Moral Dilemma

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Come on people, employees do not set the rules and ones that try to are not employees very long.

Especially cleaners at the bottom of line. Don't mean to sound blunt, but lets call a spade a spade here.
My suggestion is this.
Get clear instructions from your boss as to exactly what he expects you to do, (which i believe you already have)and if you want to keep your job, then do it.
Sorry, there is no moral dilemma here. You are at the bottom of the food chain, and if you don't like it, then leave and find an employer who will be happy to work in with you and at your pace. End of story.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[QC]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Yeah, I'm with Bubba and Phill here, with a dash of JB for good measure. You are not going to make your boss, or the company, smarter or even different at this point. If you don't believe that you can do the job you are being paid to do because they won't let you do it right, then you need to go.

I have a guy that works for me, Chemistry PhD. I guess he's technically a scientist . . . He is demanding that we must have test results, or absolute black and white clarity on every little thing we do. He won't even answer simple questions like "could we make this?" if there is any speculation required. He will only reply if he knows absolutely from cold hard data. Well the fact is, we can't afford cold hard data for every little thing we do. He's right of course, but who gives a flyin' flip if being right causes us to go out of business before we can make any revenue, and hopefully profit.

Yes, I understand that we are talking food safety here, but again, you aren't the people making these decisions. They pay other people to make these decisions and if you don't like it you gotta go . . .

 

[Cofe]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Yep:
In the event of a salmonella outbreak from the dirty meat preparation machinery, the company would get slapped and the employee would probably get fired. Yep:

 

[tswiczko]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Look for a policy and procedure manual for the cleaning of the equipment if there is none then contact the health dep. for a procedure manual as to how the equipment is to be cleaned and sanitized and what the schedule for that procedure is

BUT...... I would start looking for a different job prior to that because when the health dept. shows up some one is probably going to get into trouble and they( your employer) will figure out who called

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Sounds like there trying to get you to get some hussel in your step. I have a young guy under me who uses that same kinda comment's to slack off like. Do you want me to go fast and miss something or go slow ( make some puppies) without mistakes. What your doing is not rocket science find a happy medium or find a job that suits you better.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Moral Dilemma

People are getting all upset because of a veiled threat against public health. There is absolutely no proof that is what's happening. We have a person assigned to cleaning equipment who is complaining about not having enough time to do his work.

I've been in the food service industry and have needed to provide coaching to get someone to get the lead out. Some people are taking a leap and imagining some pretty bad things. Let's not go overboard here. I'll be the first one to say that the status quo is not necessarily the best or what we should be doing. A fresh set of eyes is sometimes the best way to get a new view. But that doesnt mean that every beginner has revealed deep and sinister secrets and that public health is at stake here.

If the OP feels the health of his community is being jeopardized and that he should drop a dime on his employer then that's what he should do. Otherwise, buck up and learn to do the job the right way as thousands of others do it every day.

Just remember - the squeaky wheel doesn't allways get the grease - sometimes it gets replaced!

 

[tswiczko]

Re: Moral Dilemma

I see points from both sides. and Pirate you are right, there is no proof. I would think that with something with as much importance as keeping the equipment sanitary, there would be a company policy/procedure manual somewhere,

AND that manual should be adhered to strictly or the employee is derelict in their duties...

And if there is no set procedure as to how that equipment is to be cleaned( other than just hit it with the hose tonight Jim we need help in sporting goods because Sussie called off) then there needs to be some kind of standard for the safe cleaning of the equipment and documentation log as to it was done.

I spent nine years as an Air Quality Technician at a state facility certifying surgical suites and labs for air flow and filtration along with cooling tower water treatment to prevent an outbreak of somethingthing like legionela.

And I learned over that time spent doing that if it can affect public health then there is probably a procedure manual as to how it is to be done to keep the public safe, and documentation to back up your work.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Moral Dilemma

I have to say the bottom line is, do what your boss is telling you to do. If someone gets sick it's on him, not you. That line of work is very fast paced, or it should be. Their is only so much time in a shift and so much to get done. I say, get it done and then some or find something else to do.

Calling the health dept is not the answer. These people sign your check. So what will happen if the health dept shuts them down or gives them a huge fine?

I will also say that if you need help doing it the right way then why do they need you or thy coud always cut your pay in half and hire someone to do the other half of your work and give them the other half of your pay.

I,m not trying to make you mad. Jobs are hard to find. Be happy with what you have and get the job done and don't wine about it. At least your working.

 

[scoutboater]

Re: Moral Dilemma

WOW. I am amazed at what a hot topic I have started today. To answer a few questions I've read.

No, the USDA does not have an on-site inspector.

There is a cleaning log that I sign daily, and a manager signs after me that they inspected it and it appeared clean. For the record, I have never gotten less than a perfect rating except for twice when I was directly told to go home.

I am not servesafe certified, but I have been trained by my company in food handling.

This is not my first cleaning job, nor is it my first meat department to clean.

To respond to Bond-O, when I say I could be faster, that is only if I am willing (in my opinion) to put the health of all the customers at risk of the several diseases mentioned here, and many others.

Lastly, I am not being counselled for working slow. I don't know many people who sweat in a 40 degree F room on a regular basis.

I know jobs are hard to find right now, and I don't plan on giving this one up. Given that, I will also not be compromising on clean. Thank you for all the responses.

