My Merc 470 rebuild

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I thought the A-frame build was good too, gives me some ideas if I ever need to pull my motor outta the Wellcraft. I didnt want to weld something up for a temp type fixture. That was a good idea, even have a trolley on there?.......

The 'A' frame is great for us. We actually made 2 of them, one thats in the picture is the smaller one that sits in the garage, its roughly 8' high and 6' wide. We used a 2x10 for top support with 2x4's for legs, made the trolley out of metal bars we got from home depot and 2 heavy duty wheels (trolley works on both 'A' frames), we also got a 2 ton pulley which works great. The one in the garage is used for lifting the engine off the metal engine stand onto the wooden engine frame with wheels for testing and moving the engine to the outside 'A' frame. We made a 12' high and 12' wide 'A' frame with 2x6 legs for outside to lift the motors out/on of the boat. Our boat has a 10ft beam and sits very high on the trailer.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Quick update--

I ended up getting the wrong gasket .. again.. for the exhaust manifold riser... so we had a no go on breaking the engine in... Not until the right gasket comes in. Apparently i have the aluminum manifold, and the gaskets were for cast iron... Looked like, and weighed like cast iron to me.. oh well...
The pertronix ignition/coil upgrade did not come in yet, but we are somewhat figuring out the wiring that needs to be done with that and the new alt kit too. Too bad this is completely undocumented in the service manuals.

We removed and have already begin the rebuild process of engine number 2.

Next we will inspect and begin rebuilding/repainting both alpha one outdrives. I did get the alignment tool, but not sure yet how its used. Both outdrives are sitting on stands, one is missing the bottom protection peice, which i read is not vital for performance, just protection. Will probably start another thread on the rebuilding of the outdrives. Both me and my father have no clue with them. Engines at least we both know how they run, outdrives not.

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Man... where are you ordering that gasket from?? they shipped it by canoe?

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I hate to badmounth companies online. But here goes...

i ordered from http://www.psep.biz/

I will never order from them again, for anything! Not even if they pay me!

They have NO customer service, what they said was in stock apparently was in stock in CHINA. They dont pick up phone calls nor answer emails.. not one Email answered, and i left like 5 messages on the phone, no one ever called me back. Horrible online experience.

I just reordered the gaskets from wholesale marine, same day i got the tracking number and it should be here in a couple days. Now thats good service and what i expect from online orders.

The other place is either a scam, or i dont know. Nothing ever came in yet, my card of course was charged right away, and no one ever contacted me. I will dispute it if nothing comes in this week from them.
And as you could imagine, since rebuilding these engines, i am ordering lots of stuff, i get deliveries basically every other day since i started this project.
This type of crappy service really sets us back.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I just go to my local Mercruiser dealer for most (head gasket, engine gaskets, plug wires ect) of my stuff. Luckily they will order either OEM or sierra for me. Costs a little more (OEM a lot more LOL), but they are also willing to give help and advice when I need it. Well worth the couple of extra bucks.

 

[fmalott]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

i'm just starting my 470 rebuild and i already did the alternator conversion i was told you don't have to remove the old voltage regulator but he said to replave the regulator with a clear hose or tube of coarse it has to handle the heat, reason is you can see the flow of water then you know your water pump is working with out taking out of the water i think that was a wise move i will do that

 

[scv76]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

i'm just starting my 470 rebuild and i already did the alternator conversion i was told you don't have to remove the old voltage regulator but he said to replave the regulator with a clear hose or tube of coarse it has to handle the heat, reason is you can see the flow of water then you know your water pump is working with out taking out of the water i think that was a wise move i will do that

I'd be afraid the hose would collapse..I don't have a link handy, but I have seen in-line flow gauges that would be pretty handy for this situation

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I am scared to use a clear hose... As long as the old reguilator is in one peice i will use it only for cosmetics, and let the water pass through it.
We ran the engine for roughly 2 hours at a high idle to break it in a bit, temp ran a steady 150f, oil pressure was steady at about 73psi. Are these numbers ok?

We finally completed the first engine this past weekend, we ran into some issues with the cooling system and the charging system. Everything else went very smoothly. I am also now kind of regretting not using speedi sleeves, i am worried that dreadful cam leak will more sooner then later negate my new rebuild... I will use it on my 2nd engine.

