Moderator Needed.......

Bondo

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Staff member
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Messages
71,088
Would it be Possible that Don's post on "HOW TO", winterize your driveline be Pinned to the Top of the Forum,..??..??..??........
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Moderator Needed.......

Bill. I PM'd 2 different mods last week concerning this and nothing has happened.

Face it... we are step children here and on our own. The board heavily leans towards outboards. If it's not important for outboard owners, I guess it's just not important.

I may be wrong, but I believe that all the mods are outboard people. At least most of them are. I believe their personal preference clouds their judgement in these matters.
 

ziggy

Admiral
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
7,473
Re: Moderator Needed.......

The board heavily leans towards outboards

gee, i didn't even know this board was that way as i dont' have an outboard. so i rarely go to that side of this fourm. man the info over there must be really great as i think this i/o fourm has much info to offer....

i agree. sticky post dons's thread to the top. it seems it has much relavance for us i/o folk....
 

bjcsc

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
1,805
Re: Moderator Needed.......

Agreed. Even better, add it to the FAQ...
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Moderator Needed.......

KaGee said:
I believe their personal preference clouds their judgement in these matters.

You sound like CJY or PW whining about the political leanings of DC mods . . .
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: Moderator Needed.......

There are two links in the FAQS that cover quite well how to winterize anything....why add a third saying the same thing? Heres whats in the FAQS...

Winterizing Your Boat

Unfortunately, the boating season is winding down in many parts of the country and it is time to start thinking about protecting your valuable recreational asset. Winterizing a boat reminds me of the old commercial that says "pay me now or pay me later." The time and effort you spend now will have a definite effect on your boat's performance, or lack of it, and certainly save you time, effort and money come spring. You should remember that your insurance policy may not cover damage done by lack of maintenance or neglect.

The best place for your boat to be during the winter is out of the water, under cover, in a climate-controlled boat storage area. This, however, can be expensive. If don't have this option perhaps you should consider shrink-wrapping your boat. This, too, is a little expensive but provides a very protective cover. Short of these two items, make sure that your boat is well covered with a tarp or some other sturdy cover.

Your first step in winterizing should be to make a checklist of all items that need to be accomplished. Check the owner's manual of your boat and motor(s) for manufacturer's recommendations on winterization. If you are a new boat owner, perhaps you should employ the assistance of a friend with experience in winterizing or hire a professional to do the job. The following is a generic outline of areas which should be of concern to you, however, there are many resources on the Internet with more detailed and specific information.

Inboard Engine(s) - You should run the engine(s) to warm it up and change the oil while it is warm. This tends to allow impurities to be drained away with the oil. You should also change the oil filter(s). Flush the engine(s) with fresh water. You should circulate antifreeze through the manifold by using a pickup hose from the waterpump to a bucket of antifreeze. Start the engine and allow the antifreeze to circulate until water starts to exit the exhaust. This process will vary slightly depending on whether you have a "Raw Water" cooling system or an "Enclosed Fresh Water" cooling system. While you're in the engine room you should also change the fluid in your transmission. Remove spark plugs and use "fogging oil" to spray into each cylinder. Wipe down the engine with a shop towel sprayed with a little fogging oil or WD-40.

Fuel - Fill your fuel tank(s) to avoid a build up of condensation over the winter months. Add a fuel stabilizer (such as one found here) by following the instructions on the product. Change the fuel filter(s) and water separator(s).

Stern Drive(s) - You should thoroughly inspect the stern drive and remove any plant life or barnacles from the lower unit. Drain the gear case and check for excessive moisture in the oil. This could indicate leaking seals and should be repaired. Clean the lower unit with soap and water. If your stern drive has a rubber boot, check it for cracks or pinholes. Grease all fittings and check fluid levels in hydraulic steering or lift pumps. Check with your owner's manual for additional recommendations by the manufacturer.

Outboard Engine(s) - Flush engine with fresh water using flush muffs or similar device attached to the raw water pickup. Let all water drain from the engine. Wash engine down with soap and water and rinse thoroughly. Thanks to Jerry Turley a member of the USCG Auxiliary for pointing out that there are two theories on whether you should disconnect the fuel hose and run the engine until it stops or treat the fuel. Nissan recommends draining fuel for lay-up and it and has a step by step process to follow. Their purpose is to make sure that all fuel is drained from the carburetor to prevent build-up of deposits from evaporated fuel. Other manufacturers such as Mercury, OMC, Force and all recommend treating the fuel with a fuel conditioner and stabilizer, have a full tank, and running treated fuel into the engine prior to the balance of the winterizing process. The presence of treated fuel prevents the interaction with air. Also, the small amount of fuel left after draining does not have a chance to evaporate and form the "varnish" type residue. Fuel conditioners are available at marine dealers, marine stores and auto parts stores.

