Modifying a 1975 Trail-R-Craft

[JimS123]

Not rocket science.

Move the boat back (and winch stand) an inch. The outdrive should be in a better position. If the tongue weight is too light now, leave the boat where it is. The OD is going to be up when traveling anyway, so it won't matter.

That boat does not need electric brakes. With your truck don't over-complicate things. You have a capable truck.

I can't climb in my boat either, so I bought a light weight plastic step ladder. Problem solved. The other option is to install a transom ladder, or use an after-market hang-on boarding ladder.

I don't readily see a problem with the winch stand from the pics. It looks like it is adjusted perfectly. If it is damaged, buy a new one. Lots to chose from online from the various trailer parts companies. Buy new, not an old rusty one from ebay.

 

[ratdude747]

Not rocket science.

Move the boat back (and winch stand) an inch. The outdrive should be in a better position. If the tongue weight is too light now, leave the boat where it is. The OD is going to be up when traveling anyway, so it won't matter.

That boat does not need electric brakes. With your truck don't over-complicate things. You have a capable truck.

I can't climb in my boat either, so I bought a light weight plastic step ladder. Problem solved. The other option is to install a transom ladder, or use an after-market hang-on boarding ladder.

I don't readily see a problem with the winch stand from the pics. It looks like it is adjusted perfectly. If it is damaged, buy a new one. Lots to chose from online from the various trailer parts companies. Buy new, not an old rusty one from ebay.

Not pointing a finger, but please read the original post again.

The crux of the issue is that this trailer was likely designed for a 17ft minimum length... but this trailer happens to be what the marina had to trade for the original trailer that also fit the needs of the original owner.

Just because the current setup worked for 48 years doesn't necessarily make it right or in any case make it ideal. But, it's possible to rework the trailer to better handle my 16' hull without having to replace the whole thing, so when such a replacement turned into a boondoggle, reworking the trailer is the direction I'm opting to go.

The winch stand literally cannot move further back... it's at the limit of it's travel:



Likewise, the entire fender/leaf spring/axle assembly is attached to the frame with U-bolts (fully adjustable). So, however far I move the boat, I can also move the assembly to keep the tongue weight consistent. Ditto for the front keel roller.

One of my concerns is that the bunks are seeing excessive load due to the transom being past the rearmost bunk supports. Also, any bit I can move the boat backwards is less deep I need to back the trailer to launch. Hasn't been an issue other than the one bunk rotting to pieces last season due to pitot tube damage from the excessive bunk stickout. Still don't like it.

So, the plan is to install the new winch stand (see below) so the current position is maintained (with gap between the stand and the upper tube end); once the boat is on the water on a future outing, I'll move the stand and axle assemblies on shore (no boat weight). Ideally 9", which puts the transom just past the end of the inner bunks (and a bit further past the outer bunks) and with the transom straps at the correct angle (pulling the boat into the bow roller, not away from it as is current).

My 1984 F150's brakes are not all that great (even with everything in working order)... I did fry the fronts last season. This generation of F-series (Chevy of this vintage too) are known to have brakes that leave a lot to be desired.

Yes, with a bigger/newer truck with better brakes, trailer brakes wouldn't be warranted... but, since I already have flanges for brakes on the current axle and my truck already has a good brake controller and a fully wired 7-way connection, I see not adding such brakes as a relatively low hanging fruit, and a lot less expense than changing trucks.

I don't know what the GVW of the boat and trailer actually is... the max GVW of the trailer is just over 3000lb (IIRC around 2600lb max boat/gear weight per the trailer tag). As for the boat itself, JD power says 1500lb, but I don't know which engine option that's for (I have a mercruiser 888 302, the heaviest option offered- the engine alone is reportedly 460lb per Ford). Some jurisdictions (Ohio, for example) require brakes on 3000lb... while the limit in Indiana is 3500lb, I figure it can't hurt and several people I know personally agreed that brakes wouldn't be a terrible idea.

----

I'll be driving up Friday to look at the boat winch/stand in my last post. I was able to get some more information on it... the orange junk in the pic is dirt from sitting in a gravel lot behind the guy's shop. Certainly looks beefy enough (beefier than the new option I posted previously). And the measurements do check out (should be able to get the full 9" I want). Yes, it is used. But I already have a virtually new winch to swap (that nasty old winch is going to the scrap pile)... and if the structural steel is solid (not rotted out) and not mangled, then good as new for my purposes.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

This might be a dumb idea, but can you just shorten the trailer? Cut out a section of the frame and move the back forward where you want it.

