Mikes Political Troll...sorry :)

[Plainsman]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Once again, turning from the topic tree. Why not start your own thread instead of trying to make this a bad Republican, bad President Bush bashing? But of course that is the norm around here, isn't it? Deflecting from the topic to get your jabs in. Give it a rest.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

... they extended the roll call for three hours....

So that's the same as erasing the vote from the congressional record?

I'll tell ya, these socialists not only hate what America stands for, they hate how it works! They'll do anything to get their treasonous leaders elected.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

This is exactly what communists and dictators are looking for. A complete misunderstanding of how the government works.

Perfect example: Tree pointing to the "Nuclear Option". He is either completely confused as to how the system works, doesn't understand what the nuclear option was, or he is continueing with the standard liberal fogging of the issue. Either way, it is ignoring the law for political gain. This will be the downfall of this country. Meanwhile liberals are running around trying to create moral equivalenies or draw parrallel's to something so highly illegal, I don't think there is an example of it in our history. What is so pathetic is the issue itself is historically insignificant, and easily bypassed legally, only the truely arrogant would have even tried this tactic on such a meaningless bill.

Be very afraid.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Quote Pointer94


Tree pointing to the "Nuclear Option". He is either completely confused as to how the system works, doesn't understand what the nuclear option was, or he is continueing with the standard liberal fogging of the issue. Either way, it is ignoring the law for political gain. This will be the downfall of this country.


My understanding of the “Nuclear Option” as the republicans intended to use it was a parliamentary maneuver in which republicans could seek a ruling from the presiding officer AKA Vice President Cheney that filibusters against judicial nominees are unconstitutional. Under that procedure it would on take a simple majority to uphold a ruling/presto filibuster over. Looked like a perfect example of fascism to me. Lets here your explanation of it.

Quote Plainsman


Once again, turning from the topic tree. Why not start your own thread instead of trying to make this a bad Republican, bad President Bush bashing? But of course that is the norm around here, isn't it? Deflecting from the topic to get your jabs in. Give it a rest.


Sorry Eric if you think I change the topic, as Pointer pointed out in a previous post” It has to do with unchecked abuse of limited powers” The only thing I was pointing out was that there was precedent sit when the republicans held the reins of power.

Besides Erik, look at the heading (Mikes Political Troll...sorry Looks like I’m spot on.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

I just read Tree's link. So all of this absurdity is about gutless wafflers that couldn't waffle fast enough because they were tripping over all the other gutless wafflers? Sheesh! Politics!

So now they're going to pick three players from both teams to pretend they're refs to look at the instant replay. Let me guess...the calls will run down party lines. No wonder Washington is such a freakin mess!

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

The Senate's rules have allowed unlimited debate, or filibusters, since 1806, when senators dropped a rule that allowed a majority of the Senate to put an end to discussion and call for a vote. For the next 111 years, there was no way to stop a filibuster once it had started. But in 1917 , when filibusters were blocking Woodrow Wilson's plans for World War I, the Senate adopted Rule XXII, which allowed senators to end a filibuster by a two-thirds vote on a motion to cut off debate -- a procedure called "cloture." In 1975 , the Senate amended Rule XXII so that cloture required, in most cases, the vote of not two-thirds but rather three-fifths of the senators. In today's 50-state, 100-member Senate, that means it takes 60 rather than 67 senators to put an end to most filibusters.

With the nuclear option, Frist and his supporters would effectively change that rule so that filibusters on judicial nominees could be cut off by a simple majority vote.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/05/12/nuclear_option_primer/index.html


This is the most concise and accurate account of what the "nuclear" option is, that I could find. It is a "procedure", constitutionally legal, not groundbreaking, and consistant with existing rules in place for the operation and running of the senate. It represents what some may call an extreme over-reaction, but not an illegal or unique approach.

Ignoring a vote because the outcome failed to meet the pre-ordained outcome of the majority is a travesty. Why hold votes at all under this new liberal monarchy? Toss in removal of the entire affair from the congressional record and you have to question not only the motives, but the future of all votes held by ones so arrogant.

I can't imagine what your reaction would have been if the Republicans used this illegal tactic to remove a big liberal tax, like say the cigarette tax. This is legislation without representation. And the point is, your outrage would be correct.

Again, one is a procedural manuever, the other is illegal and shows the malitious intent when the record was removed. There are perks to being the party in the majority, disregarding and covering up votes isn't one of them.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Why waste your breath anymore... these clowns will defend it as long as they get what they want.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

What do I want? Clean Bills with Clean Votes. No more of this kitchen sink garbage, and no more basing one's vote on the number of votes for the sake of petty posturing. Is that asking too much?

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Please don't take this personally Willy, but I could give a rats arse what you want. It's not about you. Government MUST operate within the rules. Perhaps you can justify the means by the outcome, but we as a country cannot. I would look to bury anyone or party that would employ these type of illegal tactics. It is offensive to everyone regardless of affiliation.

The fact you don't see that is unbelievable.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Quote Pointer94


Again, one is a procedural manuever, the other is illegal and shows the malitious intent when the record was removed. There are perks to being the party in the majority, disregarding and covering up votes isn't one of them.


Your right Pointer on the perks of the party holding the reins, Senate Rull XX11,(TheNuculer Option) has been in place since 1917,neither party has used it ,and for that matter even attempted to use it that I can find since it has been on the books.



