More comments from American Soldiers

[CJY]

DJ wondered why the other "comments" thread received little action from those opposed to the war. The answer is simple, for me anyway. There is nothing to comment on. WHat do you think, I am suddenly on the wagon and want to send more young people over there? This particular soldier feels that all is well, and I have no problem with that at all. Other iboaters have finally had their own beliefs on the war justified through this soldier. Again, no problem. Whatever it takes to make you feel good.<br /><br />However, not all soldiers feel as optimistic. Many are as against the war. They are in a catch 22 situation. Fight the war as ordered by the Commander in Chief, or go AWOL. Regardless of what anybody says, it's not all lies by the "liberal press."<br /><br />I started this thread because I believe those soldiers against the war deserve equal time.<br /><br /> http://www.duckdaotsu.org/antiwar_soldiers.html <br /><br /> http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/11/10_400.html <br /><br />I have said it before, and will again:<br /><br />At this point, Iraq needs to be left to their own devices. Whether we leave today, or in 10 years, the result will be the same. Civil unrest, until they figure things out for themselves. As of now, they sit back watching Americans die for their freedom. If their freedom is worth having, they will do as our ancestors did. They will fight for it. W has given them the opportunity, and that is all he can do. If they don't earn it through their own blood, it's not going to have the same value to them. Without their own blood, they will certainly be more willing to give it up once threatened upon our departure. We need to get out so we can see what they really wish to fight for! Until then, it's nothing more than conjecture on our part. <br /><br />I have heard so many say, "freedom is not free." Well, right now it is not costing the Iraqies as much as it is the Americans. When will the Iraqies be expected to understand that there is a cost associated with freedom?

 

[DJ]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

Some disgruntled soldiers? <br /><br />AND THIS IS CONSIDERED NEWS? Name a conflict that DIDN'T have a few. These are ALL volunteers. They (soldiers) made a CHOICE.<br /><br />I have yet to speak to one that was disgruntled with the cause. The conditions, YES (it's HOT), the cause-a resounding NO!<br /><br />

At this point, Iraq needs to be left to their own devices. Whether we leave today, or in 10 years, the result will be the same. Civil unrest, until they figure things out for themselves

They would have NEVER had the opportunity, without us. Oh yes, they were JUST FINE and quiet with the torture and heavyhandedness. But they weren't free or happy.<br /><br />History, for those of us that study and believe it, tells that MANY were disgruntled with the American revolution. Frankly, I'm glad the revolutionaries prevailed. Although many today hate this country that gives them the RIGHT to be disgruntled. Try those sentiments under Saddam. There may be a shredder with your name on it.

 

[JB]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

What DJ said, in CAPITALS.

 

[CJY]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

History, for those of us that study and believe it, tells that MANY were disgruntled with the American revolution.

What does this have to do with Iraq? However, if you are using the American Revolution as a parallel.... understood. Let me ask you though, who was shedding the blood for the freedom of America?<br /><br />The answer, AMERICANS! Why do you think each and every one of us holds freedom so precious? How precious will it be to the people of Iraq if they do nothing to get it? <br /><br />

They would have NEVER had the opportunity, without us

DJ, you should have continued reading. You would have read that I agree and W has given them this opportunity. <br /><br />At what point do we leave? When each citizen of Iraq has a white picket fence, 2.45 children, a pet, a well paying job, and a chicken in every pot? Iraq will never look like the US! I have never heard W or anybody else describe what Iraq has to look like before we can leave.<br /><br />The fighting that is taking place in Iraq is being blamed on people from other nations crossing the borders into Iraq to fight freedom. Are you telling me that we will be able to control the borders of Iraq when we can't control our own borders? It will never happen.

 

[AK_Chappy]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

Originally posted by CJY:<br />

The fighting that is taking place in Iraq is being blamed on people from other nations crossing the borders into Iraq to fight freedom. Are you telling me that we will be able to control the borders of Iraq when we can't control our own borders? It will never happen.

No that is not what anyone said. Here is an analogy for you. <br />A child of about 12 years of age is in an oppressive foster family. He is beaten and tortured every day. You find out about this and rescue said child. You feed him for a month, he recovers (physically) from his wounds. To use your timeline it would then be time to leave him alone to survive.<br /><br />The Iraqi government is not well enough established to properly and completely be able to resist the terrorists crossing the borders. If we left today, it would be like throwing the child in the analogy into the streets.<br /><br />AK Chappy

 

[CJY]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

AK, This is what EZ posted regarding the words of an American soldier in Iraq:<br /><br />

Iraq is just under attack by outside interests. The problems are caused by people from other nations coming to Iraq to prevent freedom &a modern society.

Are you saying you believe just part of those words?<br /><br />What did I say, that was never said?<br /><br />With the Iraq borders, as well as their location in the world, I would venture to guess they may never be able to fend for themselves without American intervention. It kind of makes me wonder why Iran has such a high interest in nukes once again.<br /><br />I don't see Iraq and your 12 year old child similar at all. My point is that Iraq needs to take responsibility for their freedom. Here is my analogy for you AK. Let's say I am teaching an Iraq citizen to ride a bike. Every day for 20 years I let them watch me ride the bike. After 20 years, I give them the bike, and they decide losing the skin on their knees is not worth riding the bike. What a waste of time. I could have given them the bike after 1 day to get to the same point I spent 20 years on.

