Motor wouldn't start, then the starter wouldn't turn off

NicholasP

Seaman
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
59
I replaced the solenoid and now it's not starting at all. I can hear a click when I turn it over. I'm thinking I need to get the starter rebuilt? Any thoughts? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Nick
 

gm280

Supreme Mariner
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Jun 26, 2011
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14,605
Sure sounds like the starter solenoid was stuck. And since you now replace it and know for certain you wired it back correctly and have the proper type, then yes it is time to have the starter itself checked out. Did you just buy a new solenoid or get the replacement part numbered one? There are so many solenoids that "look" the same but internally wired differently that you have to get the proper type for it to work. If you did buy the exact numbered replacement then remove the starter and have it tested before buying another one. And make certain the battery is fully charged. JMHO!
 

StarTed

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 14, 2015
Messages
694
It sounds like your starter used to turn before replacing the solenoid. Check the starter side of the solenoid for power when trying to start. Maybe you have the wrong solenoid or a bad new one. I had a new rebuilt solenoid stick on once. That got me frantically trying to disconnect the battery.

Then pull the starter and have it checked.
 

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
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The solenoid has a control circuit and a high current set of contacts. If you installed the solenoid and nothing happened till you hit the key and you either heard a clicking noise come from it, or your starter started to spin, the control circuit will also de-energize when you switch to the OFF position. So don't be chasing that fox.

The high current loop is a pair of ⅜" studs with large flanges on the interior ends. A large copper disc is connected to a spring loaded shaft that goes down through the control coil. Switching the control to the START position energizes the control coil which sucks the rod down inside it causing the big copper disc to connect between the studs, making a high current connection capable of a couple hundred amps or so. When the coil voltage is removed....you release the key and it goes back to the ON position from START, the coil de-energizes and the spring forces (is supposed to force) the plate to separate from the two studs and stop the high current. That's how the solenoid works.

If you have a new solenoid of a different type, any differences will be in the control circuitry, not in the high current portion. The changes will consist of how the coil is wired. Usually you have 2 options:

There are 2 isolated small terminals on the side of the thing and 12v and ground are applied across these terminals when starting. There is NO electrical connection between these terminals and the metal/plastic housing.

Some installations in all sorts of other things, have only one small terminal and the case is in electrical contact with the battery (usually - terminal) through a mechanical means. This type only requires one wire with 12 v when desiring to start the engine.

On well used solenoids, the high current contacts develop pits over time from the arc that occurs when you open the contacts when you are through operating the starter. These pits cause a reduction in the surface area of the circuit and cause excessive heat which in time will be adequate to weld the contacts together meaning that the spring will not be stout enough to open the contacts when you switch out of the START position and will continue to power the starter. If you have this problem with a new solenoid, regardless of the type, brand, what have you, you have a malfunction and need to get your money back for a defective unit.

In short, if you can turn the new solenoid on, you can turn it off unless there is a malfunction in the high current part of it and that is a defective unit, not a properly designed solenoid.

For your NEW solenoid powered starter to continue spinning when you let off the key says the solenoid is still getting drive power which means you shorted something out in the replacement....mis-wired something. Unless the starter is dead shorted and your system has the capability to supply something like 500 amps or so to the shorted starter which could weld the solenoid contacts shut, the starter can't hurt the new solenoid that quickly.

HTH,
Mark
 

StarTed

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 14, 2015
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694
Texasmark,

You are spot on with your above statements. I've cut apart solenoids and that is exactly how they work. sometimes the solenoid will also drive the starter drive into the flywheel teeth during its closing operation and pull them back out when it opens.

An easy check is to check the voltage at the starter side of the solenoid when turning the key to the start position to confirm its closure if that terminal is available to check with a voltmeter. One can also check the switch controlled side of the solenoid (small terminal) for proper voltage when turning on the key to the start position. That should get 12V to ground when energized. It is possible to build something different but I've never seen it done that way.

If you don't get the control voltage then start at the switch and work your way to the starter.
 

