More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

[SnappingTurtle]

Well it happened again. Nice day, great weather.

On the river by our house, a Grandfather decided to take the Grand Kids out for a boat ride. Wanted to start them young and teach them the joys of boating the family said. He forgot to teach them the safety side of the sport though.

Three kids in the boat and the grandfather, no life jackets. He left them in the car.

Three year old falls overboard and the grandfather goes in after her. Leaves the boat with two small kids alone on a fast flowing river with a bunch of commercial traffic. They were just above the locks, and a small hydro power plant.

Another boater comes along to find the two kids alone in the boat screaming. Transfers one of his friends to the boat to calm the kids, and then searches, finds, and pulls the three year olds body from the water, no response to the CPR. The Grandfather is still missing.

I just don't get it.

 

[rndn]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

It's against the law for kids under a certain age to not wear a PFD, but people still don't follow the rules. Unfortunately the grandfather found the only cure for stupidity. I know it sounds harsh, but it was solely the grandfathers fault for not making sure the kids were safe and wearing PFD's.

People just need to work harder to get the word out and it's sad, but this is not the first and most certainly won't be the last preventable death attributed to not wearing PFD's and stupidity.

 

[mike64]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

I know it sounds harsh, but it was solely the grandfathers fault for not making sure the kids were safe and wearing PFD's.

Why is that harsh? It's simply the truth, the guy was responsible for one grandson dying and endangering the others. I have 2 small children, 5 and 3 years old, and this story makes me angry. I wouldn't think of having my kids on my boat without their life jackets on, law or no law.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

The parents were somewhere on shore waiting, and they knew that the kids got onboard without PFD's. I think such negligence is child abuse.

There is just no excuse. There are even a half dozen companies making PFD's for infants (3-12 months) now a days.

I saw a young pair a couple of weeks ago, and their dog had a Life Vest on, but their young kids didn't. They were seating on the bow of the boat and dad was running about 35MPH.

If I could have gotten to them quick enough, I would have probably got into big trouble.

 

[BMOLCHANY]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

You can't fix stupid.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

I didn't take my son out in the boat at all until he was two. When I started to introduce him to water, the boat, fishing, etc., his PFD went on as soon as I took hm out of the car. He is not allowed to be anywhere near the water without it, much less in the boat. I also will not take him in water that might be (or get) rough from wind or current. To me, he is still too small to deal with that, so he gets his boat rides in calm bayous.

As to why people don't wear them, you'll hear all of the excuses just like you do in regard to seat belts and motorcycle helmets. For those that don't like others telling them what to do, eventually it won't matter because mandatory PFD use will probably start to become common. I think the same is true of boating speed limits and licenses - as there are more and more accidents involving serious injury and death, states will begin to pass laws to curb them. Some will say the laws don't accomplish anything, but they will be passed anyway.

As for the effectiveness of PFD's, I will only say that I participate in SAR activities somewhat frequently and PFD use usually ends up being the deciding factor as to whether SAR stands for search and rescue, rather than search and recovery.

The following photo is of a boat that I was asked to locate and photograph for the USCG. Although I'm sure the Guard knows the full story by now, we didn't know actual circumstances at the time. There was no one on it and we thought it might have been in a collision, because there was obvious damage to the bow rail on the starboard side. I'm posting it just because its sort of an interesting photo, and its a good example of the fact that even big boats can sink pretty easily. For those who are from the SE Louisiana area, I found it on the east side of Alligator Point, SE of Chef Pass.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

I live near a school in Germany and mornings one car after another will pull up to drop the kids off. Only one and ten will have the kids in a Safety Child Seat.

The Police stand there from time to time trying to teach the, for the most part, mothers of these children, the dangers of letting their children bounce around the cars like little monkeys. To no avail.

The government will loan people of low income these seats if the can't afford them, but most of these cars are really expensive European models with built in factory seating for children. They order their cars with this very expensive option (a status symbol) and then are to lazy to use it.

They just can't be bothered, not worth the trouble.

 

[BMOLCHANY]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

You know I have to admire Hawaii. When I lived there in the 1990s the seatbelt law for everyone carried a $1000.00 penalty. THat hurt you enough to get your attention.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

Same here, ST. I see people all day long, every day, riding around with kids who are not even in regular seatbelts, never mind car seats. I see women holding infants in their arms while driving, kids jumping around in the back seat, kids standing in between the front seats, kids in the back of pickup trucks, etc.

I hate traffic tickets as much as anyone else but, I swear, if I were a cop, I would have a field day with these people. I think I would have to get two new ticket books every morning when I came to work!

 

[CATransplant]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

I can't even imagine taking kids on a boat without PFDs being worn, by kids and adults alike. I sometimes fish, in calm conditions, without wearing my PFD, but anytime anyone under the age of 18 is on my boat, everyone on board has them on and zipped or buckled up.

