Moral Dilemma

[LippCJ7]

Re: Moral Dilemma

What you got a line on JB's itchy trigger finger PG??

 

[avenger79]

Re: Moral Dilemma

ok i have a slightly vested interest in this one. girlie has her own cleaning business and now that times are not great she also works in a hosp cleaning for them.

in her business she cleans her way. all satisfied customers.

in the hosp, they pay the bills and take the risk, she cleans their way. folks have lost their job for not taking recommended shortcuts. it is not the way she would clean it if it were her name on the line. yes people have gotten sick because of the shortcuts but it is the hosp name and liability. it is up to them to decide how well to do the job.
when she first started there she was constantly being "trained" how to do things "better" ie quicker. she has cleaned for 5 star hotels and many years on her own. she knows how to do it right, they want it done fast and good enough.

 

[Cofe]

Re: Moral Dilemma

ok i have a slightly vested interest in this one. girlie has her own cleaning business and now that times are not great she also works in a hosp cleaning for them.

in her business she cleans her way. all satisfied customers.

in the hosp, they pay the bills and take the risk, she cleans their way. folks have lost their job for not taking recommended shortcuts. it is not the way she would clean it if it were her name on the line. yes people have gotten sick because of the shortcuts but it is the hosp name and liability. it is up to them to decide how well to do the job.
when she first started there she was constantly being "trained" how to do things "better" ie quicker. she has cleaned for 5 star hotels and many years on her own. she knows how to do it right, they want it done fast and good enough.

I hope surgeons in hospitals do not have this same attitude.

 

[avenger79]

Re: Moral Dilemma

I hope surgeons in hospitals do not have this same attitude.

i'll answer that with a quote from a lab tech. "business is business"

I broke my hand a number of years ago. when I went to get it checked by surgeon to see if it needed to be pinned or whatever. he was all interested in it, then looked at my chart. "I see you don't have insurance"
"nope"
"well lucky for you this thing should heal up just fine without surgery"

still have a lump in that hand from not healing right. oh well.

hospitals are first and foremost a business. their profit margin depends on healing you, while saving money and cutting costs like any other business.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Hey Everybody, got one for ya. I'm just looking for opinions on this btw.

I took a job about 8 months ago cleaning the meat department at ******. When I was hired, the market manager impressed upon me that it was my job to clean the market most of the time (5 nights a week as it has been), and of course talk to the customers and keep the cases full. Now, I understood this as my primary duty - cleaning the meat market, and some secondary duties - helping members and keeping the case full.

No Problem, I can do all of that.

Now heres the problem: He pulls me aside the other day and gives me a 'verbal warning' about how long it is taking me to clean. I admit, I could be faster. They have shown me shortcuts on things, such as not taking the band saw all the way apart every night, or leaving certain pieces in the grinder. However, I feel that its my job to clean the room to the point that nobody gets sick, not just to pass inspection. I have tried all of the tricks they showed me, and I've picked up a few small things.

All that said, heres my actually question: If it were you, would you insist on the room being completely clean and sanitary; or would you compromise, mostly clean stuff, and risk somebody getting sick?

Can you get me a good deal on some meat?

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Moral Dilemma

I hope surgeons in hospitals do not have this same attitude.

Most don't.
Some may consider a hospital to be a business to make money, but like most businesses, they don't want lawsuits and bad PR from a rash of preventable infections.

Right now hospitals are facing a huge problem with MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus). This strain is highly infective, and like the name suggests, is very resistant to treatment. Not only can it cause nasty skin infections, but if It gets into your blood stream it can be really serious. When you get it in your blood it can take weeks for it to incubate (you don't know you have it). When it is fully matured, it acts like the flu (people feel tired/weak, joint pain,chills, etc). I had a friend who was spending time with his GF in the hospital (GF was having problems with her lungs), and even though he was not the patient he contracted MRSA in a cut on his stomach. He passed of his initial symptoms as the flu, but eventually realized it was something else. He came very close to it being fatal.

I'll bet most well informed managers, nurses, and doctors at most hospitals would be very interested if the management of the cleaning staff was advising people to cut corners.

 

[scoutboater]

Re: Moral Dilemma

I think you're missing our points though . . . None of us like contaminated food, none of us like unscrupulous businesses, none of us like jerk bosses. What you do under those circumstances is the only question . . .

QC, I apologize for my attitude in that post. I had just come off of a long weekend with my boss staring over my shoulder. I did not mean to be such a smart a**.

