Motor dies when put in gear

[89Force85hp]

I recently purchased an 89 Bayliner with an 89 Force 85hp (856X9E) that underwent a "tune-up" at a marina two days before I purchased it. The paperwork from the marina indicated all three cylinders had good compression each around 150. I've taken the boat out twice and had a couple issues each time that bother me and I'm not sure where to start troubleshooting.

On the first trip, the engine was extremely difficult to get started the first time. Subsequent times during the day of running around were much easier. The motor ran fairly smooth as well. I did seem to find a spot during accelleration where the engine would kind of stumble a bit, but going just past brought it back. During the evening, we did some tubing. All going fine until someone fell off and it was time to kill the motor. Upon restarting, as soon as you dropped it into gear, it would die. Restart and let it idle for a minute, and drop it into gear and it would try to die, but give it a little gas and it's okay. Then when the tuber fell off again, it would go through the same thing.

On the second trip, the starting issue wasn't nearly as bad. I made sure that when squeezing the priming bulb that I almost over did it, nearly to the point I thought it would be flooded, but it wasn't. Later in the afternoon, I experienced the same issues with restarting the motor. Additionally, after restarting, I would feel a vibration and the power would not come up until I pumped the gas a little by backing off till it smoothed out and gradually increasing until I was up to speed and planed out.

At this point, I don't know where to start, fuel or electical, or both? Any experts on these 2-cycles have any advice? Thanks!

 

[bassmaster29]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

I feel your pain! I have a 90' Bayliner Cobra with a 150 Force. Mine starts fine when cold. But after running around fishing hole to fishing hole, I get the same problem, almost. Mine will not start at all, hardly, and if I do it is just from the priming I do. I have had to troll back to the docks 2 times now. The only thing that is the same both times it has done this (only had it out 5-6 times) is that I put gas in both times. I did take it to a shop and they replaced the bleeder bulb. but, I guess it did not work. Let me know if you find out something

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

First off. Did they tell you about fast idle position for cold starting? You need to either pull out the control handle or push in the center rubber covered button and advance the throttle till it stops. This advances the timing a few degrees and opens the carbs slightly. It also locks out the shift at the same time.

Now for stalling in gear: Idle speed (if you have a tach) should be about 700-750 in forward gear in the water. The adjusting screw is on the tower shaft behind the lower carb. Loosen the lock nut and screw it in about 1/4 to 1/2 turn until idle is up where it belongs. All the problems you describe (except for hard cold starting) can be attributed to a too low idle speed. If you do not have a tach, get one. They come in very handy

The three cylinder engines don't have as much torque as the four cyl. engines and if you are using a 19 pitch prop it loads down the engine at idle. If this is the case, you may need to go a smidge higher on the idle speed. to get a reliable idle. And yeah, some of those engines have a rough spot around 2,000-2500 rpm if you throttle up slowly. a quick throttle up or hole shot should not show this because the engine passes through this range too quickly

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

Now time for an obvious question that you hopefully already know: Were you told that you need to push in on the key while cold starting to engage the choke?

Good Luck!

 

[89Force85hp]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

Thanks for the replys, I am aware of the choke activation through the ignition switch, and have used that during cold starting. Also, I have tried using the control lever pulled out (neutral) pushed all the way forward to open the carbs up. I found that the engine takes Champion UL18V or NGK 2522 spark plugs. I also found out that the Champion plugs are Premium class and are listed as "Racing Plugs" while the NGK's are Standard class plugs. There are Champions in the motor right now. Does anyone think these plugs are okay or should I go for as set of NGK's?

A tach was installed in the dash (it's a factory unit from US Marine) but the guy never had time to hook it up. There is no wiring harness, but with direction, I could probably hook it up myself. Going off the same principals as an automotive application for connecting the signal cable to the coil, where do I connect this wire on the electrical side of the outboard motor. There is still a wiring diagram sticker on the motor (thank god), so that's going to be a big help. Can anyone describe what lug I should connect this lead to?

How about recommendations for gas and octane ratings? First time out I used regular unleaded (about 87 octane) with the 50:1 ratio of TCW3. Read somewhere that 87 was too low for these motors. Second time out, I put in mid-grade gas (about 89 octane), again with the 50:1 ratio of oil. Didn't really notice any difference myself, but it did seem to start easier the second time out.

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

Tach Wiring, I have the same year motor & horsepower. There should be a Purple signal wire under the dash, since it sounds like this isn't the case, using the wiring diagram, your motor should be prewired for a tach All you need to do is connect the dash mounted tach (signal terminal) to the tach terminal on the motor.
On my Force, I had to replace the wire connecting the tach to the tach terminal on the motor, so my suggestion is to do so with a purple wire. If I remember correctly, the wiring diagram states that this wire color should either be purple or light gray (don't quote me on the light gray).

 

[89Force85hp]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

Okay, about the tach, I found the purple wire, and it does lead up to the dash. In addition there are two wires, one blue, one green, both with a white stripe, that also run with these and end loose near the block under the cowl. There is a Positive lead and a Ground there on the bottom of the block at the motor. Is this positive lead always hot or only when the key is on? Also, on the back of the tach, there is a rotary switch with settings 1 through 4. On the side there is a sticker that says to place this switch in the position that matches how many poles you have on your motor. It is currently in position 4 for 20 poles, and I can't read what positions 1 and 2 should be as far as poles, 3 shows 12. What position should this be in for my motor?

Any opinions on plugs and gas?

Thanks!

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

Your stator has 20 poles.

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

I believe that the blue and green wires with a white strip are for power trim and tilt. I don't have this feature, so my wires end shortly after they begin. Your tach is a 20-pole tach, so that setting is correctly. As long as you make sure that your purple signal wire is connected to the signal terminal on the motor and the signal terminal on the tach, you should be okay. The next step would be to make sure you power the tach.
To power the tach, you should run a wire from the ignition switch to the positive terminal on the tach, then run a ground wire to either the fuse plate or someother ground. After all that work, your tach should be working, if not, you have a short somewhere in your wiring.

 

[89Force85hp]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

Thanks Matt! Considering that the purple, green/white, and blue/white wires must be conforming to some "standard" may I assume all the other wiring under the dash is correct in color? That being said, of all the wires coming from the ignition switch, which color wire would I be looking for to tap into for the "ignition" side of the tach that is only hot when the engine is running? I should be fine finding a decent ground, and I planned to piggy back off the Speedo for the illumination circuit.

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

your ignition power source should be easy to find, just use a 12 volt test light. With the key in the off position check each pole on the back of the switch and see which has power and which does not. The ones that don't are the ones that are of interest to you. Turn the key on and check the ones that didn't have power in the off position and find one that is now powered up in the on position. Bingo! you found your wire. Remember though, key in on position not start position.

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

Nate's post is right on. I know when I was installing my tach, I pulled the ignition switch out, turned it to the on position and checked each position for power. Then I simply attached the wire to a powered position and ran it directly to the tach.
My problem is that I can't seem to get the wires to stay in their wire connectors. My grounding tach wire is connected to the ground at the fuse panel, and I've replaced the flat connect three times, I guess I should probably solder it. Oh well.

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

hgmatt, when I have that problem with flat spade connectors, I will take a pair of needle nose and squeeze the female connector in on itself a little bit to make it fit tighter over the male spade. Just a thought in case you haven't already tried that

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Motor dies when put in gear

My problem isn't that the male spade connector slips from the female, its the wire slipping from the female connector. I use a wire stripper with connector closer to crimp the connector to the wire. I just assumed that the vibration of the boat was too much for the connector, and I either needed to glue them together or solder it. Thanks