My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

[Blujay96]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

I love it. That is a great way to get someone to pay attention. Bet they won't try something like that any time soon. But that is why I am glad I have a garage to keep my boat in.

 

[livin4real]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

You don't even show where you are from in your profile. What are you scared of?

Some people aren't scared, believe it or not. I wouldn't recommend trying to steal things from people's yards around these parts in Vermont either. Maybe not a lot of black belts, but quite a few black deer rifles.

Profile fixed. I'm a country boy who shares 120 acres with 4 other family members houses. My neighbor across the street is a shooting sports instructor with a state licensed shooting range on his property. Trust me, there are guns galore out here as well. I was on the Sheriff's Dept. for 3 yrs and have been a firefighter for 8yrs. I made the comment because of the "story" the poster stated of being a black belt (takes years of dedication and work to achieve) in TAE KWON DO (not Tai Quon Do as the poster put), yet he couldn't even spell it right? I think if I had dedicated a significant portion of my life to a skill, I would at least know how to spell it correctly. Then the whole part about throwing his knife past the guy and sticking it in the tree, etc. Sorry, I found the story a bit Steven Seagal'ish (On Deadly Ground) lol. We look after each other in our neck of the woods, be it family member or neighbor, it's a shame the rest of the world doesn't share the same values.

 

[cc350]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

Locks only keep honest people honest! If a thief wants it they'll take it.

 

[Blujay96]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

Yes but a lock is still better than nothing

 

[roscoe]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

Aren't you glad you started this thread and asked the question?

This thread won't die, even without your response.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

Again I am against killing someone for stealing your boat or any other replaceable stuff.

In Florida if you go to your camper because you hear a noise and someone is inside it you can kill them. -- It will cost you a bundle of money and aggravation but in the long run but there is a very good chance you will not be incarcerated.

TX - This is the part of the statute that is a bit sticky....

(5) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

(b) "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.

(c) "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

 

[rentprop1]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

The best rule is this: don't kill anyone outside who is just messing with your stuff, no matter how mad it makes you. And the next best rule to remember: don't have your gun out to threaten or scare the other guy; have it to protect yourself from harm.

ahh, ha ha ..... never mind I see your close to D.C


if I were you post a bunch of these !!
.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

....I am against killing someone for stealing your boat or any other replaceable stuff...

"Killing someone for stealing your boat or any other replaceable stuff"

When someone is stealing your stuff, you shouldn't be killing anyone for stealing your stuff; how infantile.

However, presenting a lethal force in defense of life or property is appropriate.

 

[JimMH]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

ahh, ha ha ..... never mind I see your close to D.C


if I were you post a bunch of these !!
.

I have actually seen that sign in Much larger letters on a Ranch entrance Gate in Bryan College station, TX. The owner, a friend of mine, is a retired doctor and I believe he means it.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

Well put.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

Mark this is where you are wrong, legally: "However, presenting a lethal force in defense of life or property is appropriate."

You can use deadly force to protect life but NOT property. This is not the same as "someone is on your property." That someone might be, or presumed to be, a threat to "life."

Luckily I'm far enough away from DC so that I can be armed and for better or worse live in a state known for selling guns. I split my boating time between the city and a very remote area. IN each I really only have to worry about petty theft and mischief (like when someone launched my boat one night and forgot the plug).

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

Mark this is where you are wrong, legally: "However, presenting a lethal force in defense of life or property is appropriate."

You can use deadly force to protect life but NOT property. This is not the same as "someone is on your property." That someone might be, or presumed to be, a threat to "life."

Maybe in Vermont, but not in Texas (after dark):

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a Lockean philosphy debate

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a Lockean philosphy debate

Maybe in Vermont, but not in Texas....

John Locke would be proud of Texas law; so would Jefferson. This thread is getting way off topic (stealing a boat trailer) but it is fun, and lets me exercise some thoughts I haven't spent much time on in recent years

I am in Vermont; I am not a lawyer, however. But if I detained under gunpoint someone stealing my car or breaking into my tool storage, I am not worried about being prosecuted- at all. Now if the guy threatened me in some way and necessitated discharging said firearm, I would expect to be temporarily separated from my firearm and a pretty uncomfortable investigation to ensue, but in the end, I have no fear of being arrested.

Unfortunately, in many states "Natural Law" and governmental limits on freedom only to protect individual rights basis set up by our constitutional framers (based a lot on Locke's treatises) has been compromised by legislation. So there does exist legal complications in some states.

The Lockean idea that one's produce (income, these days) becomes part of one's self by very nature that we have invested our selves into it supports the position that to defend ones property is an extension of defending one's person. I am sure with the history of Texas and a lot of other western and south western states this is the reason that their laws reflect this poignantly due to very real understanding of cattle rustling, mixed grazing, and trespassing.

I am not advocating the 'wild west' either, but as highly as I respect our law enforcement, if someone is stealing my tools, the police probably won't arrive in time to stop them. And I really don't think yelling out, "Freeze! Don't move! I have a phone and I'm calling the cops!" is really going to detain anyone for the impending police arrival And if they are armed...?