Hold on there big guy, your in a public forum and your bound to get some criticism from some, ...

Thank you Lipp, I do realize this is a public forum, and again, I apologize for my comments.

scoutboater, it's been asked, but I don't think you addressed the question: is there a set of written policies / checklist for your sanitation procedures?

ajgraz, the log i mentioned is a checklist of every machine, part, and surface to be cleaned. It includes items such as "saw parts, saw, grinder parts, grinder..." so on and so forth.

Can you get me a good deal on some meat?

Unfortunately not. I think its obvious that they don't give me a whole lot of power around there...

 

[QC]

Re: Moral Dilemma

We're cool with you man, just trying to help boil it down. Any update on the boss and job from this week?

 

[korygrandy]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Sit down with your boss and right down his expectations. Than, in a week, have him do some sort of audit to ensure the quality control is there. Most of all try and keep a decent relationship with your boss...after all, he is the guy that probably hired you and the guy that approves your time off when you want to go float on the boat.

If he ever comes back and says your quality is lacking (opposite of him saying your pace is lacking) you can show him the list of expectations and point out the fact you're meeting them.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Moral Dilemma

[

What you got a line on JB's itchy trigger finger PG??

Ha
Nope, but I do know when it gets ugly, they shut em down.

Just have to say to you all, Bless you all and life is so good try not to let the petty stuff get in the way of your happyness.

Now that I think of it, Whomever is posting on this forum has a line to that finger.

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Holy cow! pun intended LOL Clean everything good or quit! I got "fresh" sliced roast beef in a Grocery store deli one time and spent the next day constantly puking and crapping. Missed a day of work.....Never bought my favorite sandwich meat again. Went back there and blew them out. They had the nerve to act offended and denied it!

 

[scoutboater]

Re: Moral Dilemma

We're cool with you man, just trying to help boil it down. Any update on the boss and job from this week?

Not yet QC. I usually work Wed - Sun, and get Mondays and Tuesdays off. Its nice in the summer when there's no traffic on the lake, but not so great when all my friends are working on my off days. I go back in tonight, so we'll see how that goes.

And for the record, I will be cleaning to my standards. If it comes to it, I'd personally rather be un-employed than risk making people sick.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Moral Dilemma

And for the record, I will be cleaning to my standards. If it comes to it, I'd personally rather be un-employed than risk making people sick.

Hello scoutboater and welcome to Iboats..

I have been watching this thread..and I have to say there is NO "Moral Dilemma" as per sey..

Its a Legal Dilemma..

Lets put it this way..if the FDA requires sanitation of said parts to be cleaned with x% chlorine with y degree of water ..But YOU think x+ is needed..or y-degree..you will be countermandating FDA on your own accord..

That being said..IF your employer is asking you do do something that is Less then FDA...and you Refuse to abide by practices set forth in your job requirements..then you can use the "whistleblower protection act" to secure you and your job.

Here is the rub.. If you cannot perform said job ( documented by you ) in a timely manor required by the employer ( which they have logs of previous employees that can do the job with Standards in a time frame ) that stand up to regulations..you will lose..

IF you can..then you have ground..

YD.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Sorry to have to say it, but this thread is an absolute classic on what is called "Diversion" or "Diverting".
Scoutboater has been given a formal verbal warning for not carrying out his tasks in the time allotted. He is slow.
The company knows "exactly" the time allowed for each task.
Scoutboater knows he is slow, but diverts the issue from 'time' to 'hygiene', but only on this board.
I wonder if he raised it with his boss. Hygiene policy has absolutely nothing to do with him. He is told what is expected of him and what to do. He is not employed to determine policy.
If he does not lift his game and meet company standards he will be 'let go'.
Having staff divert you is a no-no.
Having staff not ammend attitudes after a warning is also a no-no.
I have a woman who is a clasic. She is slow, and diverts me - every time a coconut!
She just can't bring herself to say "OK, not a problem. I will be straight on to it".
She is fortunately pregnant, so her hours have gone from 30 to 8, and in 4 weeks she will no longer be here, and she won't be returning after the birth like she thinks she is.
I just can't afford to keep her.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Sorry to have to say it, but this thread is an absolute classic on what is called "Diversion" or "Diverting".
Scoutboater has been given a formal verbal warning for not carrying out his tasks in the time allotted. He is slow.
The company knows "exactly" the time allowed for each task.
Scoutboater knows he is slow, but diverts the issue from 'time' to 'hygiene', but only on this board.
I wonder if he raised it with his boss. Hygiene policy has absolutely nothing to do with him. He is told what is expected of him and what to do. He is not employed to determine policy.
If he does not lift his game and meet company standards he will be 'let go'.
Having staff divert you is a no-no.
Having staff not ammend attitudes after a warning is also a no-no.
I have a woman who is a clasic. She is slow, and diverts me - every time a coconut!
She just can't bring herself to say "OK, not a problem. I will be straight on to it".
She is fortunately pregnant, so her hours have gone from 30 to 8, and in 4 weeks she will no longer be here, and she won't be returning after the birth like she thinks she is.
I just can't afford to keep her.
Cheers
Phillip

