My Merc 470 rebuild

[stonyloam]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Convincing my father that we need to retorque after 20 hours is not an easy task. I already mentioned it to him and he looked at me like i was insane... torque each bolt with complete clearance to 130lbs is not easy... Now doing it while the engine is in the boat and rods and rockers are installed.. hah.

:facepalm:Well you better start working on him! Directly from the Merc manual:

Caution!
Failure to properly torque cylinder head bolts will result in very short head gasket life. Cylinder head bolt holes (located in the cylinder block) must be free of water or oil when installing cylinder head fastening bolts. Block failure may occur from hydraulic pressure buildup while torquing head bolts. Also, cylinder head bolts must be retorqued after engine has been brought to normal operating temperature. Failure to do this can result in head gasket failure.

Now that last part is a little vague, and there is some debate if it should be done while the engine is hot or after it cools down after it has been run. I did mine hot, and it seems to be OK. Anyway there is no debate that this should be done after it is run up to temp the first time. And yes it is a pain to pull the rockers to do it (especially when they are hot) but would be a lot more of a pain to have to replace the head gasket again. Maybe a couple of drinks will help, good luck.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

The only item I don't have is the belt can you give me the number?

Number is probably not going to help much because of the different setup. Set your alternator to about midrange on its adjustment and take a piece of rope and wrap it around the belt path, mark where the ends cross and measure it. That should be your belt length. Take your alternator with you to make sure you get the right belt width and you should be OK.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I attached a few more pics

In this picture, can anypone tell me ehat this thing is with the yellow handle? Its in my dog house.. but for what i dont know...


My car looks like a toy


Few pics of the dog house...






Can ony attach 5 files per post...

I will add more soon, but i guess this shows it all...

Can anyone please suggest to me how i can clean this up good? Which stuff should i get? Its a mess.... Other engine is coming out in a couple days

 

[Fishermark]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

In this picture, can anypone tell me ehat this thing is with the yellow handle? Its in my dog house.. but for what i dont know...

It looks like a gallon Prestone jug to me......


... or are you talking about the valve under the fuel / water separator?

Is that a thru hull fitting? If so, it's probably a ball valve - or seacock.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

It looks like a gallon Prestone jug to me......


... or are you talking about the valve under the fuel / water separator?

Is that a thru hull fitting? If so, it's probably a ball valve - or seacock.

Its a seacock thanks!
Now the question is what the heck is it used for?? LOL

Well today we just about finished everything up with engine number 1.

Tomorrow we will fire her up for the first time and burn her in some, then retighten the head bolts.

Hopefully all goes well...

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

ok so now we are getting more into the electrical side of things....

I do have the Alt conversion kit, but have not yet upgraded to the electronic ignition.

With the Alt conversion kit, as i understand it, the stock voltage regulator is no longer used, so i guess we will just keep in on the motor as an ornamental peice .
As per the wiring instructions in the motors service manual, it all has to do with the voltage regulator.
So now we are trying to figure out how to exactly wire it with the Alt kit we got from Breezeworks.
I do have the instructions that came with the kit, but they are VERY vague. Not one mention of stator or voltage regulator in them. I would assume since that is what the Alt kit replaces, it should be mentioned...

Tomorrow will be fun...

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Alex, spend some time researching you tube for MerCruiser 470 related video. I see the 470 set up on a shipping pallat and test run. Keep the RPM's low the first 20 hours and run at different rpm's. I do not like to run my 470 more then 3200 RPM. I know the rating on the 470 is 4500 RPM but given the history of rod knocks on # 1, 3200 RPM is fast enough for me. MerCruiser puts a great deal of emphasis on the 20 hour break in service requirement for the 470.

I think i just about watched them all .

Some people are running them with no water :facepalm:

But from watching those videos i got the idea of making the stand for testing. And of course we will use water from a hose, and will use an external fuel tank.
We plan on running the engine on low idle for roughly 20 hours on the stand, then re-torque the head bolts, and do an oil change.

Thanks Mercruiser470fan, my dad is a hard nut to crack, he has his ways of doing things, and i like doing research and reading advice first. I am sure you know how it is with old timers.

here is some more pics taken today:

 

[stonyloam]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

With the Alt conversion kit, as i understand it, the stock voltage regulator is no longer used, so i guess we will just keep in on the motor as an ornamental peice .

So now we are trying to figure out how to exactly wire it with the Alt kit we got from Breezeworks.
I do have the instructions that came with the kit, but they are VERY vague. Not one mention of stator or voltage regulator in them. I would assume since that is what the Alt kit replaces, it should be mentioned...

Remove and tape off the wires from the stator to the regulator. Remove all of the wires from the old regulator (both ends), they are not needed at all.

Black lead to coil +, then to black lead of alternator.
female lead of red harness to red lead of alt.
Red wire to charging stud of alt, other end to large starter post (battery).

 

[stonyloam]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

We plan on running the engine on low idle for roughly 20 hours on the stand, then re-torque the head bolts, and do an oil change.
sure you know how it is with old timers.

I believe running it that long before retorquing is extremely unwise. It should be run up to operating temp, shut down and retorqued as per the manual.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Remove and tape off the wires from the stator to the regulator. Remove all of the wires from the old regulator (both ends), they are not needed at all.