Presenting or - God forbid- using lethal force isn't something to be entered into lightly, but I would rather have that option. Then at least I have a choice. And the gravity of such choice I hope is always a deterrent to me or anyone else unless it is necessary. But I want that choice, and I am glad that I have it.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a Lockean philosphy debate

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a Lockean philosphy debate

John Locke would be proud of Texas law; so would Jefferson. This thread is getting way off topic (stealing a boat trailer) but it is fun, and lets me exercise some thoughts I haven't spent much time on in recent years

I am in Vermont; I am not a lawyer, however. But if I detained under gunpoint someone stealing my car or breaking into my tool storage, I am not worried about being prosecuted- at all. Now if the guy threatened me in some way and necessitated discharging said firearm, I would expect to be temporarily separated from my firearm and a pretty uncomfortable investigation to ensue, but in the end, I have no fear of being arrested.

Unfortunately, in many states "Natural Law" and governmental limits on freedom only to protect individual rights basis set up by our constitutional framers (based a lot on Locke's treatises) has been compromised by legislation. So there does exist legal complications in some states.

The Lockean idea that one's produce (income, these days) becomes part of one's self by very nature that we have invested our selves into it supports the position that to defend ones property is an extension of defending one's person. I am sure with the history of Texas and a lot of other western and south western states this is the reason that their laws reflect this poignantly due to very real understanding of cattle rustling, mixed grazing, and trespassing.

I am not advocating the 'wild west' either, but as highly as I respect our law enforcement, if someone is stealing my tools, the police probably won't arrive in time to stop them. And I really don't think yelling out, "Freeze! Don't move! I have a phone and I'm calling the cops!" is really going to detain anyone for the impending police arrival And if they are armed...?

Presenting or - God forbid- using lethal force isn't something to be entered into lightly, but I would rather have that option. Then at least I have a choice. And the gravity of such choice I hope is always a deterrent to me or anyone else unless it is necessary. But I want that choice, and I am glad that I have it.

I personally wouldn't give somebody the death penalty for stealing my stuff. I'd really hate to answer to the man upstairs for that one. I think that the Texas statutes are carry-overs from the old days, when a person's property was nearly always his livelihood and his life may have depend on it. I believe that's also why there is a distinction between the daylight and nighttime in the actions you may take. In the daytime you could determine who the person was, if he were armed, etc...

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a Lockean philosphy debate

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a Lockean philosphy debate

I personally wouldn't give somebody the death penalty for stealing my stuff....

Neither would I.

But I would hold a thief at gunpoint until the police arrived.

 

[109jb]

Re: My neighbor tells me I am going to have a problem

If anything I think living in the country is MORE of an invitation for theft. I know that when we are away from our house in the country that there is nobody around to stop whoever wants to drive up and hook up to whatever they want. When we were building our house another guy building a house about a half mile down our road had 2 air conditioning units and full bunk of 2 x 4 lumber stolen from his lot. They cut the bands which were still lying on the ground. How long do you suppose it took to load 294 2x4's and 2 air conditioning units. My point is that in the country a thief is pretty much un-hindered by the worry of a nosey neighbor. If they know you aren't home they can take their time.

As I said I live in the country on a rural road and I still lock my doors and my property. As far as locking trailers I have some concrete piers sunk 4 feet into the ground with a big eye bolt embedded in them. A chain through one wheel and around the frame is a deterrent but nothing more. You can buy a battery powered grinder and put a cut-off wheel on it and zip through that in a matter of seconds. Certainly a lot less time than it takes to load a full bunk of 2x4's and 2 air conditioning units into whatever.

I have personally had items stolen from my rural residence and an attempt from our cars when we lived in a subdivision. In the country, nobody came in the house or the barn which were locked, but the gas grill and a wheelbarrow that were outside disappeared when we were gone for a weekend. We had the boat with us so they couldn't have stolen that from home. I believe that they left the house and barn alone because of the fake alarm stickers and the blinking LED's in the windows. The LED's were just stuck in the corners of the downstairs windows and were hooked to AA batteries is all. The theft did prompt me to have a genuine alarm system installed. In my opinion it is not the loss of property that is disconcerting, but the invasion itself that leads to an uneasy sense that YOU are not safe. Particularly for my wife it was not a pleasant experience knowing that someone came onto our property and took what was not theirs.

When we lived in town and were building the house in the country I had to run back out to the construction site around midnight. Walked out to my car to find a 22 year old guy sitting in my drivers seat removing the stereo from my truck. The skinny runt tried to get past me but didn't. I held him down and yelled for help. My neighbor called 911 and the twerp got arrested. Turns out he had robbed stuff from about a dozen cars on the block and had the booty in his car which was parked at the corner.

As far as the comments about being the victim of a crime that hasn't been committed and just relying on insurance to cover a loss, that assumes that you have insurance that covers theft and are willing to accept the inconvenience of being without whatever it is that is stolen. I carry only liability on most of my toys including my boat. Even if I had insurance to cover theft of my boat I would still lock it up because I would have to go through the inconvenience of looking for a replacement and outfitting it the way I want it. Putting in a few concrete piers in took me an afternoon using my skid-steer with my buddies skid steer mounted auger. Locking and unlocking the trailer takes me maybe a minute.

I say lock it up wherever you are.