+1 Its not about the job he is doing but how long its taking him.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Haven't seen you lately Kiwi, hope you and yours a safe down there...

 

[Bamby]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Now heres the problem: He pulls me aside the other day and gives me a 'verbal warning' about how long it is taking me to clean. I admit, I could be faster. They have shown me shortcuts on things, such as not taking the band saw all the way apart every night, or leaving certain pieces in the grinder. However, I feel that its my job to clean the room to the point that nobody gets sick, not just to pass inspection. I have tried all of the tricks they showed me, and I've picked up a few small things.

I've read this whole thread and what am I actually missing here . I don't read where the OP is actually lazy myself, I'm reading he holds himself to higher moral standards of his responsibility to do his part in providing a safe product to the consumers and the only way to increase his productivity were to partake in shortcuts shown to him that would compromise food safety.

I'm all behind him and agree with his moral integrity, and we need not less but more of it throughout every industry. The lack of integrity is the real reason overall quality and satisfaction is almost non existent everywhere anymore. I've paid good money to have work performed too many times only to find the work compromised completely by taking the so called shortcuts to cut time, money, and increase productivity.

Where do you actually draw the line....It's to much trouble and time consuming to replace that spark plug, just stick the other seven in and get it out of here the customer will never know the difference...

What about your life are you actually satisfied with the value you actually receive for your money, because some immoral bean counter compromised it completely to increase their bonus check or profits....

You all rock on, but except for maybe the OP I don't think I'd want any of you performing services for me......

 

[jonesg]

Re: Moral Dilemma

I've been working in the food biz for 50 yrs now, the OP will be fired.
When someone is warned and they turn it into a "moral dilemma" they just shouldn't be in a kitchen.
I've been there myself and gotten fired , I was fighting me and taking it out on them.
Looking back I deserved to be fired and would do the same in their place.
I remember telling my drinking buddy about the problems at work, he was laughing and said why don't you just shut the bleep up and do the job.
Got fired a few days later. Got fired from my next 5 jobs.!
The "problems" at work were me.
Opened a business and eventually sobered up.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Holy cow! pun intended LOL Clean everything good or quit! I got "fresh" sliced roast beef in a Grocery store deli one time and spent the next day constantly puking and crapping. Missed a day of work.....Never bought my favorite sandwich meat again. Went back there and blew them out. They had the nerve to act offended and denied it!

Thats a constant problem in mkts doing deli slicing, they are required by fed , state and local regs to sanitize the blade between uses when cutting roast beef.
The problem is the blood gets under the guard and will sour in 3 hrs. They've gone to requiring the beef be cooked to medium well and pack it in red dyed brine but the problem still remains. If theres blood the only proper safe way is to break the slicer down and sanitize but they don't because its not practical.
As long as the public wants to see deli meat sliced "fresh" hahaha, its so full of salt anyway!

The only way to get safe rare roast beef is DIY, roast to 120F.

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: Moral Dilemma

Thats a constant problem in mkts doing deli slicing, they are required by fed , state and local regs to sanitize the blade between uses when cutting roast beef.
The problem is the blood gets under the guard and will sour in 3 hrs. They've gone to requiring the beef be cooked to medium well and pack it in red dyed brine but the problem still remains. If theres blood the only proper safe way is to break the slicer down and sanitize but they don't because its not practical.
As long as the public wants to see deli meat sliced "fresh" hahaha, its so full of salt anyway!

The only way to get safe rare roast beef is DIY, roast to 120F.

Ya thanks for the info. No more deli sliced meats for me. I thought it smelled a bit sour, but that stuff is so expensive. I didn't know for sure since I had just bought it. I never had that problem since. Anybody who has ever been through it before knows what a nightmare food poisoning can be