Black lead to coil +, then to black lead of alternator.
female lead of red harness to red lead of alt.
Red wire to charging stud of alt, other end to large starter post (battery).

Thanks I will share this with my dad tomorrow.
We decided to leave the stator out completely during the rebuild and we also removed the magnets.

So let it run for a couple hours only before re torque? Will be tough for us to see running temp since we don't have any external gauges they are all in the dash of the boat. I will probably take a trip to autozone to see what they have that i can use for the temp guage... something cheap i hope...

maybe something like this:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Sunpro-2-in-100-to-280-degrees-Fahrenheit-black-face-mechanical-water-oil-temperature-gauge/_/N-260f?itemIdentifier=477604&_requestid=1500419

 

[Fishermark]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

This thread is long enough that I have forgotten already - (and don't care to reread everything! ) - but if this is a complete rebuild with new rings, etc. It's not a good idea to simply run the engine at idle speed. The rings need to be loaded up at various speeds in order to seat properly.

 

[scv76]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I believe running it that long before retorquing is extremely unwise. It should be run up to operating temp, shut down and retorqued as per the manual.

So let it run for a couple hours only before re torque? Will be tough for us to see running temp since we don't have any external gauges they are all in the dash of the boat. I will probably take a trip to autozone to see what they have that i can use for the temp guage... something cheap i hope...

maybe something like this:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Sunpro-2-in-100-to-280-degrees-Fahrenheit-black-face-mechanical-water-oil-temperature-gauge/_/N-260f?itemIdentifier=477604&_requestid=1500419

A few hours may still be too long a time

 

[stonyloam]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

A few hours may still be too long a time

Agree, 15-20 minutes should be OK, if your thermostat is OK it will come up to temp and stabilize, give the head and block time to heat evenly. I never even looked at my gauge. You can feel the reservoir and heat exchanger getting hot. The whole reason (I think) is because of the iron head with the Al block, they need to come up to temp and since they expand different amounts need to be retorqued after heating. All of mine turned a bit when I retorqued.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Well today we fired her up for just a few seconds, like 30 seconds or so to test her out and make sure alt, ignition and wires are all set correctly... Engine started up on first try and sounded NICE!!

Tomorrow we will work on the break in.

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

you could always add one of these:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...t-Thermocap-Radiator-Caps/?autoview=SKU&RC=25

(mechanical temp gauge built into the radiator cap). They are sold in different psi ratings to match what is existing.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

i got one of those 3 in 1 deals from the auto store for a few bucks. oil pressure, water temp , and voltage meter.

We should be completely done with this engine tomorrow, and get it back on the boat, then begin working on the second engine which hopefully will move a bit quicker...

I am just happy it started up on the first try, with no puffing or anything, sounded loud, but smooth. It was only on for a minute or so, but we need to tweak a few things before we run for a good half hour then re-torque the head bolts.

My father dosnt get that the black wire from the Alt goes to coil +, he is one stubborn man.
It was hooked up that way but the coil got real hot and it didnt look like the battery was getting any charge back. Tomorrow we will need to fiddle a bit more with the Alt wires.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

wow this thread has alot of views, i hope some of the technical issues and pics can be of use for some people.

Its an age old tale of working on motors with dads. I am just going status quo. I also have a complicated relationship with my father, and it wasnt all peaches and roses when i was younger as my parents are divorced and i was with my mom in NY while my father lived 1000 miles away in FL. Its complicated and i really dont want to turn this thread into a sentimental thing.

That said, old timers like my father know from experience and dont rely on advice for anything they "think" they might already know. For me thats frustrating because these forums have advice from pro's who have done this many times. When the motor started up with no hiccups today, my father was really happy and excited about it and patted himself on the back, saying "see even after 30 years I didnt forget!" Its very humbling for me.

So i started to talk to him about breaking in procedures... He told me he has broke in engines before and knows how to set the seals etc etc etc... I told him, well maybe its different for a marine engine, since he has only worked on old car gm and ford engines, he just shook his head and said nope breaking in an engine is breaking in an engine, it does not need to be as complicated as the book says and it can be done just like an auto engine since this is a ford head.
I trust what he says and let him have his fun... Afterall he did manage to get the engine running nicely on the first try.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I spent a couple of hours with my dad (an old farmer) explaining no-till crop farming (planting directly without plowing) and after I was done, know what he said? So when do you plow? LOL. After you run it for a while, sneak out there and retorque it and don't say a word. Good luck.

 

[MichaelBTR]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Alex - Check the Service Manual _03 on page 1A-5 for the details on the 20hr engine break-in. You can download the service manual from this forum. Talks about using a straight 30wt detergent oil for break in and normal operation. If 30wt is not available then next best is 20w40 and then after that it lists 20w50. I was not sure how to attach just that one page to this post and am too lazy right now to figure it out! First post and all! You certainly do not want to idle it for 20hrs at constant speed and rpm. Good luck and thanks for the info. Cheers.

Michael
81 Sea Sprite, Merc 470

 

[mohead1]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I thought the A-frame build was good too, gives me some ideas if I ever need to pull my motor outta the Wellcraft. I didnt want to weld something up for a temp type fixture. That was a good idea, even have a trolley on there?.......