You should consult your owners manual for the manufacturers recommendations on how to handle fuel in your winterization process.

Use fogging oil in the cylinders to lubricate the cylinder walls and pistons. Apply water resistant grease to propeller shaft and threads. Change the gear oil in the lower unit. Lightly lubricate the exterior of the engine or polish with a good wax.

Batteries - Disconnect the battery cables, remove the battery from the boat. Clean the terminal ends and battery with a solution of baking soda and water, rinse thoroughly with clean water. Apply a light coat of grease on the terminal end of the battery and cables. Store the battery in a cool dry place. Use a trickle charger to keep battery charged . Do not charge battery near any open flame or in a confined area.

Bilges - Make sure the bilges are clean and dry. Use soap, hot water and a stiff brush to clean up any oil spills. Once the bilges are clean, spray with a moisture displacing lubricant and add a little antifreeze to prevent any water from freezing.

Fresh Water System - Completely drain the fresh water tank and hot water heater. Isolate the hot water heater by disconnecting the in and out lines and connect them together. Pump a non-toxic antifreeze into the system and turn on all the facets including the shower and any wash-down areas until you see the antifreeze coming out. Also put non-toxic antifreeze in the water heater.

Head - Pump out the holding tank at an approved facility. While pumping, add fresh water to the bowl and flush several times. Use Vanish crystals or whatever your owner's manual recommends that will not harm your system and let sit for a few minutes. Again add fresh water and pump out again. Add antifreeze and pump through hoses, holding tank, y-valve, macerator and discharge hose. Again, check your owners manual to make sure that an alcohol-based antifreeze won't damage your system.

Interior - Once you have taken care of the system you should remove any valuables, electronics, lines, PFD, fire extinguishers, flares, fenders, etc. Over the winter these items can be cleaned, checked and replaced as necessary. Open all drawers and lockers and clean thoroughly. Turn cushions up on edge so that air is able to circulate around them or, better yet, bring them home to a climate controlled area. Open and clean the refrigerator and freezer. To keep your boat dry and mildew-free you might want to install a dehumidifier or use some of the commercially available odor and moisture absorber products such as "No Damp," "Damp Away" or "Sportsman's Mate."

Out of Water Storage - pressure wash hull, clean barnacles off props and shafts, rudders, struts and trim tabs. Clean all thru-hulls and strainers. Open seacocks to allow any water to drain. Check the hull for blisters and if you find any that should be attended to you might want to open them to drain over the winter. While you're at it, why not give the hull a good wax job? It is probably best to take the batteries out of the boat and take them home and either put them on a trickle charger or charge them every 30-60 days.

In Water Storage - Close all seacocks and check rudder shafts and stuffing boxes for leaks, tighten or repack as necessary. Check your battery to make sure it is fully charged, clean terminals, add water if necessary and make sure your charging system is working. Check bilge pumps to ensure they are working and that float switches properly activate the pumps and that they are not hindered by debris. Make sure either to check your boat periodically or have the marina check it and report to you. If in an area where the water you are docked or moored in actually freezes, you should have a de-icing device or bubbling system around your boat.

By following some of the above suggestions, and suggestions given from the links provided, you should be in good shape for the winter. Do not, however, neglect to consult your owner's manuals for manufacture's recommendations on winterizing your boat and other systems. If you have not done a winterization job before or don't have an experienced friend to rely on seek out a professional to do the job for you.
NOW OUT BOARDS
WINTERIZING YOUR OUTBOARD

I often hear people say they never stored their motor in the past, why should they spend time and money doing something if it doesn't need it? The reality is, improper off season storage of an outboard motor has cumulative effects. During the off season, engine components can and do rust — the extend of which depends on what fuel mixture was last running in the engine, and the heat and humidity the engine is stored in. When rust forms, it creates pitting in the metal — specifically, the hardened steel surfaces the needle bearings in modern engines utilize. When the engine is started each spring, the rust is washed away and the pitting remains until one year, the bearing calls it quits and a rod exists through the side of the block. Many people don't associate rod failure with poor engine storage because the failure often takes place in the middle of summer and no connection is made to poor storage practices. Naturally, when this happens, they'll blame the engine manufacturer instead of placing the blame squarely where it belongs.
Modern engines, especially oil injected ones, have so little oil in them when the key is turned off, that maintenance issues are no longer an ‘if', but a ‘when' scenario. It doesn't take much math to figure out that current oil injected outboards can run on as little as one cup of oil to five gallons of gasoline. Given that current oils are designed to lubricate and burn cleanly, (not coat and protect from rust), it's more important than ever to properly store your outboard motor and protect your investment. Bearing issues aside, the are other items that need to be addressed too so let's get started:


All Models
To prevent condensation in the fuel tank and prevent breakdown of the fuel during storage, let's fill those fuel tanks with gas and add the appropriate amount of fuel stabilizer (follow directions on the label for storage). So why stabilize the fuel? The current shelf life of today's fuels is pegged at about three months. After that, the additives begin to separate, the octane level drops, and the gas begins the process of ‘going bad' and varnishing fuel system components (including gumming up the carb). Since most of us are going to lay the boat up for about 6 months, this step is just as important as the others in ensuring trouble free boating next summer.

Bring the engine up to operating temperature and allow enough time for the stabilizer to reach the carbs (10-15 minutes at idle, or 3 minutes at wide open throttle). Since portable steel tanks were used for many years with outboard motors, visually inspect for water in the bottom of any steel tank(s) using a flashlight. If water is found (round globs on the bottom of the tank), dump the tank and flush thoroughly. If rust is evident, the tank should be disposed of and replaced with a new plastic style. In the water, or on a pair of earmuffs (to supply the engine with water), do the following:

For carbureted engines with a maintenance valve (newer OMC's):
Attach engine fogger to maintenance valve fitting (looks like a tire air valve -- check your owners manual for location). Start engine and bring RPM to about 1500. Push and hold the release button on the fogger and continue holding until a steady thick white smoke appears out the exhaust. Depending on the size of the engine, this should consume about a half a can of fogging oil. Turn the engine off immediately after you're finished fogging (to ensure as much fogger as possible remains in the engine) and remove the fogger from the maintenance valve.

For carbureted engines without a maintenance valve (common for most brands and years):
Depending on the engine make a model, there is either removable plastic plugs in the breather cover, small holes in the breather, or no breather at all. Since we have to spray the fogger directly into the carb throats, determine how you are going to gain access to them before you get started. If the engine is equipped with removable plugs, pop them all out now. If there are pre-drilled access holes, locate them and ensure you have as many holes as there are carb throats. If there are no plugs or pre-drilled holes, simply remove the breather cover to gain access. Install the straw adapter that came with the can of fogging oil and bring the engine up to 1500 RPM. While holding down on the release button of the fogger, spray fogging oil into each carb throat for a 3-5 seconds, then move onto the next throat. Keep going from carb to carb until a steady thick white smoke appears out the exhaust. Depending on the size of the engine, this should consume about half to 3/4 of a can of fogging oil. Turn the engine off immediately after you've finished fogging (to ensure the fogger remains in the engine).


All Models
Pull the boat out of the water (or remove the ear muffs) and keep the motor in a vertical position for at least ten minutes to ensure all water is drained from the block and passages (outboard motors are self draining and require no anti-freeze for storage). If possible, the engine should be stored in an upright position in the coldest condition possible (rust processes are slowed considerably at low temperatures, and no humidity to promote rust exists below freezing). The worst place to store your outboard is in your basement beside your furnace — high humidity and warmth will seize an engine in no time.
For those that may be storing for extended periods of time or in warm humid conditions, you might want to remove the spark plugs and squirt some additional 2 stroke engine oil or fogger into the cylinders, then roll the engine over by hand to thoroughly coat everything. Re-install the plugs to minimize condensation during the storage period.

Storing the carbs wet or dry?
Today's carburetors utilize many neoprene, rubber, and alcohol resistant materials. Draining the fuel system for storage can put these parts at risk by allowing the materials to dry out and crack. Most (if not all) manufacturers recommend the carbs be left ‘wet' — that is, they fuel is stabilized and left in the carb during the storage period. If the engine will be stored on its side, or will be traveling in a vehicle before lay-up, it may be best to drain the fuel system by disconnecting the fuel line while fogging the engine, then continue to fog until the engine runs out of fuel (choking just as it's dying will get the last bit of fuel out).


Gearcase Oil Change
At a minimum, we want to inspect the gear oil before storage because if water is present in the gearcase, it can freeze and crack the case when the temperature falls (not to mention your gears and bearings will rust too). As long as we're there anyway, why not change it now too so we have one less thing to do in the spring when we're busy trying to get back on the water as fast as we can?