 

[45Auto]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

You'd be better off getting a rubber "Michelin Man" suit and motorcycle helmet and wearing them around all the time. Statistically, you're about 4 times more likely to die from a fall than from drowning .........

(13,342 deaths from falls in the US, 3,842 from drowning)

If it saves just one life .........

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

Interesting stat but I don't think it means much. If the basic goal is to determine whether or not wearing a PFD reduces drowning deaths, how many people fall off of ladders really isn't relevant. A more accurate and meaningful comparison would be to study boat accidents/incidents, where persons ended up in the water for one reason or another. By matching drowning and survival rates with PFD usage, a much more accurate picture of the value of wearing a PFD would be available.

 

[45Auto]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

Interesting stat but I don't think it means much.

It?s a statistic. It means just as much as the statistic that says you have less risk of drowning wearing a PFD. It means just as much as the US Coast Guard statistic that say 5.3 people per 100,000 registered boats will die. It means as much as the US Department of Transportation statistic that says 15 people per 100,000 registered cars will die. It means as much as the US Department of Health and Welfare statistic that says 25 women per 100,000 will die of breast cancer. It means as much as the US Department of Health and Welfare statistic that says 40% of drownings are in pools, 35% are in open water (boating or swimming), and 18% are in bathtubs.

If the basic goal is to determine whether or not wearing a PFD reduces drowning deaths

The basic goal WAS NOT to determine whether PFD?s reduce drowning deaths. Nobody in there right mind would argue that. The basic goal was to point out that ADULTS should make a rational evaluation of the risks they are facing and protect themselves appropriately based on that risk. Do you really think my wife should have her breasts removed because she is 10 times more likely to die from breast cancer than from a boating accident (assuming half the 5.3 per 100,000 boating deaths are female)? (NOTE: if anyone is interested, I realize that she is actually MUCH more than 10 times as likely to die from breast cancer since there are MANY more boaters than registered boats, so the death rate per boating PERSON is much lower than 5.3)

A more accurate and meaningful comparison would be to study boat accidents/incidents, where persons ended up in the water for one reason or another. By matching drowning and survival rates with PFD usage, a much more accurate picture of the value of wearing a PFD would be available.

A ?more accurate and meaningful comparison? of the value of wearing a PFD to reduce your risk of death would be to compare the risk of ALL your activities in relation to boating and make your decision rationally. I can make myself and my passengers MUCH safer by simply not drinking on the water than I can by requiring all adults to wear life jackets at all times.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

It’s a statistic. It means just as much as the statistic that says you have less risk of drowning wearing a PFD. It means just as much as the US Coast Guard statistic that say 5.3 people per 100,000 registered boats will die. It means as much as the US Department of Transportation statistic that says 15 people per 100,000 registered cars will die. It means as much as the US Department of Health and Welfare statistic that says 25 women per 100,000 will die of breast cancer. It means as much as the US Department of Health and Welfare statistic that says 40% of drownings are in pools, 35% are in open water (boating or swimming), and 18% are in bathtubs.

The basic goal WAS NOT to determine whether PFD’s reduce drowning deaths. Nobody in there right mind would argue that. The basic goal was to point out that ADULTS should make a rational evaluation of the risks they are facing and protect themselves appropriately based on that risk. Do you really think my wife should have her breasts removed because she is 10 times more likely to die from breast cancer than from a boating accident (assuming half the 5.3 per 100,000 boating deaths are female)? (NOTE: if anyone is interested, I realize that she is actually MUCH more than 10 times as likely to die from breast cancer since there are MANY more boaters than registered boats, so the death rate per boating PERSON is much lower than 5.3)

A “more accurate and meaningful comparison” of the value of wearing a PFD to reduce your risk of death would be to compare the risk of ALL your activities in relation to boating and make your decision rationally. I can make myself and my passengers MUCH safer by simply not drinking on the water than I can by requiring all adults to wear life jackets at all times.

What happened to this thread?

No one said anything about making all adults wear life jackets, at all times. Where did this come from?

No one said anything about alcohol being involved. Did I miss something?

The little girl was three years old, she had no choice, and if she had, she was to young to make one. Her siblings were 5 & 6 (I think the news said), also too young to make rational decisions.

The grand father was the only adult on the boat, and it was a very small boat on a commercial water way. No one had life jackets. Two are dead, would they be alive if they had had PFD's on, maybe.

If your underage, and want to come on my boat, you put on a PFD, or you can seat yourself on the shore alone, and watch us have fun. If you are of legal age, I supply one for you, you are old enough to decide if you need it or not.

If you choose not to require your kids to wear them that is up to you, they are yours, not mine. If they drown because of not having a PFD on, I will morn the loss of an innocent child who died a senseless death, but I will have no sympathy for you.

