Min. wage - Max. trouble

ricksrster

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Minimum Wage, Maximum Trouble

Thursday , July 26, 2007
By James Sherk



Supporters of the latest minimum-wage hike have the best of intentions. They want the higher minimum wage to lift low-income families out of poverty — but that doesn’t change where the road paved with good intentions leads. The increase will actually harm the very workers it’s intended to help.
Raising the minimum wage seems an obvious way to help low-income workers. Their wages go up and they earn more money. How could raising the minimum wage possibly hurt them?
Because the workers who will earn the new minimum wage after it rises are not the same workers who earned the old minimum wage before it went up. Since it costs more to hire workers, employers will hire fewer of them. And they will change who they hire for the positions they keep.
If the government forces companies to pay higher wages, more skilled and productive workers will apply for their positions. Given the choice between hiring an unskilled worker and one with more experience, companies virtually always hire the more productive employee. Employers will replace many of the unskilled workers who work for the minimum wage today with more skilled workers who would have earned more than $5.15 an hour regardless.
Many economic studies demonstrate that employers respond in exactly this manner. Outside the dry world of academic journals, this means that welfare recipients trying to get off the dole, new immigrants who speak little English, and inner-city minority teenagers from disadvantaged backgrounds have a much harder time finding jobs. These workers tend to lack jobs skills that make them attractive employees.
Given a choice between hiring a middle-class college student or a minority teenager who goes to an inner-city public school, employers will hire the college student if both will work for the same wage. Raising the minimum wage by 50 percent also raises the probability that teenage African-American high-school dropouts will lose their jobs by over 25 percent.
As a result, research consistently shows that higher minimum wages do not reduce poverty. Most of the benefits go to suburban teenagers or college students, not those who actually need help. While some low-income workers get a raise, many others lose their jobs.
Putting unskilled employees out of work hardly helps them. Worse, though, is the way the lack of job opportunities makes it harder for these employees to gain the skills necessary to get ahead in the market place.
Minimum-wage jobs are entry-level positions. Few workers who start out at minimum wage stay there. Over time, they demonstrate their reliability and gain valuable skills such as how to interact productively with customers, or accept direction from the boss. This makes them more valuable and earns them raises. Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers earn a raise within a year.
When the minimum wage rises, it saws off the bottom rung of the career ladder for many unskilled workers. They become less attractive to hire at the higher wages, so they miss the opportunity to gain valuable work skills and earn raises. A policy designed to help them leaves them in poverty. Past increases in the minimum wage have hurt the earnings and job prospects of unskilled workers over a decade after they passed for precisely this reason. Many unskilled workers were denied the ability to get on-the-job-training with a minimum-wage job and were left playing catch-up when they finally did find an entry-level job.
They may mean well. But supporters of the new minimum-wage hike have hurt the low-income workers they wanted to help.
James Sherk is a policy analyst in the Center for Data Analysis at The Heritage Foundation.
 

WillyBWright

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

Same old GOP BS lame excuses, false logic, and phoney-baloney concern for those "poor minimum wage bas****s" You guys must be experts at recycling, because everything here is reused time after time after..... :rolleyes:

Some of the people always buy into the same old same old same old same.....
 

tommays

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

The biggest thing i see is the high min wage here at 7.15 and hour just brings in more illegals

It may well help legit poor people BUT the inports are even pushing them out of there living areas to god knows were



Tommays
 

waterinthefuel

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

It's the same as when I brought it up several months ago in another thread, all it's going to do is make the prices of goods go up.

WBW, how can it not? A business is based off of income and expenses, can we at least agree on that? If anything costs more for a business, be it gas, equipment, wages, any expense it incurs will be passed along to the consumer, right? Well, this is an increase in wages. We will feel this just like we are now feeling the results of the dayum democrats pushing for ethanol. It drives up the price of corn, it makes it more expensive to feed cows, so our milk price increased 50 percent overnight.