 

[ratdude747]

This might be a dumb idea, but can you just shorten the trailer? Cut out a section of the frame and move the back forward where you want it.

Not easily without causing structural issues and/or having to redo the bunks and a bunch of things. And I'd rather keep the length... rather, use the length differently.

Seems that a different winch stand will fix it... just took a bit to find one. We shall see.

 

[JimS123]

Not pointing a finger, but please read the original post again.

I DID read the entire post in the first place and I still don't think you have a big problem. I think you are over-thinking it.

The boat is well cradled. As long as your tongue weight is sufficient, it does not matter how far the bunks stick out the back. Most issues are when a trailer is too short and the BOAT is hanging out the back.

If you are having launching problems, install EZSlides on the bunks. Then it'll launch with a push of a finger.

If brakes make you comfortable, go for it. I have pulled bigger and heavier trailers with a CAR. Pickemuptrucks usually have bigger brakes anyway. If you fried yours then I would look more toward fixing whatever caused that to happen.

As an aside, I would throw your bow safety chain away and replace it with a chain/turnbuckle bow tiedown. Your chain will catch your boat as is is flying off the trailer, while a tiedown will keep the boat firmly affixed on the trailer.

Good luck with your endeavors.

 

[ratdude747]

I DID read the entire post in the first place and I still don't think you have a big problem. I think you are over-thinking it.

The boat is well cradled. As long as your tongue weight is sufficient, it does not matter how far the bunks stick out the back. Most issues are when a trailer is too short and the BOAT is hanging out the back.

If you are having launching problems, install EZSlides on the bunks. Then it'll launch with a push of a finger.

If brakes make you comfortable, go for it. I have pulled bigger and heavier trailers with a CAR. Pickemuptrucks usually have bigger brakes anyway. If you fried yours then I would look more toward fixing whatever caused that to happen.

As an aside, I would throw your bow safety chain away and replace it with a chain/turnbuckle bow tiedown. Your chain will catch your boat as is is flying off the trailer, while a tiedown will keep the boat firmly affixed on the trailer.

Good luck with your endeavors.

Some final responses:

My formerly damaged bunk board (fabric ripped by a pitot tube mount which allowed the board to rot into a brittle mess) and transom straps angled the wrong way (pulling away from the winch, not towards it) indicate that the position isn't ideal. Yes, the other way around is a far worse/dangerous condition, but since I have a damaged/suspect winch stand (and a trailer design that allows for moving the axle to re-balance tongue weight), why not replace it with something that allows for an improved adjustment? It's currently adjusted the best that the current/stock trailer hardware would allow (and given the failure of the other trailer project, I wouldn't have bothered if the winch stand wasn't damaged). But, since I'll have a perfect opportunity to improve it, why not?

I had considered bunk slicks (around the same time as making and swapping the faulty bunk board), but due to cost and fears of things being "too slick" I ended up just using wally world spray silicone (poor man's liquid rollers). Other than the time I accidentally used a river shore instead of an actual boat ramp, I've never failed to launch... but it's always been a bit stressful having to get the truck tires several inches deep (up to the rim edge). I did swap to better tires (AT instead of road touring) and upgraded rear ends (Open to Helical LSD), but considering that the truck is still RWD, I'll take any fringe benefit I can catch.

The brakes frying was partially due to making the mistake of descending a hill known to be bad for towing (steep and winding)... and I since upgraded to "towing rated" front pads to help as part of the repair. Everything in the truck's brake system is known to be good (heck, everything but a the proportioning valve and most of the hard lines have been replaced/upgraded in the last 6 years)... but the details of that is on another forum. Heck, you can't even lock the wheels up unless the roads are slick and tires aren't up to snuff.

That chain was something I added (leftover from swapping the trailer safety chains for longer lengths). Originally it had nothing other than a lazily wrapped/tied half-rotten rope and a rustly fickle winch with a rotten rope for bow retention. And the current winch stand has nowhere to connect any sort of retention device (no eye or the like). I knew I was going to replace the stand down the road and had seen other trailers with such a chain... so I figured it was a move in the right direction and could be improved later.

 

[ratdude747]

One more possible issue with brakes I just realized: are the 4 u-bolts holding the axle/spring assembly to the frame able to take the braking load?



They're the same diameter as as the two that hold the winch stand, but they (obviously don't have bunk friction helping reduce the load. Not that trailer brakes stop things that quickly?