The fact that the same type of accidents happens every weekend here, or that no one on the boat could swim, I guess is beside the point statistically speaking.

Statistically speaking I have a better chance of surviving if I shot myself in the foot, than I would if I shot myself in the head, and?

More people die every year while riding horses, than while drag racing.

So what do we do, reduce the safety standards in one sport to the point that the death statistics are equal in all sports?

I think some people just like to argue.

GEEZ!

 

[45Auto]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

No one said anything about making all adults wear life jackets, at all times. Where did this come from?

Please read post #6 above (in this thread):

Quote from post #6:

For those that don't like others telling them what to do, eventually it won't matter because mandatory PFD use will probably start to become common

No problem with your posts, Snapping Turtle. I fully agree with you and do just as you said:

If you are of legal age, I supply one for you, you are old enough to decide if you need it or not.

The attitude of the previous quote from post #6 is what inspired my post about the relative safety of boating. Boating is a very safe activity despite the stupidity of a minority of the participants. If people were really serious about reducing boating fatalities rather than ?feel good? fixes they would concentrate their efforts where they will do the most good. As far as I know ALL states already require children to wear PFDs.

I also mourn the loss of innocent children who were too young to make an intelligent choice (that?s why the laws are there, to protect them). But passing more laws requiring arbitrary actions by me whether they are appropriate to the situation or not (mandatory adult PFDs) is not going to stop the stupidity of people like the grandfather in this situation.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

Please read post #6 above (in this thread):

Quote from post #6:


No problem with your posts, Snapping Turtle. I fully agree with you and do just as you said:

The attitude of the previous quote from post #6 is what inspired my post about the relative safety of boating. Boating is a very safe activity despite the stupidity of a minority of the participants. If people were really serious about reducing boating fatalities rather than “feel good” fixes they would concentrate their efforts where they will do the most good. As far as I know ALL states already require children to wear PFDs.

I also mourn the loss of innocent children who were too young to make an intelligent choice (that’s why the laws are there, to protect them). But passing more laws requiring arbitrary actions by me whether they are appropriate to the situation or not (mandatory adult PFDs) is not going to stop the stupidity of people like the grandfather in this situation.

Sorry, I kind of lost track of what was being said here 45Auto.

I just didn't want this to breakout in another Alcohol vs Anti-Alcohol thread.

I am not for more laws covering areas where we already have them in place. I wear my PFD sometimes, sometimes not, but it is always in reach.

If the weather is bad I put it on. If the waters are crowded, and the boaters are getting a little wild, I put it on. I can't control the weather or the actions of the other boaters. I can only control mine, my reflex reaction when around dangerous people is to leave the area, or take precautions, the PFD is just one of the precautions.

If I have non swimmers or non boaters on board I always wear it. I try to be a good example.

I had to wear them as a kid and I hated them, but not as much as I hated being left on the dock.

 

[45Auto]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

We're on the same page. I agree with your above post 100%, that's exactly what I do also.

It's been my experience that if people don't actively make their views known on issues such as mandatory PFDs for adults then the "do-gooders" roll right along passing laws telling me what's best for me.

 

[ekinnee]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

I live near a school in Germany and mornings one car after another will pull up to drop the kids off. Only one and ten will have the kids in a Safety Child Seat.

The Police stand there from time to time trying to teach the, for the most part, mothers of these children, the dangers of letting their children bounce around the cars like little monkeys. To no avail.

The government will loan people of low income these seats if the can't afford them, but most of these cars are really expensive European models with built in factory seating for children. They order their cars with this very expensive option (a status symbol) and then are to lazy to use it.

They just can't be bothered, not worth the trouble.

Here in the States you can get a free car seat if you need one. Many of the local Hospitals will give them away.

My "favorite" thing to see is the kid standing on the rear floorboard hump holding on to the head rests of the front seats. You know that child is a projectile just waiting to take off.

As for a PFD, it amazes me that you can pick one up at the local sporting goods store for $4.99. Yet people don't do it.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

Over a period of time, I have accumulated PFDs in every size from the smallest available to an XXL one. Every time I'm at a garage sale where someone's selling one, I buy it if it's a size I don't have or it's a nicer one than the one I have in that size.

These days, all of mine are comfortable vest-style units. It's taken a long time, but I don't need the orange ones any more. I throw the old ones in when I sell a boat. Normally, $5 is the price around here for any PFD at a garage sale.

 

[S.McGee]

Re: More deaths here! PFD'S, why won't people wear them?

I have a 10 year old brother who loves to fish. I would never take him in the boat without a PFD I couldn't amagine going home and telling my folks that my brother died because I was to stupid to make him put one on. Even when he is near the dock I make him wear it, he doesn't really like it, but I dont care it a rule in my boat. 17 and under (or not a good swimmer) PFD or no boat