My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

waterinthefuel

Commander
Joined
Nov 15, 2003
Messages
2,728
Read this article, it's about LEAP tests here in Louisiana, which stands for Louisiana Educational Assessment Program. It's a standardized test that all children in 4th and 8th grade must take in order to advance to the next grade level. Apparently 28000 kids didn't pass, so the parents are fuming.

I had to take them in 4th and 8th, and I passed both times.

Here's an idea.....instead of standing on the corner holding a sign, how about spending time helping your kid pass the test?

Oh yea, please note the color of the people protesting. I didn't know a standardized test was racist.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/8790352.html?showAll=y&c=y
 

RCSConstruction

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
549
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

Is it REALLY the parents fault?
Americans work/commuting takes up 10-12 hours a day. (in my area anyway) Both parents work now days. I know in my house the family doesn't have more than 3 hours together and that's after working and dealing with your responsibilities (chores,shopping,appointments,etcc), etccc..
People now days have been programmed to work,work,drink something HEAVILY caffeinated,work,work,drink a energy drink,work,work some more. Go home drink alcohol,drugs,pills to get back down and then do it all over gain and again and again....
I pay a hefty tax to live where I do and count on the programs my taxes fund. I expect a first rate teacher to teach my kids the "core" and I will polish them up myself. My daughter's teacher last year was a 1st year teacher that didn't even know if her job was going to be around the next year. Where are the 20yr experienced teachers like i had when I was a kid?
I hold the state accountable for the lack of qualified teachers and not giving the teachers the money they need. The just keep cutting the budget...hell the even run skeleton crew landscape/maintenance/janitorial services.
They need to quit screwing with the school budgets.
 

jbjennings

Captain
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
3,903
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

I'm an 8th grade science teacher at one of the highest scoring middle schools in the state of LA (Herndon Magnet School). It is a shame that people think that a test can be racist. I have sometimes, although rarely, been told by a parent that their child wasn't passing my class because I was a racist. After explaining how they received their grade and that their child took the same tests and had the same requirements as everyone else, they understood. I have also taught at a high school where probably at least 90% of the students I taught were "minority" students but all were required to have certain test scores to get into the program in which I taught. The vast majority of those students had parents which expected them to study, valued education, and wanted their children to be challenged. It was obvious why they had such high scores on standardized tests--they had prepared themselves! Many of them are now doctors, nurses, and one went to West Point and were so much fun to teach I looked forward to seeing them every single day (The program was medical prep) From my experience of 13 years as a teacher, I can probably count on 2 hands the children who have failed the LEAP test. Almost invariably but with some exceptions, the students who failed the LEAP rarely paid attention in class, failed to participate, and did not study for classroom tests. No type of instruction--hands on, individual help, peer tutoring by their friends, visual instruction, or otherwise seemed to help or motivate them to help themselves. They chose not to prepare for the next grade. I'm sure this is what you probably expected. There are some, however, that simply aren't mentally capable of passing the test but these are very few. It is a shame that these kids have to suffer and not go forward with their friends because of no fault of their own. As for the others, they needed to stay in their grade; they would have been unsuccessful in higher classes because they were unprepared. I believe we can trace 99% of our problems in schools and society back to parents who don't know how, don't have the time, or are unwilling to help prepare their kids by TEACHING them basic manners, respect for others, good work ethics, etc. Then when they fail to pass a test, get fired from their jobs, lose good friends, or simply choose the wrong friends, these folks wonder what went wrong or place blame on others, even placing blame on things like standardized tests. I am thankful that there are some good teachers that can pick up some of the slack and help children learn what they need to succeed. I'm amazed at the difference I see in children that are ill-prepared for just about anything after they are exposed to the positive influence of "good" kids and "good" teachers for just a year or two. However, the pressure placed on teachers by parents today to make sure their children have good grades regardless of what they learn is getting almost too much to bear. I often wonder what will happen to change this around--something's gotta give sooner or later. Thanks for the interesting article--I hadn't seen it---and letting me rant! JBJennings
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

They started that carp when i was still in school in Florida (60's/70's).


"It takes a village". eh, hillary?
 

ricksrster

Commander
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
2,022
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

Is it REALLY the parents fault?
Americans work/commuting takes up 10-12 hours a day. (in my area anyway) Both parents work now days. I know in my house the family doesn't have more than 3 hours together and that's after working and dealing with your responsibilities (chores,shopping,appointments,etcc), etccc..
People now days have been programmed to work,work,drink something HEAVILY caffeinated,work,work,drink a energy drink,work,work some more. Go home drink alcohol,drugs,pills to get back down and then do it all over gain and again and again....
I pay a hefty tax to live where I do and count on the programs my taxes fund. I expect a first rate teacher to teach my kids the "core" and I will polish them up myself. My daughter's teacher last year was a 1st year teacher that didn't even know if her job was going to be around the next year. Where are the 20yr experienced teachers like i had when I was a kid?
I hold the state accountable for the lack of qualified teachers and not giving the teachers the money they need. The just keep cutting the budget...hell the even run skeleton crew landscape/maintenance/janitorial services.
They need to quit screwing with the school budgets.
In order to have a teacher with 20 years experience the teacher has to start at year one.
Parenting is a big responsibility and is very time consuming. Children need a lot of guidance, support, and encouragement at home ,too.
If people don't have the time for their children they shouldn't have children. Parents are responsible for how a child develops. Trusting your child's rearing to strangers is not parenting.
Check out the streets in Any City, USA and see what the kids sre up to when the parents aren't around.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

