Monaco Project - QC

[QC]

Re: My Monaco Project Update (3-3-2008)

Re: My Monaco Project Update (3-3-2008)

Well thanks. Here is a mini-update. I have totally stalled out until yesterday. I have had a personal distraction, good one, but I have not been able to focus. Anyway, also, the paint dilemma got me into a funk. I spoke to the paint god yesterday and he told me that the red tint I used had no white whatsoever in it and that's why it hasn't covered. I am going to go with one shade darker which has a little white in it. I am also sanding it all with 200 and going with a thinner that should help it level better. Again prepping myself for the topsides.

Yes, I should epoxy under the deck. I think there is a coat or two already, but a good reminder to double check. Thanks.

 

[oops!]

Re: My Monaco Project Update (3-3-2008)

Re: My Monaco Project Update (3-3-2008)

i think a lot of us have stalled lately......but back atter today....if i can get this durn puter off my lap !

 

[QC]

Re: My Monaco Project Update (4-8-2008)

Re: My Monaco Project Update (4-8-2008)

OK . . . I think I am getting my 2nd wind here. Like I said, a distraction and a paint funk got me off track. In the interest of full disclosure and education I am now prepared to tell my whole paint story as stupid as it is . . . After doing a ton of research I decided to use Epifanes Mono-Urethane for the bottom and sides. The Jamestown Distributors site has a great little video that indicated Epifanes was ultimately the hardest, which was the deciding factor for me. Well being the brilliant man that I am I let one click of the mouse change my mind. I went with this stuff: Top Secret Coatings - Marine . . .

I was attracted to 2 things. One was they seemed to be similar to all of the single part epoxy coverings like the Epifanes, Pettit Easypoxy and Interlux Brightsides at a decent price. But the main reason is that he was looking for distributors and I thought it might be a nice little business for me on the side. Well I may not have given them a completely fair shake, but I used their primer, their hardener, their thinner etc. Also, the owner changed my order himself from the dark primer to the light because he "thought I was using light colors". Not sure how he got that messed up as I placed it all at the same time. Luckily I only ordered the bottom color red, and decided to wait on the sides until I determined that this paint would work. To be fair, if I had used the dark primer, I would not have the issue that I have today. Basically, I ended up with six coats on the bottom trying to cover. The thickest parts simply will not dry completely and I can pick off paint on the edges with my fingernail I noticed that a stirring stick I had been using, which I rolled off every time, was very hard. But there is only a very thin couple of coats on it. Then I noticed that I could also pick off paint in the few areas on the stick that there were runs. This convinced me that it was the thick areas that messed me up, not the paint itself. Sooooo, I called the guy trying to come up with a solution. After I noticed the primer color issue, he assured me that I would be OK. So when I was not "OK" I asked him to provide me with another Qt. of the red at a darker shade so that it would cover. He balked and wanted to charge me, so I got pizzed and decided to go back to my original plan . . .

I am now sanding the red bottom down with 320 to the point of total smoothness. I am not sanding it all of the way off, but am now using it as a primer for what I should've bought in the first place . . . Epifanes. I ordered a quart of their bright red and a qt. of deep red that I am mixing together to help match the color of the super cool boat cover I bought during the iboats cover madness special just before Xmas . . . I also bought 2 qts. of their Dark Blue which is dang near black. This should come closest to my target look:

Anyway, moral of the story? Don't change your plan after doing good research, but be willing to when you mess up and do . . . I should have the new paint in another couple of days, and in the meantime I have started to work on starting the engine on a stand with all of the water lines, thru-hulls, gauges, wiring, switches etc. hooked up as if it was already in the boat. Hopefully this will get me back to the constant push I was on. This was also before I decided there were other things at home worth paying attention to Maybe she decided . . . Hmmmmm

 

[oops!]

Re: My Monaco Project Update (3-3-2008)

Re: My Monaco Project Update (3-3-2008)

its funny how "they" (the ladies) get in the way of a good project.

mine dropped by the shop to visit last night....it was really nice...however i only got 15 minits of work done!

that sux bout the paint.....but the guy should have given you a deal because he switched the order and then told you "youll probably be ok" then when you wernt "ok" he didnt stand behind his decision...cost you a lotta work.....

but ....when you finish this time

 

[QC]

Always sand and buff?

Always sand and buff?

Well I have been trying to figure out how to put the best paint coat down on my Monaco, and I just put the last one down on the bottom, and I don't have it figured out, so there it is . . . The idea was to use the bottom as training, but I am long way off of where I want to be on the sides, and then of course the deck varnish . . .

