet
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
14
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

yeah, from the posts ive been getting and the numbers im reading off the boats actions, I think theres more wrong with the boat than originally anticipated. I am pretty sure its only firing on 3 cyl. so Mon. is the next day I can work on the boat. My tick list is plug wires, dist. cap, If I can get to the shop today I will pick up a fuel filter, remove hydrofoil, it also has planing tabs on it can those reduce top end speed also? I also have a sneaking suspicion this boat is holding water somewhere, when on the lake or trailer the ski hole fills up with water and doesnt drain, I really need to tip up like on the boat landing to get water out, but im thinking theres more under the false floor. Then its time to take it to a shop and check all the numbers if things dont improve. I beleive the tach dont work quite as well as the previous owner claimed it did.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

You're on the right track now. Weight, Hydrofoil and yes trim tabs could slow it down if adjusted improperly, but leave them. They are a good thing and we can worry about their adjustment when you get this other stuff worked out. Good luck!!

P.S. What's up with your bilge pump?
 

slshoe

Cadet
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
14
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

bigle pump, I thought was a big black mass of leaves till I cleaned it. I need yto put a new one in. Where it sits under the motor though, has no water I think the water is under that area but im not sure, I know hwen I tipped it as high as I could on the trailer I got an extra 30-40 gal. of water out so I think if I get it on a really extreme slope, I may find more. Its just a hunch though. We'll see.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 22, 2005
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22,783
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

Dude, you have to dry that thing out . . . Numero uno. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much water.
 

crazyinkc

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
155
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

I wonder if the floatation foam is saturated? That could account for alot of the planning problem and low top speed. Just my 1.5 cents.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: mercruiser I/O top end problem

Yes, the water helps explain most of the missing pieces. Also, I am wondering if that prop is cavitating and/or ventilating because it simply can't move this barge . . . RPM could be right ;) 50% slip could be right. Still odd, but maybe.
 
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