 

[AK_Chappy]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

CJY,<br />I don't think we are just letting them watch us try to help them establish their gov't. Their Air Force has a grand total of 700 people. My squadron is bigger than that and there is no way we could patrol the borders of Iraq effectively. And that is with years of training and the chance to hone our organization. Leaving Iraq right now is like leaving an immature child to fend for themselves. <br />As for the EZ quote,<br />I never said I didn't believe those words. I think Iraq IS under attack from outside their borders. Do I think Iraq is ready to defend itself, no. Do I think we should be the protectors forever, no. Do I think there is a plan to let Iraq take care of themselves, yes. Does the public know the "exit strategy", no not all of it. I think there are reasons for that. Your analogy of the bike is correct. Now would you have given them a drag racing bike from day one and said "have at it." That would be what the enemy would have. We can give them the bicycle to learn to ride on their own, but the enemy will be trying to chase them down on a dragster bike. They would be quickly defeated.<br /><br />AK Chappy

 

[DJ]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

Let me ask you though, who was shedding the blood for the freedom of America?<br />

Of course we were and as I recall, the French helped, believe it or not.<br /><br />

With the Iraq borders, as well as their location in the world, I would venture to guess they may never be able to fend for themselves without American intervention. It kind of makes me wonder why Iran has such a high interest in nukes once again.

You may be right. Look at Isreal. There are people/nations in the middle east that want you and me dead. We have interests there. Keeping the peace by spreading democracy is the best way to keep it.<br /><br />Freedom is NOT free.

 

[QC]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

What DJ said . . . and then said. Oh and what AK said.<br /><br />And then of course what CJY said.<br /><br />

Originally posted by CJY:<br /> W has given them the opportunity

 

[CJY]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

AK, you said:<br /><br /><br />

Their Air Force has a grand total of 700 people. My squadron is bigger than that and there is no way we could patrol the borders of Iraq effectively.

With this statement, you are helping to make my point of the need for the people of Iraq to step up and shed some blood.<br /><br />As of July, 2005(2.7% yearly increase), the population of Iraq was 26,074,906, and you said that 700 of these have stepped up to fight for their freedom. Those 700 soldiers equate to .000026 of one percent of the population willing to fight for their freedom. Pitiful for a country we claim wants to be free. They are not showing any willingness to fight for their own freedom. What are they waiting for? This is their opportunity...right. Until they are left alone, what they are willing to do to be free is nothing more than conjecture on our part.<br /><br />They need to be left alone, and then if they come out to fight for themselves, we give them support. They need to be in front of us though on the front lines and not hiding behind us. If they are not going to be willing to fight for themselves today, then they won't be tomorrow either, and we will be there forever. Is it ok to send US soldiers over there forever. Young men/women will stop enlisting<br /><br /> http://education.yahoo.com/reference/factbook/iz/popula.html

 

[DJ]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

CJY,<br /><br />You are smarter than that-I think.<br /><br />How many police officers do we have as opposed to our (US) population?<br /><br />One can play the numbers game with the uneducated. Not here.<br /><br />Again, I'll say, freedom is NOT free. <br /><br />However, it seems to be hated by those that use it most.<br /><br />BTW, I see you dodged my last post. Don't ask a question and avoid the answer, if it is not to your liking.

 

[CJY]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

DJ, <br /><br />I also thought you were smarter.<br /><br />We have police officers, marines, army, navy, air force, all branches of the reserves, CIA.<br /><br />Total reserve and full time armed forces = 2,575,782<br /><br />US population = 295,734,134<br /><br />Therefore, .87% of the US serve currently.<br />This is 1 of every 114 citizens currently<br /><br /><br />Iraq<br /><br />Total Population 26,074,905<br />700 currently serving in military<br /><br />Therefore, .0026% of Iraqi citizens serve.<br />That is 1 in every 37,249 citizens.<br /><br />I have calculated these numbers not even taking into account the numbers regarding city, county and state law enforcement officers in the US. <br /><br />DJ, you said:<br /><br />

How many police officers do we have as opposed to our (US) population?

Now you are educated. Did you really think that law enforcement officers are the only ones protecting us? Evidently you did not think about this well enough.<br /><br />You don't buy my numbers, get the stats and do the math yourself.<br /><br />DJ, you also said:<br /><br />

However, it seems to be hated by those that use it most.

Why do you make such statements? <br />These types of statements are made by the uninformed. You tried to twist it, but you did not think it out before posting. <br /><br />A huge difference serving between us and them. It's not a numbers "game," these are the numbers which support all that I have stated.<br /><br /> http://web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/military/history/hst0905.pdf <br /><br /> http://www.dod.mil/prhome/poprep2002/chapter5/chapter5.htm <br /><br /> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html

 

[AK_Chappy]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

CJY,<br />That 700 is strictly the Iraqi Air Force. To quote the article was<br /><br />"The Iraqis have about 50 aircraft and some 700 people trained in the air force, among some 180,000 security forces overall, Brig. Gen. Allen G. Peck said in early January. Apart from the training, the United States is supplying the Iraqis with C-130 cargo planes.<br />The near-term focus is training in maintenance, reconnaissance, transport and counterinsurgency tactics, Peck said, but the Iraqis should become capable of defending their own airspace.<br />"It's not a matter of months," Peck said, "but a matter of years." "<br /><br />The last line says exactly the same thing I have been saying. Oh and that is from a Brigadier General. I would be willing to bet he knows a thing or two about airplanes. Extremely few officers make General in the U.S. Air Force that weren't flyers.<br /><br />AK Chappy

 

[CJY]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

AK,<br /><br />Help me to understand AK. When it fits your argument, you discount the actual numbers and go with 700. Once you find out it works against you, you then decide to break out the "real" numbers???<br /><br />You should change your name to "spin doctor". <br /><br />Before something else changes, I think I will pull out of this one. I do however, reserve the right to reenter as seen fit.<br /><br />And you call yourself a Browns fan.

 

[susielikesapples]

Re: More comments from American Soldiers

hey were all gonna die someday.