Please, anyone who finds this unusual, raise your hand. Just another way of digging for more money and blaming others for their own failure.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

Well, this is very close to my territory and includes arguments on both sides I have heard many times.

Standardized tests that measure exactly what they are intended to measure and only what they are intended to measure are very, very difficult to write. It is nearly impossible to write a test for 4th or 8th graders that accurately measures academic achievement without, at the same time, measuring cultural characteristics and values.

There is too little information here to even guess whether the LEAP tests measure too much cultural characteristics and too little academic achievement. jbjennings' post suggests that LEAP measures what is taught at Herndon Magnet School and that Herndon successfully teaches what LEAP measures. jb doesn't tell us what criteria students must meet to get into Herndon. We can only guess what LEAP may measure that Herndon students' parents supplied.

I have had a Tech College student threaten to sue me because he "did what was required" but failed to pass my course. When asked to specify what "was required" he said he showed up for class every day (true).

There is no clear answer to the problem LA has with so many students failing LEAP. Part of it has to be that too many parents have unrealistic expectations of the school system, and part of it has to be that the state has unrealistic expectations of the community and of some parents.
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

There is no clear answer to the problem LA has with so many students failing LEAP. Part of it has to be that too many parents have unrealistic expectations of the school system, and part of it has to be that the state has unrealistic expectations of the community and of some parents.

I was going along with the whole big JB quoting little jb... and I was diggin' yer vibes man! But then you lost me when you blamed the school. If someones kids aren't doing well in school, it's the parents fault. Howelse can you explain all the kids that did pass?

If a parent is too busy working to have time for their kids then either: they shouldn't have had kids or they should move somewhere less expensive so they can work less and have more time for their kids. A childs success is one hundred percent the responsibility of the parent and no one else.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

A childs success is one hundred percent the responsibility of the parent and no one else.

Inclusive of the kid, it is the parents' responsibilty and always will be as long as hillary dont get elected.
 

sun_runner235

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
176
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

A childs success is one hundred percent the responsibility of the parent and no one else.

This is 100% true. I have had two children have difficulty in their first two years of school. There are several reasons why this is, but the biggest problem was a poorly administrated school, and displine not being applied in the classroom. Granted I explained to my kids that I don't care what goes on with ANYONE else in school except them, and that there is no excuse for them not to be doing what the were supposed to. (this took a lot of "coaching") At the same time I "straightening" their focus, my wife and I were up at the school with the teachers and in the principles office explaining where the school was lacking in performance and offering to help in anyway we could to correct the issues. You can't expect children and your schools to succeed when you don't comment on performance, and then follow it up with your own actions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

I can say that i DID move because the first school distric were we could afford a home was **** poor

NOTHING i could do was going to change the fact that 1/3 or more of the children in that school had parents that could not care or did not care about there children

It showed in every PTA and School function who never showed up

This drags and entire school down to the lowest common denominator they have to work with

We were VERY lucky we could afford to move to a better school distric NOT everyone can do that


Tommays
 

rwise

Captain
Joined
Jul 5, 2001
Messages
3,205
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

Learning starts at home!

Many *teachers* are nothing more than baby sitters, and yes I know there are good teachers that really care and to those 2 thumbs up!
 

bjcsc

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
1,805
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

It could be worse. The public school system here is a joke. As a state, our public school system doesn't even graduate 50% of the students from high school. Recently, the Charleston County Superintendent left her $175,000/yr job here and was hired by Seattle, WA making $235,000. Hmmm...do your job at less than 50% and advance...

Although every other year we do have a celebration when we jump to 49th ahead of Mississippi...
 

rogerwa

Commander
Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,339
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

My kids go to a private school and always have. This school has consistently higher test scores than the surrounding district and places very high statewide. I can also tell you that the teachers are paid less than that of the surrounding district. Why are they more successful?? Parental involvement - people who chose to send their kids and make the sacrifice also tend to be more involved. there is also a much closer relationship between the teacher/student/ and parent. Working together.. The teachers, while making much less than their Union organized public school counterparts, teach for the love of teaching and are part of something bigger. This is not to say their are not committed teachers that love teaching on the public side.

Before I get flamed, I know there are a lot of loving involved parents who send their kids to public schools. I am talking more about the percentage in one environment Vs the other.