With the cooling system, while we were test starting the engine, water from the raw cooling system was making it into the cylinders... We eventually figured out it was because we had high water pressure from the running hose, and it was running while engine was off, so water was filling up the exhaust riser making into the exhaust manifold too quickly, therefore getting into whichever cylinder was open... We then just turned on the raw water after we started the engine, and turned off the water before we shut it down... This solved that issue, which of course would never happen when outdrive is connected, since the outdrive only pumps water when the engine is on anyway.

Then we had some confusion with the Alt conversion kit wiring schema. Mainly it was confusing since we rely mostly on logic. Logically black wires are negative, on the alt we got, black and red were both positive. Eventually we worked it out thanks to these forums.

now onto engine number 2!!!

Thanks to everyone here for their help on this, if it was not for these forums, we would never have gotten this done so smoothly and quickly.
-Alex

 

[jimbo550]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

I just wated to start a thread with my rebuild process. Possibly get some hints or pointers along the way.And hopefully help a few folks out who are doing the same type of project. This is my first ever rebuild, and i am doing it with my dad, which has some knowledge with motors from like 30 years ago.

First off, i have heard lots of criticism about me rebuilding the engine.. its a dinosour, not worth it, etc etc.. I dont care about any of that, i like this engine and am sticking to my rebuild.

I inherited 2 merc 470 3.7ltr engines, both were in unknown condition, one was "newer" then the other. One was from 1987 (came with no head) and the other was from 1991.

So i planned on rebuilduilding the 91. looked clean from outside, but when i checked internals it was messed up bad. The 87 is actually in better shape on certain parts, but was obviously left outside for a while so the piston rings got locked bad, and some other parts got rusted.

So first thing I did was got the head that came with the 91 cut , and resealed.

The 87 since it was frozen i gutted to get the block regrinded, The crankshaft also has some rust but the bearings are all in really good shape. I will get that grinded down anyway due to the rust on the shaft.

I will end up using the 91 as the complete rebuild. When opened it up, the oil was 50/50 water, and considering how the crankshaft and oil pump filter looked, it was run like this . The crankshaft and rod bearings are messed up with burn lines all in them. I will have the crankshaft and block grinded and replace all bearings and pistons.


I would appreciate any hints or pointers about the complete rebuild process of this engine type. Maybe something i may have missed or even upgraded parts i can possibly use to maximize engine life.

I did purchase the alternator upgrade kit already for this engine (from breezeworks, great guys there!), and i do plan on getting the electronic ignition conversion.

if you rplace the stator w/ the wagner alternator set-up be sure to torque both of the grade 8 bolts that hold the cast aluminum alt. bracket to the block torque to 65-75 ft # check that torque at the start of every boating seasonor periodically.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

We decided to redo the first engine a bit, we decided to go ahead and get it right by using the speedi-sleeve on the cam to avoid any future leaks there. This will only set us back a day and a couple cheap gaskets, its worth the effort in my opinion.

 

[dollarten]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

We decided to redo the first engine a bit, we decided to go ahead and get it right by using the speedi-sleeve on the cam to avoid any future leaks there. This will only set us back a day and a couple cheap gaskets, its worth the effort in my opinion.

Congratulations on you efforts ! This has to be a very rewarding experience and a sense of self fulfillment . Good call on the speedi sleeves . No need to worry about a major job that was completed and worrying when it is going to fail . On the break in procedure . only 20 minutes is all that is needed . All that you are doing is making sure the engine is getting oil right away and that the new cam and lifters are getting mated together . You might want to to a zinc additive in your oil on breaking in a new cam also . Many automotive shops carry this product . Good luck with the second engine

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Congratulations on you efforts ! This has to be a very rewarding experience and a sense of self fulfillment . Good call on the speedi sleeves . No need to worry about a major job that was completed and worrying when it is going to fail . On the break in procedure . only 20 minutes is all that is needed . All that you are doing is making sure the engine is getting oil right away and that the new cam and lifters are getting mated together . You might want to to a zinc additive in your oil on breaking in a new cam also . Many automotive shops carry this product . Good luck with the second engine

We didnt use a new cam, we used the old one which was in good shape. We did oil everything up during assembly. It is really rewarding and educational... Both me and my father have had lots of fun doing this, and it is only gonna get better!