Ahh, just gotta love 'dem dumb o crats.
 

sun_runner235

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

It's the same as when I brought it up several months ago in another thread, all it's going to do is make the prices of goods go up.

WBW, how can it not? A business is based off of income and expenses, can we at least agree on that? If anything costs more for a business, be it gas, equipment, wages, any expense it incurs will be passed along to the consumer, right? Well, this is an increase in wages. We will feel this just like we are now feeling the results of the dayum democrats pushing for ethanol. It drives up the price of corn, it makes it more expensive to feed cows, so our milk price increased 50 percent overnight.

Ahh, just gotta love 'dem dumb o crats.


Exactly.....Raising minimum wage increases inflation. Simple economics. While raising minimum wages provide minimal relief in the short run, the long term effects lead to higher prices of goods. Why do you think there is such a trade imbalance with countries like China? Its not that they get raw materials cheaper than us, (actually their raw material costs are much higher than ours) its because their wages are much lower. As these developing countries advance, their wages will also go up and increase the cost of their goods in the same manner This will ultimately balance import/export trade.

The only way to keep inflation in check is spend within your means.....that applies to the individual, as well as the government.
 
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gonefishie

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

IMO, it will help in the long run and turn America into a more educated country. It would encourages, or forces kids to stay and finish high school, get a post high school education and finish it. More educated peole = less ignorant mofos. Heck, we might be able to get rid of all the signs in foreign languages and the annoying press 1 for espanol. Last I check, the math, science, etc.. professors don't lecture in anything but ENGLISH in college. I will be willing to suffers for now if the end result is a more educated America. Now the prices of everything went up because of Ethanol, that's not right!
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble


The only way to keep inflation in check is spend within your means.....that applies to the individual, as well as the government.

That has not happened since.......
Hell, I don't know.......
After much cornsideration, I think the minimum wage should be abolished.......
It will help keep all of the unskilled, illegal immigrants out because it won't be worth coming here.....
Cut the 'anchor baby' clause & deny any public assistance except for a jail cell.....:mad:
 

aspeck

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

Let me give a little story locally ... since PA is already at the higher minimum wages ...

A large chain retailer, who up to this point had an excellent relationship with its employees locally, gave all their employees a raise - because the minimum employees went up, everyone had to go up to keep the percentages right.

Many customers hailed the minimum wage hike decision, but complained and said the store better not raise prices. So, the store laid off many workers and made it almost unbearable for the older workers to keep up with the demand from the company (now they needed to weed out the older, trained workers to get more workers at the lower pay so they could keep up their profit margin as dictated by HQ and the stockholders).

Now the store is working with many fewer employees, customers are complaining for the first time about the pour service in the store, and in the end, everyone has lost!

By the way, there was less than 4% of the employee work force that was working below the NOW minimum wage, but because their wage went up, EVERYONES had to go up!
 

sun_runner235

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

IMO, it will help in the long run and turn America into a more educated country. It would encourages, or forces kids to stay and finish high school, get a post high school education and finish it. More educated peole = less ignorant mofos. Heck, we might be able to get rid of all the signs in foreign languages and the annoying press 1 for espanol. Last I check, the math, science, etc.. professors don't lecture in anything but ENGLISH in college. I will be willing to suffers for now if the end result is a more educated America. Now the prices of everything went up because of Ethanol, that's not right!

The only way people who normally would benefit from minimum wage increases are able to become more educated (ie. go to college) is on the backs of those that the minimum wage increase hurts. Meaning, those of us who have gone to college, have the degrees, make decent money yet still have a hard time supporting a family. OUR taxes go to fund the grants the foremention people recieve. Yet when someone in a hardworking upper middle class family cares to go to college, they are denied the same type of assistance. Solely because their parents are educated, and make decent money. Then the family is forced to pay out of their own pocket to educate their own child and futher put a strain on their hardworking household. Fair? I think not.
 

dave68iou1

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

The only way to keep inflation in check is spend within your means.....that applies to the individual, as well as the government.