 

[JimS123]

Some final responses:

transom straps angled the wrong way (pulling away from the winch, not towards it) indicate that the position isn't ideal.

a trailer design that allows for moving the axle to re-balance tongue weight

I had considered bunk slicks (around the same time as making and swapping the faulty bunk board), but due to cost and fears of things being "too slick" I ended up just using wally world spray silicone (poor man's liquid rollers).

get the truck tires several inches deep (up to the rim edge). ..... but considering that the truck is still RWD, I'll take any fringe benefit I can catch.

The straps are angled the wrong way because the ratchet assembly was installed in the wrong place. They are not an optimum product anyway because eventually they rust internally and don't work any more. A drill and a SS Eye Bolt in the correct place, plus a conventional tie down strap will last for many years.

If your tongue weight is OK now, don't think moving the axle is a panacea. Those old rusted bolts may be a PITA to break free.

There are 7 steps to launch a boat (per the Trailer Boats User Manual - circa 1968). Follow the steps for a hassle free launch. Nobody ever said the bunks were too slick - only that the boat doesn't move well enough. Silicone spray might help in the short term, but it wears off.

My Towcar is rear wheel dive. Been using RWD forever. It's not a problem. If you have to put the vehicle's rear wheels under water you have violated the aforementioned 7 rules. (or the launch ramp is very shallow and not designed per usual requirements)

Just trying to help. I read the "book" back in 1968 and although I have had problems over the years, 57 years of building and customizing trailers I have learned a lot. When I launch and retrieve, bystanders usually watch me with their mouths open.

As I said before, you have a good trailer. If the winch stand is damaged, replace it for sure. But the photos don't indicate a problem.

 

[ratdude747]

The straps are angled the wrong way because the ratchet assembly was installed in the wrong place. They are not an optimum product anyway because eventually they rust internally and don't work any more. A drill and a SS Eye Bolt in the correct place, plus a conventional tie down strap will last for many years.

If your tongue weight is OK now, don't think moving the axle is a panacea. Those old rusted bolts may be a PITA to break free.

There are 7 steps to launch a boat (per the Trailer Boats User Manual - circa 1968). Follow the steps for a hassle free launch. Nobody ever said the bunks were too slick - only that the boat doesn't move well enough. Silicone spray might help in the short term, but it wears off.

My Towcar is rear wheel dive. Been using RWD forever. It's not a problem. If you have to put the vehicle's rear wheels under water you have violated the aforementioned 7 rules. (or the launch ramp is very shallow and not designed per usual requirements)

Just trying to help. I read the "book" back in 1968 and although I have had problems over the years, 57 years of building and customizing trailers I have learned a lot. When I launch and retrieve, bystanders usually watch me with their mouths open.

As I said before, you have a good trailer. If the winch stand is damaged, replace it for sure. But the photos don't indicate a problem.

View attachment 406540

In no order:
The original transom straps (a wire cam lock style) were very confusing to use (we almost gave up on using them as we couldn't remember how they were laced!). Yes, they had no ratchet to rust up, but swapping them for the boat buckles I have installed currently was one of the first things I did after the first outing under my ownership as an ease-of-use and "cannot lose since bolted to the trailer) improvement. Currently the transom eyes are forward of the strap eyes, so the old straps were also angled backwards to some degree.

The U bolts for the axle assembly somewhat surprisingly aren't rusted... the only rusty u bolt on the trailer frame is one side of one of the bow winch stand bolts (and if it gives me trouble that my 1/2" impact gun can't solve, I'll cut the bolt leg off). When I had to pull the bunk brackets when replacing the bunk, the fasteners there came apart no problem, even one with some mild surface rust. Even then, the tongue weight currently seems to be sufficient... moving the axle is merely to compensate for moving the boat position on the bunks in the future. Any moves to the axle position would be done at the same time as moving the bow roller position, to maintain rough tongue weight before and after the move. .

I (or whoever is fetching the tow vehicle) sprays the bunks with the silicone before driving to the ramp. I don't know what if any benifit there is, but it's cheap enough and every little bit helps.

It has to be backed in so far likely because of how high the boat/trailer rides (cannot gain sufficient buoyancy). That was what the second trailer was meant to fix and how the original trailer was meant to work (the current trailer was't original, after all). Backing up with the truck out of the water completely always resulted in a very stuck boat that wouldn't budge (first launch almost was a complete failure!). As a result, we'd back it up until I (who always did the launching) felt the boat start to float, and then I over the bow (or somebody wading by the bow) would release the winch and unhook, at which point the . Almost always, this was with the water just touching the bottom of the truck's rear rims. And this was at every ramp I used last year... with the possible exception of the local Ohio river ramp (Madison, IN), where due to a previous bad experience I opted to run a hitch extension (but in hindsight, probably wasn't necessary).