I am gonna have to sand and buff through some brush marks that didn't quite level and also sand to knock off all of the little specs of carp. I rolled and tipped Epifanes Monourethane and thought it would level more. I have sanded and sanded and sanded, and then I sanded some more. The epoxy, the primer, the first 5 coats of the other paint and the three coats of this. 400 wet and good cleaning and tacking. I think my biggest problem is thinning. Maybe I needed to add even more, but at 20% Xylene it still won't level out the brush marks. I am rolling very thoroughly, and I am going three directions with the tip out. I know when the brush drags, and it is not that. I have tried finishing with vertical strokes and horizontal strokes. Vertical or horizontal surface. Doesn't matter, just not quite leveling out. Very good coverage, excellent shine, but it's not flat

Man, and how the heck do you guys deal with crap in the air? I let the garage settle all night. Physically threatened anyone that might open the door Watered around the perimeter. Sprayed water lightly everywhere in the garage, including myself, and I painted with no shirt on. The only real source is the tack cloth, but I am not sure how to eliminate that. Bugs, and crap, and threads, and it makes me flippin' nuts.

So, does this mean that there is no such thing as an unsanded, finish coat?

 

[gcboat]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

First off QC - what type / kind of paint are you using? Xylene is not my favorite choice of thinner for anything, flashes too quick - especially brush work.

 

[QC]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

Epifanes Monourethane ^^^^^^^ What about Toluene?

 

[oops!]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

how much are you thinning that it wont flo?

and as far as air quality......how bout running the dig shop vac with the blowing end out the window?


bugs are just a bug#%er

 

[gcboat]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

Since you are dealing with a single part enamel ( that's all it really is ) then mineral spirits for keeping the build up off your brush and some Penetrol for thinning. One of the most important things to do while tipping is to keep an almost dry ( paint free ) brush. With build up on your brush you are simply adding more paint to a layer that has started to dry thus the brush strokes.
Try working a smaller area, get some help with the roller work or just speed up your whole process. When you get old like me all you want to do is piddle with projects - can't with this.
As far as the bugs and other crap is concerned just let em' alone. You do more damage to the finish trying to remove them. When all is dry they will usually flick right off.
Can't help you with the other stuff floating around in the garage. I think wet paint is nothing more than a damn magnet for things you never would otherwise see. I seriously doubt if the tack rag is a source of contamination. If you have concerns try a different brand. I have some really good one's. If you want to, send me a PM with your address I'll be glad to send a couple your way. http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...o?pid=877&familyName=Epifanes+1-Part+Thinners

 

[QC]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

Thanks for the advice on the thinner. I was sure that the first answer would be use the Epifanes thinner. You are right about the flashing as I have to add Xylene at a faster and faster rate as I go through the job. I am starting at about 20%, but who knows what happens after that as I add small amounts to keep up with the evaporation.

Can I get Penetrol at local places like Home Despot? Someone posted on the Glen-L site that Xylene was the same stuff as the manufacturers use and label as proprietary, I guess that was bunk . . .

Speed is definitely an issue. I am doing this alone and it is the entire bottom of a 20 footer to the waterline. I need a partner, but I don't really have anybody I can trust other than my 15 YO who is in school etc. No one else would take it seriously enough so I try and make do . . .

I am still curious if it is possible to put down a final coat which does not require sanding and buffing? Is that just stupid? Or with luck and help from the paint gods could I simply wax over a final coat after it has cured?

 

[tommays]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

When i paint i have a BIG blower that i use to suck air out of the room and (fumes as well ) and i put i furnace filter in the window to clean the incoming air


One of those floor blowers will move a LOT of air if you set the intake up right



You do have to be carefull MY motor is isolated from the air flow so it will not go BOOM BUT buy then you would have passed out any way

 

[MikDee]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

Yes, it sounds like your paint or varnish is drying too fast, leaving brush strokes. Somwhere along the way, in the finishing you might want to try superfine steel wool, and or, pumice (I think it's the same thing used in rubbing compound), and used in finishing fine furniture. I know it is a b**ch to get that perfect finish.

 

[gcboat]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

Hey QC,

My local Home Cheapo carries the Penetrol, just a shot in the dark if yours does. All quality paint stores ( Ben Moore, Sherwin-Williams, etc. ) will carry it. For your project a quart will be plenty.
Now - if you want this to go on nice and brush mark free you're going to have to sand everything flat - again !!! Remove as much sanding dust as you can with a vacuum. Wipe all of it down with mineral spirits. Don't need to have a rag dripping wet with the mineral spirits just enough to pick up the remaining dust. Change it often.
Now, give that an hour or so to completely dry then make your first pass with a GOOD tack cloth. When all of your paint is mixed and you're ready to go - use a fresh tack cloth and wipe down just what you're going to paint, say a 4 X 4 foot section. Keep that process up till you're done. Section at a time. Oh, you'll get bugs and stuff but a lot less than you've been dealing with.
As I mentioned in my previous post just use the very edge of the brush to tip, keep the brush as dry as possible and no beer breaks until you can find a corner to stop. And throw that xylene away.
Regards to the Penetrol - as a guide start with a 1/2 quart of paint and add about 1/4 inch of Penetrol. As you go along let your brush be your guide. If all is feeling nice and easy then leave it alone. If not, add a little more. It will not lay down instantly ( like a sprayed finish ). Takes about 30 minutes or so to see any substantial results. Don't make the mistake of trying to "brush"
it down - it will come together for you. Because Penetrol retards the drying time be careful on the amount of paint you apply as the paint might start to curtain ( or sag ) on you. If it does leave it alone !!!! You can get those laps out with a small hand help nibbler.
Wish you good luck with this continuing project. Oh, one more thing. Stay away from steel wool. If you must use bronze wool, but I don't think it will be necessary.
Jerry