That has not happened since....... CLINTONHell, I don't know.......
After much cornsideration, I think the minimum wage should be abolished.......Doesn't settle much, just spend more on the same products
It will help keep all of the unskilled, illegal immigrants out because it won't be worth coming here.....Not a chance
Cut the 'anchor baby' clause & deny any public assistance except for a jail cell.....Free needle maybe??:mad:

Some things should change (Such as the number of educated folks that still choose not to vote) and more of a voice from those that matter. We are in a nation that caters to the voices, albeit those voices are minorities at this point. If we want the majority to be pleased, it starts with a majority vote...
 

waterinthefuel

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

Oh my gosh, saying that giving the minimum wage workers a buck more an hour is going to make them more educated is ludicrous. How can you come to that conclusion?

First, who makes minimum wage in this country? Primarily high school kids. Do you want to pay more for everything so some pimple faced kid can have a few more bucks in his pocket to blow on video games?

Second, if you are that poor, you can already get gov't grants to go to community colleges.

Third, by paying more to the lowest class, you are discouraging, not encouraging, them from going to school, as they can make 7.25 an hour to flip a burger, heck, that's over 14 g's a year. Why bother with school when big gov't will make sure you make a living wage doing a menial job?

Fourth, the more you pay the minimum wage workers the more it will discourage people from trying to do better and get a better paying job.

This is just another terrible decision by the dumbocrats.
 

gonefishie

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

waterinthefuel said:
How can you come to that conclusion?


Minimum Wage, Maximum Trouble

Thursday , July 26, 2007
By James Sherk



The increase will actually harm the very workers it’s intended to help.
How could raising the minimum wage possibly hurt them?
Because the workers who will earn the new minimum wage after it rises are not the same workers who earned the old minimum wage before it went up. Since it costs more to hire workers, employers will hire fewer of them. And they will change who they hire for the positions they keep.
If the government forces companies to pay higher wages, more skilled and productive workers will apply for their positions. Given the choice between hiring an unskilled worker and one with more experience, companies virtually always hire the more productive employee. Employers will replace many of the unskilled workers who work for the minimum wage today with more skilled workers who would have earned more than $5.15 an hour regardless.
Many economic studies demonstrate that employers respond in exactly this manner. Outside the dry world of academic journals, this means that welfare recipients trying to get off the dole, new immigrants who speak little English, and inner-city minority teenagers from disadvantaged backgrounds have a much harder time finding jobs. These workers tend to lack jobs skills that make them attractive employees.
Given a choice between hiring a middle-class college student or a minority teenager who goes to an inner-city public school, employers will hire the college student if both will work for the same wage. Raising the minimum wage by 50 percent also raises the probability that teenage African-American high-school dropouts will lose their jobs by over 25 percent.

I came to the conclusion of maybe people would be more educated as somewhat of an argument against this statement above. I'm not saying it won't hurt, but what I'm saying is that it might help in the future. Employers have to pay more therefore, they're going to hire more educated/skilled workers to get the most bang for their bucks.
 

rolmops

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

It's the same as when I brought it up several months ago in another thread, all it's going to do is make the prices of goods go up.

WBW, how can it not? A business is based off of income and expenses, can we at least agree on that? If anything costs more for a business, be it gas, equipment, wages, any expense it incurs will be passed along to the consumer, right? Well, this is an increase in wages. We will feel this just like we are now feeling the results of the dayum democrats pushing for ethanol. It drives up the price of corn, it makes it more expensive to feed cows, so our milk price increased 50 percent overnight.

Ahh, just gotta love 'dem dumb o crats.