Most brands have easy to find drain and vent screws. The drain/fill screw is usually located just beneath the ‘bullet' shape of the gearcase, while the vent/overflow screw is located just above the anti-ventilation plate (often incorrectly called the cavitation plate). Pull both screws and inspect the quality of the gear oil while it drains. WARNING: Do not pull the screw with the philips (star) headed screw. This part (the pivot pin) cannot easily be re-installed properly without disassembling the gearcase.

White or creamy oil indicates you have water contamination. If you find this condition, have a dealer perform a pressure and vacuum test on the gearcase. It should go without saying that if nothing but water comes out of the oil cavity, you're likely in need of something more than seals. Grey oil usually indicates a failure of some sort has occurred in the lower unit (chipped gears or bearing failure). In some cases, prolonged use of the same oil can lead to the same oil condition. If you find you're oil is grey with a very strong odour, see your dealer for service and advice. Black oil indicates all is OK, you're just a bit overdue on your change cycle. As a benchmark for future the future, gear oil should be changed every 50-100 hours of operation, or at least once annually — whichever comes first. Many gearcases utilize a magnet on the drain screw. It's is normal to see a collection of fine metals filings, but if you find metals chunks, it's best to have the unit looked at by a professional.

Which gear oil to use?
If you have an electric shift gearcase (common in the sixties), you need a special oil called OMC Premium Blend (used to be called ‘Type C'). Failure to use this oil will result in a failure of the electromagnetic shift system this system utilizes.

All other gearcases (including hydro-electric shifts) will operate on a hypoid 90 weight oil. OMC's Hi-Vis brand fits the bill nicely, and if you really want to extend gear life and protect if the unit is contaminated with water, I strongly recommend OMC's HPF synthetic gear oil. When in doubt, follow your engine manufacturers recommendations.

Re-filling the gearcase (do NOT leave it empty for the storage period):
To start with, let's install new gaskets or o-rings on our fill screws (cheap insurance to save grief down the road). Next, many manufacturers supply their oil in soft squeezable bottles, or optional hand pumps can be purchases for larger containers. Whatever method you choose, fill from the bottom hole until it comes out the top hole. Install the top screw, then remove filler from the bottom and quickly install the screw there as well. Torque the screws and wipe off the excess oil. Speaking of excess oil, please make sure you dispose of the old oil in an environmentally responsible manner.


Batteries.
I strongly recommend the batteries be removed entirely from the boat, but if you're one of those types who leaves them in, at least disconnect them (ALL CABLES). Turning the battery switch off is not good enough. Next, clean the terminals and tops of the batteries as any moisture or dirt will allow cross discharge between the posts. The batteries should be stored in a cool, dry place. Warm humid storage will promote cross discharge through the air. Charge the batteries at least every two months. Watch your water levels and top up as necessary.

FYI, I store over 250 batteries in an outdoor building (unheated). I ensure the batteries are fully charged prior to storage, and charge them only once in January. I have yet to lose a battery over the winter and have had some last up to 9 years before I gave it the boot. A good battery will give a least five full years of service. One more thing to try and kill an urban legend: Storing your battery on a concrete floor will not hurt your battery.


Hull:
Where I live, the water is clear and the algae growth minimal (God's country). We don't even bother cleaning the boats until spring, and even then, a good scrubbing and spray brings them back to nearly new.

I will recommend hydrochloric (muriatic) acid for those stubborn stains and water lines, but be careful -- that stuff is mighty toxic to the lungs and corrosive to skin. Apply it with a paint tray and roller, let stand for 10 minutes, then rinse off. Water will quickly neutralize the acid. Don't forget to store your boat bow high and remove all drain plugs. It would be a shame if you found a split hull in the spring (well, not for me and my fellow marina operators ).

If possible, store your tops in a warm place at home. While the new synthetics are quite durable, the older vinyls and viewtex (clear plastic) don't like the cold. Obviously, a good wash and rinse is recommended before storage. If the boat is going to be outside, it's not that tough (or expensive) to build a wooden frame (using the tent pole method with bailing twine to support). A suitable sized tarp is the best investment you can make and it can last for years if properly tied when on (to prevent flapping in the wind) and properly stored during the summer. Shrink wrapping is expensive, and not reusable.

That's about it. If you run your engine in salt water, you should have thoroughly flushed the cooling system prior to starting the winteriztion of the motor. The rest of us can put the motor to bed now and rest easy our pride and joy will continue to provide many years of enjoyment to come. Have I missed anything?

Now, about your bill...............

Happy boatin'

Dave Brown
Brown's Marina Ltd.
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Moderator Needed.......