I also believe that the unionization of teachers has some bad side effects. Once you have a bad teacher gain tenure, forget about it. they need to die first before you can get that teaching spot back. I believe that the public schools need to pay for performance, not tenure. The good teachers should have no problem wiht that. This does not mean stictly performance on standardized tests, this means something similar to the performance management process they have in corporations.

Just my .02.
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

quote roger "I also believe that the unionization of teachers has some bad side effects. Once you have a bad teacher gain tenure, forget about it. they need to die first before you can get that teaching spot back. I believe that the public schools need to pay for performance, not tenure. The good teachers should have no problem wiht that. This does not mean stictly performance on standardized tests, this means something similar to the performance management process they have in corporations." end quote

I absolutely agree with performance pay for teachers. I work in the education system and there are some real good teachers that do care, but there are also some that just don't care.

But I also believe that the responsibility rests on the parents. The kids need some type of discipline (not spanking type) so that if the parents aren't home, they do the school work on their own.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

Well, I wrote and taught a course in testing. We spent one whole day in how to eliminate cultural and ethnic traps from written tests. Believe me, there can be many.

If the schools expect poor working parents to teach their children how to pass a test that favors middle class culture that is, in my mind, unrealistic.

If parents expect the school system to tailor a test to fit the students rather than the state requirements, that is unrealistic.

One of my few disagreements with my President is the name of his education improvement plan, "No student left behind". I would prefer "No student held back". The easiest way not to leave a student behind is to hold the rest back to the pace of the slowest.

I had the very good luck to be in a school system (NC in the 40s) that allowed . . .no, required. . .all students to achieve at a pace that challenged them. I finished High School in 11 years, it took my half brother 14. He was the lucky one because he hit the street with the same education I did and was never "left behind", and I was never held back.

Anyone who points a finger of blame at any one part of the system is grossly oversimplifying the problem.

I say that the blame lies at GWB's attempt to repair the damage done by the liberalization of our national values.
 

jbjennings

Captain
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
3,903
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

I'm in agreement. One's background or culture plays a huge role in success on tests and everything else. It sure is a pleasure to see those who have background experiences that I believe contribute to self-destructive behavior gain new experience and change their way of thinking and change their lives for the better. The liberal ideas that led to drastic changes in schools of the 60's and 70's have had disastrous effects that may never be repaired. I am a so-called conservative republican but can't stomach any of the decisions GW's or some of the other repub. have made or allowed to happen since being president about education or otherwise. Creating a whole new branch of government, battles that everyone new could not be won overseas, making political statements about candidates less that a month or whatever before an election illegal, etc. By the way, it now takes 20 dollars to fill up my 6 gal. outboard motor tank with gas, haliburton, exxon, etc. are posting incredible profits they are admitting to-- all after GW and shotgun Chaney gained power. I was proud of the Ashcroft appointment to attorney general but for some reason he couldn't stay. I only hope we don't get the wicked witch of the Northeast this time! sorry, politics crept in and I should know better-- ignore statements above--if you can. Our education system needs vast improvement. If things would change in the right direction, we wouldn't need to pay teachers more in order to attract the best people, teaching would be a more attractive profession 'cause it's so much darned fun! Good teachers can make a huge difference with any student as we all know. By the way, I have to admit that students in my class all have scored at least the 50th %tile on at least the Math or English portions of standardized tests to get into my school. I like to think they leave it scoring higher. All in all, however, I thinks requiring students to pass the LEAP test is a good thing.
Just my humble and possibly incorrect opinion.
 

rogerwa

Commander
Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,339
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

I'm just curious and not criticizing, but what is an example of a cultural or ethnic trap? From my simplistic view, mathematics and science should be unbiased in these respects. Is it the language portions that contain these traps??
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

It depends on were you grew up

I Live in NY but grew up in the south and AT 51 lived through white only bathrooms, white public swiming pools ect ect


My children are 19 and 22 so as much as everbody wants to think these problems we so long ago and people should have gotten past it was pretty recent


Tommays
 

sun_runner235

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
176
Re: My kid didn't pass!! It's the state's fault!!

I'm gonna get blasted for this.....but coming up through school for me was split into two periods. The first half of my schooling, paddling was allowed. I can speak first hand that a nice wooden paddle sitting on the teachers desk was an efficient deterant from kids stepping out of line. Starting in 6th grade is when the school board did away with paddling. Most of the kids in my class and older still had your typical middle school and high school misfits, but for the most part everyone stayed out of trouble. The kids coming up behind me, and definately those that started school after paddling wasn't allowed were much more troublesome for the teachers. Taking paddling away took control out of the classroom. All a teacher can do now is "time out"....time out from what? Doing their class work? That's what the lil punks want. Oh then then if they get REALLY bad, we're gonna suspend them for 3 days. Now they can sit at home and play video games while their parents do nothing but point fingers at the school and criticize what they should have done.

Logic statement.

Paddling = controlled classroom
Controlled classroom = good learning environment

THERFORE:
Paddling = good learning environment
 
Top