 

[ratdude747]

Winch stand fetched. Unit is in excellent structural condition (minus the winch, but I'm replacing that). Rollers are genuine stolz and in great shape too...

A long drive, yes. But so far a good road trip other than Chicago traffic...

 

[ratdude747]

Did some work in my Father-in-law's shop this morning (they live on the way home in Lafayette, IN, so we turned this adventure into a visit with them)... pulled the rusty winch and mangled U-bolt off. I then moved the winch mount to the 23.675" measurement I previously measured:



Now, to measure the roller offset:



My measurements in Post #2 did not include the base flange, so assuming they're the same (they look to be close), we're at 7.5" back.

Put that in CAD against the existing setup (again, Post #2 reference) and:



Just a shade over 9". Poifect!

I did notice the end cap of the stand post had a crack.. popped it off:



Some flakey stuff at the bottom from the flange, but the inside is just surface rust. Nothing condemning... and way better than what I currently have. As for the other side of the baseplate:



Yeah, about what you'd expect. There is a factory hole.... but clamped to to a tongue, probably won't drain much. I'll be curious to see if my existing tube has such a hole (heck, I haven't even pulled the end cap to see what's in there .

Finally, the rollers:





From what I'm seeing, a $75 set new. A bit of wear but nothing terrible... way better than the warped hunk of rubber I currently have!

Seems we do have a winner?

 

[ratdude747]

The last post is incomplete. I had my best friend show up (the one whose aunt gave me the boat!) and had to finish the post... and in doing so, I forgot a picture.

It seems that they did give a turnbuckle/chain point on the winch mount:




I'm wondering if this is to allow a chain like I added to my current winch mount to be used, but then one pulls the chain tight through the keyhole slot to take up the slack. Similar to how narrow chain hooks work; I've seen flatbed tow trucks use this trick for rear axle chains.

 

[ratdude747]

Made it home... and while it was approaching midnight and drizzling... I had to install it! (Well, mostly, see below for the caveat).

Originally, I was just going to mock it up. I already had a loose U bolt (that I discovered and didn't bother tightening up) and did this to confirm all the measurements worked out:



But, then I figured "All I need is a 9/16" deep socket and I can swap everything really quickly", so I did:



Stoltz rollers fit great:



As it turns out, yes I can use the keyhole with my chain with the winch installed:





Sure, not zero slack like a turnbuckle, but far less than a mere loose chain. Idea being one can lift/push the chain from underneath to feed a link or two forward to be able to remove the chain, but if it pulls, the slot catches the link underneath. The bolt connection is merely retention for the loose end and to ensure it's never lost when the boat is off the trailer. Edit: apparently keyholes like this (not just T-holes like I'm used to on tow trucks) are common on utility and dump trailers for safety chains... just never seen this on a boat trailer!

As for how much room did I gain to move the boat back... current measurement is 7 1/4. Obviously there's some errors in original estimations, but that's still a good number (leaves 2" of exposed bunk at the end, which is A-OK and way better than what I have now).

As for the caveat, I think the U-bolts I reused are too small (3/8", should be 1/2"):



The post doesn't self-center due to slop. It's currently a bit crooked. To be fair, the mangled U-bolt that I pulled from it this morning was also 3/8"... but I think I can do better and will see about ordering 1/2" U bolts. Edit: Seems nobody makes a 3" x 5.5" U bolt in 1/2"... so maybe this is right and I just need to straighten things out?

All said, first big step mostly complete?

 

[ratdude747]

7-way cable/junction boxes were on super sale the other day, so I ordered one... and it came in. So, I decided to install it:



Seeing this (and how terrible my old install of the the marker lights was got me thinking... could the lights be part of the box. Well, a couple of 5/8" holes with a step bit and a firm shove later:



No, I didn't seal them, but they are a very tight fit... cannot spin by hand. About as well sealed as the rest of the box is by default... this part doesn't get submerged, so I think I'll be fine. Yes, I had the "top" marking on both lights pointed straight up.

As for the ugly holes where the marker lights used to be, one side likely will be where the breakaway battery will go. The other, I don't know... but that's a cosmetic issue more than anything.