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
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Texasmark,

You are spot on with your above statements. I've cut apart solenoids and that is exactly how they work. sometimes the solenoid will also drive the starter drive into the flywheel teeth during its closing operation and pull them back out when it opens.

An easy check is to check the voltage at the starter side of the solenoid when turning the key to the start position to confirm its closure if that terminal is available to check with a voltmeter. One can also check the switch controlled side of the solenoid (small terminal) for proper voltage when turning on the key to the start position. That should get 12V to ground when energized. It is possible to build something different but I've never seen it done that way.

If you don't get the control voltage then start at the switch and work your way to the starter.

I didn't add what you said because of what he said he had observed and had already accomplished. Felt it wasn't necessary. He had his answer. But I agree with what you said categorically and make voltage measurements when prudent.
 

quicktach

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Aug 24, 2012
Messages
394
Started could be jamming up. Check your battery and make sure you've got good connections too.
 

NicholasP

Seaman
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Jul 28, 2012
Messages
59
So I took the starter in and he put it on his testing machine and it turned on immediately. Of course he wanted to check it out anyways and ended up replacing the brushes (I think that's what he said). So I put it back on the engine and I'm in the same spot I was before. I can hear the solenoid clicking but it's not engaging the starter. At this point I have a new solenoid and a new starter....I believe I ordered the exact same solenoid and it *looks* exactly the same, for whatever that's worth. Maybe I installed the solenoid wrong, but I really think I installed it exactly as I pulled it off (I took a picture, though it was pretty blurry). I charged the battery (it was mostly full anyways), so now I'm going to really clean the terminals and hope that fixes it. I didn't really follow all of what TexasMark had to say, I'm going to have to slow down and read that a few times....

This is the solenoid I purchased:

http:/ /www . boats . net / parts / search / Merc/Mercury / 2003/1050412AD/ELECTRICAL%20COMPONENTS/parts.html
 
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Texasmark

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If you heard it click on and did it several times and heard it click each time you turned it on, you wired the solenoid control circuitry accurately. The rest is simple. You get a wire from the battery on the input ⅜" stud and the ⅜" stud on the other side of the solenoid goes to the starter input power ⅜" stud. Ala.....got her wired correctly.

Time to get out a volt measuring device. Nothing fancy. Harbor Freight sells a super little digital multimeter for $5. Home Depot or Lowes probably sells one too or an auto parts store like Autozone. If you don't know how to use it read the directions supplied. When finished, put the function selector....big knob in the center on DC volts 20v range. Plug the red lead into the + terminal hole on the meter and put the black lead in the - terminal hole.

Put the red lead on the starter 12v input stud and the black on an unpainted part of the engine block. Spin the starter and read the voltage. You should have 10-12v on that stud. If not, go back to the output stud of the solenoid...same there. If not, go to the other side of the solenoid and read that....should have it there. If not you have a cabling problem between the battery and the engine.

Some starters have composite housings meaning they don't conduct electricity. With an aluminum housing the housing completes the circuit to ground....the engine block where the battery - black wire is connected. If you have a composite housing, the starter has a metallic mounting clamp band with a terminal attached. A black jumper wire is connected to that terminal and connects back to the engine block or occupies the same screw that the battery - black wire uses. If you don't have that return path, you can put 12v on the input power stud but nothing will happen because the current loop to the battery is not closed.
 

tikki

Cadet
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
24
image_235834.jpg I had same problem starter would turn over. but sometimes i just hear the CLICK noise. and it wont crank.
I took out the starter motor. it is a easy job. and remove the rubber boot on the top of the starter. and then you would probably see to bolts (4). remove these and you could just take out guts inside (3,6). in the bottom of the starter there should be 4 Bushes (7). 2 of these had bad connection. so i had to replace them. now the starter works just fine.
 
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NicholasP

Seaman
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
59
So I used a wire brush to really shine up all the connections. After doing this is turned over the very first time. I should've started with that, ugh! I am glad that I posted here because all of the responses were really informative. I may give replacing the starter motor brushes a shot next time it fails, looks pretty straight forward! Again, thanks for all the responses here, I really appreciate it.

Thanks
Nick
 
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