 

[MikDee]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

Hey QC,
Oh, one more thing. Stay away from steel wool. If you must use bronze wool, but I don't think it will be necessary.
Jerry

Jerry, You sound well informed, Thanks for that, I wasn't sure if that would help, or hinder, sorry QC

 

[gcboat]

Re: Always sand and buff?

Re: Always sand and buff?

MikDee,

The only thing wrong with using steel wool is that it rusts ( obviously). If you miss just the smallest piece of it the finish will have a little spot of rust showing through - eventually. I really don't think there is any place for steel wool on a boat.
Informed - ahhhhhhhhhh????? I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last month.

 

[QC]

Monaco Project update 7-24

Monaco Project update 7-24

Reference this thread.

Well thanks to gcboat I think I am finally starting to get it . . . THANK YOU!!!

Here's my first coat on the sides

I obviously had to learn how to handle the Penetrol, but I think I got it on the 2nd coat:

I am much happier now, and I have learned to control the runs at the top. I now roll lightly in the center of the section I am working on and don't take the roller to the masking until it has lost some paint. I sanded down the 1st coat with used wet 400, and I'll probably sand this coat with wet 600. It's getting to the quality I was hoping for although you can still slightly see brush strokes which is evident in the reflection of the yellow strap. I will probably put down three more coats and I am hoping that I'll get the last one to where I may not have to color sand at all.

I guess I still have that same old question though, should I expect to have to sand the final coat no matter how good I get it?

Nothing like a good shine to help get my motivation back up. Man . . . between boatin' and bummin' I have been dragging . . . :redface:

 

[oops!]

Re: Monaco Project update 7-24

Re: Monaco Project update 7-24

what the heck are ya doin qc????

why did you air brush everything in your garage on the side of the boat???? .

before you sand that shine....i would test sand on a seperate peice before you 600 grit to 1200 grit the final finish

 

[QC]

Monaco Project - QC

Getting this thing going again and I need your help to stay motivated. I have let almost 18 months get away and I have to finish this or I will:

a) be the laughing stock of my neighborhood

b) be embarrassed to show my face here

c) be out some money that I promised my family I would recoup and

d) leave my kids with a bad lesson

All four are unacceptable so I need to rock on!!!!!

Sooooo, I have merged all of my previous threads and I am hoping to end up with daily updates that you guys comment on and hopefully keep be pumped to finish this thing.

For a variety of reasons, personal and project related, I have been stalled at the upside down paint stage:

I am a little past this as I have another coat of paint down on the sides and I have moved her back inside for working over the winter. The last post will put you at the point where I am struggling now . . .

Oh, I did make some progress on the engine, fuel tank, wiring and instruments noted in this thread, but I have kept that out of here as it is more engine related than restore. I'll put the install stuff in here when I get there.

 

[QC]

Re: Monaco Project - QC

So here's my current and never ending dilemma. If these pics look familiar that would explain "current and never ending" . . . I put down a coat of paint, sand out the brush marks, and end up with no build up. So I will end up using 17 gallons of paint and have 2 mils of thickness Looking over the previous posts again this morning, it was suggested that I should put the early coats on thicker. I have been heading the other direction; thinning more to try and eliminate the brush marks, so I don't have to sand the whole coat off. This is Epifanes Monourethane and I am using their brushing thinner:

Not bad right? Then:

And then, after a light sanding . . .

So I get PO'd, sand some more and basically start over and waste paint. WTF should I do? Invest in a Paint store? Sand it all off and start spraying? Write off the entire project and make it into a planter? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

OK, that feels better. Help!

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Monaco Project - QC

Getting this thing going again and I need your help to stay motivated. I have let almost 18 months get away and I have to finish this or I will:

a) be the laughing stock of my neighborhood Uhhh you might be now

b) be embarrassed to show my face here You should be ashamed!!

c) be out some money that I promised my family I would recoup and Oh no Momma going to kick your butt!!

d) leave my kids with a bad lesson so you admit you are a bad influence

All four are unacceptable so I need to rock on!!!!! Well all four might be true and you are just getting around to admitting it!!

. . .

Okay... now that you are 50 get used to this stuff!!! You need to go and buy the wife a few more diamonds and a selection of Coach purses or a selection of Louis Vuitton goods.

About time this project surfaced!!