Oh you good people.
Did you know that only about one percent of the population gets paid minimum wages?If a business owner can only afford to pay minimum wages,he should not be in business,because only monkeys work for peanuts and any business owner who pays peanuts will get only monkeys to work for him.
As for corn prices ,ethanol and democrats.there is no connection.The main pushers for corn based ethanol are the midwest farmers,who are making a killing on corn these days.These farmers are mostly republicans who get nice farm subsidies that were voted for by republicans in congress.Nothing wrong with that.
But please when you do not know what you are talking about,do not accuse anybody of being a dumb republican or democrat. It mostly reveals your own level of intelligence
 

RubberFrog

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

Nice side step. A few pretend stats and -voila- you've got yourself a made up reality!
speechless-smiley-004.gif
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

Oh you good people.
Did you know that only about one percent of the population gets paid minimum wages?

So what, why should government who only lives off our productive efforts tell us how much we should pay for Labor?

If a business owner can only afford to pay minimum wages,he should not be in business,because only monkeys work for peanuts and any business owner who pays peanuts will get only monkeys to work for him.

Hmmmmmm, why don't we have BIG NANNY GOVERNMENT just set minimum wage at $100 per hour then: Einstein? Share yer logic as to why that decision should be the blood sucking NON PRODUCTIVE leetches to make, HMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????

As for corn prices ,ethanol and democrats.there is no connection.The main pushers for corn based ethanol are the midwest farmers,who are making a killing on corn these days.These farmers are mostly republicans who get nice farm subsidies that were voted for by republicans in congress.

BS, its is equal opportunity feedin' at the trough and should not happen: Period. Left or Right does not matter.

Nothing wrong with that.

Yah, everything is wrong with it.

But please when you do not know what you are talking about,do not accuse anybody of being a dumb republican or democrat. It mostly reveals your own level of intelligence

Now this part of yer post maybe true, (it is risky to call others ya don't really know: dumb), but you all know I only have a single brain cell, n' I have never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. I would cornceed ya may be sharper n' have more varied 'sperience then ol' Murky, n' I would luv to learn more about yer Religion n' travels, as you have a very interesting life of experiences that I find facinating. That said: some of the things that come off yer keyboard make me want some of yer smoke so I can at least try to see the same illogical things you tend to see. :D:D JR
 

mscher

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

Is it possible that Democrats really don't care about low wage workers and the the minumum wage hike is really just a stunt, designed simply to lure more voters to the donkey side in '08?

The elections are all that they seem to really care about.

Sure, they spank "W" on Iraq every chance they get, but hey, the voters eat that right up too.

Maybe in '09, they'll start running the country.
 

rolmops

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

Murky,there is a book on the market called:"Good Capitalism,Bad Capitalism".
It is an interesting read.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

I've stated this before, Big oil is the reason for our econ taking such a dump, 7 months later and the end to subprime houing and subrpime specualtion has our econ on the brink of failure........ The sky's falling......:D just watch market trend's for the next 60 day's. Minimun wage bs almost laughable............:D

A few day's ago Bush stated the econ is strong, he made the same mistake his father did when he couldn't state the price of a gallon of milk...
 

waterinthefuel

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Re: Min. wage - Max. trouble

Is it possible that Democrats really don't care about low wage workers and the the minumum wage hike is really just a stunt, designed simply to lure more voters to the donkey side in '08?

The elections are all that they seem to really care about.

Sure, they spank "W" on Iraq every chance they get, but hey, the voters eat that right up too.

Maybe in '09, they'll start running the country.

You hit the nail on the head. Nothing the dumbocrats do is for the good of the country, its for votes, period. Why waste taxpayer money to resubmit a bill that they knew the president would veto over and over again? To try to get votes while saying "hey look, we're trying!! see???"

Why have someone who gets 400 dollar haircuts try to tout his crap about the poor? To get votes!

You named another couple of reasons they do it as well.

All in all, the old quote is true, "If you are young and not a democrat you have no heart. If you are old and not a republican, you have no brains."

Speaking of brains, to the individual who made the statement about intelligence, I've taken an IQ test and scored over 120, in the top 95 percentile of people who ever took that test. Please don't try to make statements about my intelligence as I never made a statement about yours.
 
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