 

[fmalott]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

there is a clear hose that will work i went to a local hose place that specializes in different hose i told him what i wanted something that will take the heat of a engine and he showed me the hose and it looks strong so i'm going to try it see what happens. i guess it's one of those learn from your mistake things LOL
PS it not like that fuel line type it's pretty heavy duty

 

[sasto]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Keep up the good work Alex. I'll be watching you!

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

If i can find something like that, for that price, in my area... I will go pick it up in a jiffy...

 

[jimbo550]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

470 ive got one its ok w/ me had it 10 years just change oil at least once a year. in the fall where clean oil lays on the bearings all winter i use either napa [valvelene] or kendal 30wgt one thing impt , good for all marine engines use@least one marine battery at least .group24,&use heavy battery cables both hot & ground dont use auto cables

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

I have no doubt that these engines CAN be reliable. Which is why we decided to even go along with this project of rebuilding them... ... through the months of rebuilding we have also first handedly noticed all the design flaws.. How the cam seals are placed, on the cam, which is inevitable to fail, unless you use speedi sleeves. And failure means water mixing with oil.. not good! the cooling system which has closed and raw is a bit of a strange design, and water can easuly back into the exhaust manifold then into the cylinders, if water pressure is too high.. The really old stye stock charging system, which does not use an alt is just silly... My father likes the point system, since he knows how it works, but upgrading to the electronic ignition makes overall less maintenance in the future, since my dad also agrees that points need to be replaced when a tune up is done.

That said, this 4 cyl engine is a powerhouse! When that engine is running it ROARS power, which you would not expect from a 4 cyl.
Overall we are very happy with this engine, but know to address the design flaws.

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Just got the speedi-sleeves to install on the cams... Must say they are pretty simple to install and make a HUGE difference! I would say this is a must do whenever changing the cam seals, if not done previously. Also want to mention that since the seals are kind of spread out a bit, 2 of the speedi-sleeves are needed per cam to cover the entire area effected by the seals.

for my engine i ordered the SKF 99087 Speedi-Sleeves, which i guessed on, from reading other threads... It is a perfect fit, just does not cover enough surface area, so 2 are needed. (Total was about $50 with shipping costs)

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

I have gotten a few PM's asking how much i spent on this rebuild in total... In my next post i will do my best to list every item i purchased and machine work done, and costs associated with it.

I will list for my first engine only, and i am sure every engine is different because already for my second engine some things need to be replaced and others do not.. Its a totally different cost from engine rebuild to engine rebuild, for example my second engine's timing chain is loose and needs to be replaced, while my first engines was like new. Another thing, for my first engine i needed to replace the rocker arms because i didnt like how they looked, on my second engine they look new, so i wont be buying new ones. Much more things like that...

Anyhow i hope when i do put this list together, others with a 470 will have a reference for parts and can have a cost to compare to.

P.S. Sasto, im taking u out for a fishing trip once this is done!! NO EXCUSES (on your end)!! If your ever passing through or around Flagler Beach FL, please give me a shout. Come by for a dip in the pool and a bbq!

P.S.S. Whoever is reading through this "blog" "thread" please excuse my bad spelling, sometimes i type to fast for my brain to catch up (or is it the other way around?).

 

[alexr254]

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Re: My Merc 470 rebuildi

Here is a list I put together. This is the parts i got for one engine, and cost.

Block and Crank Shaft remaned, new pistons, new bearings--- includes overhaul gasket set.. I paid $550
Pertronix Electronic Ignition $130
Spark Plugs, Cables, Ditributor Cap= $70
Lifters= $50
Head Bolts= $60
Push Rods= $40
Rocker Arms= $70
Speedi Sleeves= $40
Alt Kit= $325
Head remaned, resealed= $85
Rebuild Carb= $140
new pump to carb line= $25
Exhaust Riser gasket= $15
Gasket Seal= $30 (a bunch of them)
Engine paint and primer= $60

So one engine ran me over $1600 to rebuild, not including many things, like tools, materials, oils, hours and hours and hours of work...... If you ask me if its worth it, i say HELL YEA IT IS!! Parts are not very hard to find as stated by many here, there is just about any part you need on Ebay, not to mention many online retailers.