I find that to be rather telling in itself, a party that had control of both houses, threatening to use a never used law, because of a threat of a filibuster on ten, of his judicial nominees, in spite of the fact that 205, of his nominees went sailing thru.


If the Republicans think they have a legal leg to stand on I?m sure it will go before one of the judges that he has nominated, but we both know that it was a mistake, even several republicans are saying it was a mistake.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Tree,

This has nothing (NOTHING!!!) to do with the previous congressional bodies.

Quote:

I find that to be rather telling in itself, a party that had control of both houses, threatening to use a never used law, because of a threat of a filibuster on ten, of his judicial nominees, in spite of the fact that 205, of his nominees went sailing thru.


Did you not even read the post much less check the link? It HAS been used on several occasions previously. And again, one topic has NOTHING to do with the other.

I give up!!!!

 

[treedancer]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Quote Pointer


This has nothing (NOTHING!!!) to do with the previous congressional bodies.

Pointer ,

Yes it does, especially when I was showing a pattern of fascism, just as on the following of your post you are trying to show a pattern. And no I didn?t double clutch on your one and two post.





1.<Consistant with liberal thinking they changed the vote after the fact and then eliminated it from the >record.

2.<Consistant with liberal thinking they changed the vote after the fact and then eliminated it from the >record.

3.<Liberal thinking.>

4.<This is exactly what communists and dictators are looking for. A complete misunderstanding of how the government works.>

Quote Pointer

It HAS been used on several occasions previously. And again, one topic has NOTHING to do with the other.

Your right Pointer, it has been used on several occasions; I stand corrected after I did some basic research. And again one topic has EVERYTHING to do with the other when showing a pattern.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

You know what s so sad? The original bill that started this whole brewha,I was for. Now that the Republicans have tried to make political hay out of it, I find myself on I-boats defending, what was mostly a parliamentary mistake. Now when Pedro swims over, instead of a tortilla and a Greyhound ticket back to Chihuahua, he gets a rib eye and a night a Motel six before he goes back.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

You're wasting your time Tree. There are three or four Neocons here that just don't have the ability to see that their side is Human too. They think their side is ordained by God and no amount or degree if illegal activity or heavyhandedness is unacceptable. If Dubya flips off the Pope and gropes a nun, they'll cheer and say "Do it again". They're deciples of hatemongers like Limbaugh and O'Reilly that are of the opinion that their side is right no matter what and the rest of the planet is wrong no matter what. There are others that think in similar fashion. Of particular note are the KKK and Al Qaeda. Yet the'll never understand how anybody could dare to make that observation. They are always right and everyone else is a (fill in any of the names already used adnauseum in any of their posts above).

I'm still waiting for any justification from a single one of them of why we are subject to clauses about Welfare and Medicare snuck into an AGRICULTURE APPROPRIATIONS BILL in the first place.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Great, show me one example of where the congress threw out a vote because the majority party didn't like it and then erased any evidence of it from the congressional record. Holding a vote open for three hours may be strange but it is legal, and since the liberals are in charge you won't hear me complaining when they do it. Why, because it is legal. Erasing votes - not legal....... But you obviously know or found examples of this that I don't know about. I wait with bated breath.....

Should be simple since you said there is a pattern of this.

I love what liberals call human error.... Eh, you don't get what you want, throw out the rules and disregard the law. Human error... Cool..... What about President Bush releasing all the information he had prior to decaring war to all members of congress, completely transparent, and these phonies vote to decare war, then pound the drum, "Bush lied, people died". Human error???? Enjoy the kool-aid.

I just love how you all managed to work in Bush, Rush, O'Reiley, we even got a reference to the KKK into your excuses.. What was this about????? This fixation should be diagnosed. If the Republicans had pulled a stunt like this, I would be all over them as well, maybe even more so, as they represent the closest (but hardly completely) to my beliefs. This dishonors and disgraces our political process.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

As usual, the traitors can't stay on focus. Cheney's kickin puppies!

Willy... get over yourself... stuff gets thrown into unrelated bills ALL the time. It's been that way for 200 years.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

RF, I guess our friends missed the pork added to the emergency funding bill for our troops. I missed their outrage..... I would again challenge them to find one bill that doesn't have these bribes embedded in them in the past 50 years..... Again, they won't be able to find any.... They won't even look, because they, of course, know this....

Liberalism means never having to say you are wrong or sorry. Just another example.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

As the gavel began to fall, the vote was deadlocked at 214-214. By the time the gavel hit, some claim the vote was different. So is the game over when the hammer hits, or when forward motion is initiated? I'll wait for the instant replay.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

Not a single word uttered about the procedural error ( to be nice). Everything that has been written essentially says, "hey you did it too!" Which in fact is not true.

The more you try to pin them down the more active they get with the "republicans are just as bad, but this is how I think it should be" and then insulting the intelligence of the conservative opinion holders.

I don't the ways justify the means for any party. If we lose our rigor for the rules we will lose our system of gov't.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Mikes Political Troll...sorry

So where is it carved in granite that a rules violation occurred? Fox? Drudge? That isn't granite, that's quicksand. Just because the team with the losing record cries foul in the final seconds doesn't make it so.