QC said:
KaGee said:
I believe their personal preference clouds their judgement in these matters.

You sound like CJY or PW whining about the political leanings of DC mods . . .

QC, All but two FAQ's pertain to outboards, with those two having an association with them. Please tell me how I'm wrong?
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Moderator Needed.......

You're not wrong Kagee, I just thought it was ironic . . . Agree, this stuff needs to be pinned and we need an I/O focused Mod or some more attention from the existing squad. I don't think it's clouded judgement due to personal preference as much as it is a lack of attention due to personal preference. If that distinction makes any sense . . .

Sorry if I sounded like I was disagreeing with you or belittling your point. I shoulda added a smiley . . . 8)
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Moderator Needed.......

QC said:
. . . Agree, this stuff needs to be pinned and we need an I/O focused Mod or some more attention from the existing squad. I don't think it's clouded judgement due to personal preference as much as it is a lack of attention due to personal preference. If that distinction makes any sense . . .

Yes, that is what I mean. You spelled it out better. Symantics is everything.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Moderator Needed.......

^ ^ Bump ^ ^
 

shelikesit

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
171
Re: Moderator Needed.......

what's an outboard? the platform on the back of my boat? but its fiberglass, not wood..........
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Moderator Needed.......

guys, i'm and outboard man, but in total agreement w/ you. i've had the one i/o, and went back to o/b's. but i still scan your forum. and help where my bad experience shows up. pin don's post. even thought we don't wnterize down here. a lot of people for the south have never heard of winterizing, they move north and are in trouble.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Moderator Needed.......

Winterizing is well covered in the Engine FAQs, as pointed out above. Don's thread is very good, but redundant.

Perhaps I/O and Inboard oriented folks don't look there. Could personal preference have clouded their judgement?
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Moderator Needed.......

JB,

Not to be argumentative or to simply extend this any further, but there are pinned things in other Sections that are also similar to FAQ stuff (uh JohnnyRude and Boat for example). I believe what Don has done is to help out the Section, so that it is obvious to newbies who go straight to the I/O section without ever seeing (or looking for) the FAQ's. This seems like a good way to help thin out redundant threads too, especially during this time of the year . . . My .02 , over and out. :)
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: Moderator Needed.......

Hmmm .......When a person take's his or her own personal time, using a vast amount of professional experience and donate's it to a forum, lending credibility to the forum @ no cost and is articulated correctly and it's not made a sticky........or pinned, i'd guess someone (highest probality) has lost touch with some basic community motivation, which is indeed rare these day's
I can only guess how many forum's would take a contribution so lightly?...........:}
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: Moderator Needed.......

The fuel system how to and the starter system how to should also be pinned

The same questions get asked about 20 times a week :(


Tommays
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Moderator Needed.......

JB said:
Winterizing is well covered in the Engine FAQs, as pointed out above. Don's thread is very good, but redundant.

Perhaps I/O and Inboard oriented folks don't look there. Could personal preference have clouded their judgement?

With all do respect to the Supreme Mariner,

Why would a newbie that owns an I/O NOT go directly to the I/O forum??

The FAQ on winterizing IS NOT complete for I/O purposes. But unless you owned and serviced one, how would you know. And not living in a Northern climate, why would you need to know or care.

Furthermore, I'll state it again, the FAQ section as it currently exists, relates 90% to Outboards. If I'm wrong, please prove it to me otherwise.

*******************************************

I thought the "Pinning" feature (Note: most other forums refer to it as "Sticky", i.e. Post It Notes) was one of the advantages of the new board? But we don't want to take advantage of it?

The very fact that it took nearly a week for a MOD to respond (Thanks DJ, we appreciate your help) kind of proves the point. I/O is the Step-child forum at Iboats.
"Nuff said. :|
 

shelikesit

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
171
Re: Moderator Needed.......

To me winterizing is putting on a long-sleeved shirt and sometimes even a coat.

i did a search as to how many people turn to the net for winterizing possesions. its pretty big for boats, rv's and beleive it or not lawns.

i wonder if the net needs an area just for this........ id call it............. winterizeit

i went through 82 pics KaGee, it was well spent time :)
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Moderator Needed.......

Appreciate the recognition, Tail Gunner.

Yes, it does take a lot of personal time and experience.

Averaging 5 minutes per post (reads, moves, edits and deletions don't count) it comes to slightly over one year of 40 hour weeks. No charge.

I am pinning Don's excellent post.

If anyone wants to write a FAQ article on a FAQ that ISN'T covered, please use contact us to request consideration for inclusion.
 
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