Obviously I don't have brakes yet... but this is to allow for that in the near future. One thing to be aware of if one buys one of these cable&box kits is that they often use the "RV" standard, not the SAE "traditional" standard for wire colors:



The dead giveaway is the colors used... I confirmed with a multimeter that the cable pinout is correct (which for the RV standard, it is). Thankfully, the only difference is the light controls, so everything should match up when I add brakes.

Here's everything lit up with a truck test:







I still need to tie the wiring up externally. But otherwise, another portion of the project done?

 

[ratdude747]

Technically my front marker light swap last year was illegal as those lights don't have a reflector element (I was looking for lights with dedicated ground wires, oblivious to the lack of a reflector. Not the end of the world... just use separate reflectors, right? That'll also cover up the ugly holes in the gusset tube...

 

[ratdude747]

Tied up the wiring better:



(Also got the reflectors installed... easy and cheap fix)



The main cable will be locked in place with a zip tie or two once I have the truck hooked up to it next so I can get the length dialed in. A lot of this intentionally "loose" due to all the changes yet to come.

Another thing of note... took a closer look at the warning sticker on the failed winch post:



(Not sure there's a good way to salvage and re-adhere this... Not that anybody cares about such a restoration on a boat trailer!)

Interestingly, there is a note about brakes... probably referring to 2000lb states. That partially explains the presence of brake flanges (although, it could also have been a common axle also used on tandem 7000lb trailers).

 

[ratdude747]

Came home from lunch to find my wiring being inspected:

The inspector says I'm nuts. Well. He has a point... Ok, you can stop booing now!

Anyway, I wasn't happy with the section by the jack mount, so I redid it:



I'll probably replace the spacers as white nylon and UV don't mix. But it's what Lowe's had stocked...

The part by the winch stand rubs the u-bolt but that'll resolve when I move the stand the next time the boat is off the trailer (unless I find a way to get the weight off the bunks while on land... No good ideas). And due to how the stand fits, any bow steps added will need to be the kind that mounts to the winch stand, not the tongue (as they can't be in the same place on the tongue). Thus, I only need spacers on the part by the jack mount.

One other note: moving the axle back 7" will put it directly under a crossmember. But, I have 3.25" clearance under load, so no worries... Any further back and I'll hit the bunk studs!

 

[ratdude747]

Other trailer sold... so I now have $400 to go to the brake and ladder fund. Will focus on the former since it's a bit of a safety item (I.E. not replacing wheel seals in hubs that I was going to swap for drums anyway)...

 

[ratdude747]

Parts have been purchased. Going with TruRyde brakes, but the "pro" kit with Timken bearings and seals. Also using new chrome bearing buddies as the existing clear plastic loadrite ones I have doubts about holding up on a brake hub. Finally, I am trying a solar breakaway battery system as the cost wasn't that much more than traditional (idea being a solar panel recharges the battery when not connected to a vehicle).

 

[ratdude747]

Oh boy... this will be a long one. Got the trailer brake system installed last night; been working on it since Saturday when parts started trickling in.

First, the night before last I got the breakaway box and all remote wiring installed:







Breakaway box has a solar cell on it to top off the battery. Something I trying out.

Yesterday the brake units (and other wheel/bearing hardware) came in, allowing the install to be completed.

Apparently one of the studs was never seated right in the old hub:



Brake unit installed:



(this jack setup is a bit sketchy, but everything else I tried with the trailer on grass was way sketchier! I didn't bother with jackstands due to not working directly underneath the trailer while it was on the jack)

Wheels installed with new "genuine" bearing buddies:






(I shot those this morning... but same idea)

The old plastic ones popped out very easily. The new metal bearing buddies on the other hand... they put up a fight. But eventually my 4lb dead blow won the battle!

As for the wire routing, here is what I settled on:





Other than the wire clip screws, I didn't drill any extra holes. I used the existing lighting wire route and then turned it back to the axle. This way when I move the axle in the near future (winch post relocation project) the wire length won't become a restriction.

After that, I hooked up my truck to verify all is working and to get the 7 way cable length settled:





Everything seems to fit together nicely. Other than the breakaway battery being very dead (too low for the solar to be of use, everything that I could test worked great. And the battery took enough of a charge in an hour or so of being plugged in that at least the charge tester is actually responding... hopefully the solar starts charging it the rest of the way.

I am sore... apparently this job was more intensive than I remembered! But it's finally done...