 

[Cofe]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Safety is Always First

If you feel you cannot do the job, it will take a good person, to admit to a supervisor that they cannot perform the job and insure safety. He may fire you, reassign you or adjust your duties.

In areas that deal with your safety, or others safety it is important to document everything. Time, date and description of safety problem. Get co-workers to sign if possible. Safety Is Most Important, and I guess that is a Moral Dilemma.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Especially cleaners at the bottom of line. Don't mean to sound blunt, but lets call a spade a spade here......... You are at the bottom of the food chain,.......

Thats a bit of a low blow.

Hmmmm, I wonder what the 29 people in our QR and Sanitation department would say to that? Or my 180 co-workers that do sanitation as part of their job?
Why does my boss pay these people $38,000 to $60,000 a year? Surely he could get someone to do it for $7 an hour.

Get real.


Scout - keep up the good work.
Sounds like you know your stuff and take your job seriously.

You do a thankless job that too few people take seriously.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Moral Dilemma

The boss might be completely wrong (I think not),
you can decide whether you want to be right or have job.

Unless they ask you to mix sawdust in the burger meat there is no moral dilemma.
You either want to work quicker or not.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Moral Dilemma

I admit, I could be faster.
Ayuh,.... 'nough said,...

Maybe it's time to look for a job you're Better at....

Exactly the point.

 

[scoutboater]

Re: Moral Dilemma

To those of you who have told me that you prefer for your food to be clean, thank you.

To those of you who are telling me that I dont know what I'm talking about, that my boss makes the rules, and all of that, I have one last thought for you:

How do you feel about eating off of tables that are permanantly stained with blood and have mold growing on the bottom, or from saws that havent been properly dissassembled in a month and have rotting meat festering between two different parts, or out of a grinder that...
Well, you get the point...​

 

[QC]

Re: Moral Dilemma

I think you're missing our points though . . . None of us like contaminated food, none of us like unscrupulous businesses, none of us like jerk bosses. What you do under those circumstances is the only question . . .

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Hold on there big guy, your in a public forum and your bound to get some criticism from some, how you deal with that criticism is up to you, but lets not get to irritated by it, no one on this forum knows you personally and TBH only you can decide how to react to your situation, I agree with your last statement that I expect the very cleanest conditions where I eat, and purchase food, if I don't see clean conditions I leave, That is my choice and you have a choice to make in your job, if you can't come to an agreement with your boss as to the speed at which you do your job and the cleanliness you achieve at that speed then you can either suck it up or move on its your choice. If you came on the forum to look for compassion I understand but its a public forum so get ready there is going to be some viewpoints that are not what your looking for!

Its a tough deal my friend but thats the situation you find yourself in. I used to have my Elk processed at a place I had faith in, one day I brought in an animal and I was disgusted with the conditions I found and I went to another highly recommended processor, I know that meat processors have difficult situations and standards to deal with but all you can do is make a decision, its your choice bud!

 

[JRJ]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Got me thinking about the butcher shops that process deer and elk for out of state hunters.......talk about clean

Anyway, if it gets to the point that you won't buy your meat there.......move on.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Got me thinking about the butcher shops that process deer and elk for out of state hunters.......talk about clean

Anyway, if it gets to the point that you won't buy your meat there.......move on.

OOF heard those horror stories!! No thanks I'll pack it on ice and take it home before I will do that!

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Moral Dilemma

scoutboater, it's been asked, but I don't think you addressed the question: is there a set of written policies / checklist for your sanitation procedures?

If so, then yes, follow those--even if you think they're subpar--and your butt's covered.

If not, make them write you one, because without this it's going to be your butt on the line if something does go wrong, and all your past glowing reviews will mean nothing because you'll get blamed for "this one time that you screwed up."

(EDIT: you said there's a "log" you sign, but is that a specific checklist?)

Now supposing there is (or you get them to make) such a policy / checklist, and you still think it's subpar. IMO, by all means bring up your concerns to the next-higher on the chain-of-command, in writing / email (hardcopy) so there's a record; then your conscience is clean, you've not stepped on toes, and who knows, maybe the policies may eventually improve. Heck, if the company gives a crap about their business or about public safety, you should get commended for caring.

To those who said "yer low-man so just shut up and do as you're told"--by God, I couldn't stand to work for such an ignoramous for even a single day, nor would I want to even be a customer of such a backward-thinking person who cares so little about people or process improvement.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Moral Dilemma

scoutboater, it's been asked, but I don't think you addressed the question: is there a set of written policies / checklist for your sanitation procedures?

If so, then yes, follow those--even if you think they're subpar--and your butt's covered.

If not, make them write you one, because without this it's going to be your butt on the line if something does go wrong, and all your past glowing reviews will mean nothing because you'll get blamed for "this one time that you screwed up."

(EDIT: you said there's a "log" you sign, but is that a specific checklist?)

Now supposing there is (or you get them to make) such a policy / checklist, and you still think it's subpar. IMO, by all means bring up your concerns to the next-higher on the chain-of-command, in writing / email (hardcopy) so there's a record; then your conscience is clean, you've not stepped on toes, and who knows, maybe the policies may eventually improve. Heck, if the company gives a crap about their business or about public safety, you should get commended for caring.

To those who said "yer low-man so just shut up and do as you're told"--by God, I couldn't stand to work for such an ignoramous for even a single day, nor would I want to even be a customer of such a backward-thinking person who cares so little about people or process improvement.

Welcome to the real world.
I see this tread getting closed, real soon.