My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

[snook]

Hello. My name is John, and I'm a longtime Florida flats/backcountry angler. In late 2000 I bought a DT85 Suzuki (still in a crate) from a local company that was close to going out of business. Less than a year into using it it develop a funky chirping sound under power that would occur in conjunction with dramatic dip in RPMs. The problem worsened and even resulted in zero power, forcing me to use a trolling motor to make it back to the ramp twice. I took it to a local dealer who "fixed" the problem, only to have it die again within two trips. Long story short, I took it to that dealer three more times, same result. Nothing was covered under warranty since the dealer blamed it on gasoline, not parts. (Some perspective: the dealer I took it to expressed disatisfaction that he was being asked to fix a motor he didn't sell me). I spent hundreds of dollars with the guy. I called Suzuki, who simply called the dealer for his opinion and backed the "bad gas" excuse. Please note: I use the same pump gas and octane all of my friends use in their Yamahas, Johnsons, Mercs, etc. without issue). I even switched to the exact gas the dealer recommended, and the same problem happened, leaving me in five foot swells (16-foot, low freeboard skiff) without power on an ensuing trip. I then took it to another local dealer who "fixed" the problem twice, charging me almost $400 the last time without a single new part to show for it. Same result. I called Suzuki again. They backed the dealer. I was polite with their Custoemr Service rep until the last call, when things got heated. The guy had a bored, "tough luck buddy" attitude that galled me.<br /><br />The boat/motor now sits in the shop of mechanic (non-Suzuki) friend of mine, who has tried to fix it without success. In his efforts to fix the problem, he called the first dealership and the owner told him that "that year of Suzuki motor is a nightmare known for carb issues", and offered little advice. This is the same guy who blamed me for using "bad" pump gas.<br /><br />I have been without a fiunctioning boat for the better part of three years, the (useless) warranty has now expired, and I've spent over $1500 and 8+ trips to shops for a problem that remains. I have no recourse other than to take the multi-thousand dollar hit and buy a new motor. I'm writing this partly to vent.<br /> <br />EDIT: deleted forbidden product bashing.<br /><br />Take care, and heed good advice.<br /><br />John

 

[JB]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

Sorry about your experience, John, but:<br /><br />Hundreds of thousands of Suzuki owners would disagree with you.<br /><br />Nothing can go wrong with an engine that cannot be fixed, even if it requires powerhead replacement.<br /><br />"Funky chirping sound" with reduced power gives most of us no clue. Probably didn't give the wrench any either, but it was a sign to stop using the engine immediately, not wait until it croaks completely.<br /><br />It is too bad you haven't found a wrench that could diagnose your problem and fix it. Too often they offer suspicious diagnoses like that to problems that baffle them completely. I am surprised that Suzuki backed them on such a patently vague finding.<br /><br />I have edited your post to delete forbidden product bashing. We welcome true stories, but do not allow bashing.<br /><br />Please remove the anti-Suzuki wording from your signature.<br /><br />There are people on this board who can guide a competent wrench or amatuer to fixing that engine, but we need some hard evidence and test results to work with.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[jim dozier]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

I would guess that the 2000 Suzuki DT85 Mikuni carb is not much different than a 1981 Suzuki DT85 Mikuni carb except for the addtion of a throttle position sensor for the electronic ignition. So the dealer claims of carb problems are probably dealerspeak for "I don't know and don't really care what your problem is, go away". Sounds like you have a dealer problem rather than an engine problem. That engine has been around a long time and the only major change was the change to electronic timing in 1988.<br /><br />It sounds from your incomplete description of the symptoms like the engine is going into "slow mode" from a sensor signal in either the oil flow sensor of or the overheat sensor. I can't believe that a competent outboard mechanic couldn't come up with a proper fix for it.<br /><br />The problem has to electrical/electronic, carbs don't "chirp" when they act up. Two-stroke outboard engines "sneeze" if they are running lean at idle. <br /><br />Go to the bottom of this web page and buy a manual for this engine and read up on it. You have to take command of this problem since you aren't getting help from Suzuki or the dealer. Perhaps if you could narrow the symptoms down a bit some other competent mechanic or someone on this board can help you achieve an economic resolution to your problem.

 

[snook]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

JB, you wrote: "Hundreds of thousands of Suzuki owners would disagree with you."<br /><br />Scores of posters on this forum agree with me - the Suzuki section of this forum features the most complaints about customer service, far and away. My primary issue is not with the (brand new) motor having problems - it's with a company that took zero steps to rectify a recurring problem under warranty. I've been fishing Florida's west coast for years, JB, and I know how a good outboard performs...and how a reputable company handles faulty product. I will follow your forum guidelines, but it's my prerogative to make my opinion known, as well, if only to save other posters the crud I've endured.<br /><br />"Funky chirping sound" with reduced power gives most of us no clue. Probably didn't give the wrench any either, but it was a sign to stop using the engine immediately, not wait until it croaks completely."<br /><br />First, I never ran this engine or any other until it "croaked completely" - in fact, compression tests show the overall motor is sound. If I took it in each time the power lagged, it would have been in the shop consistently the last three years. Second, as for the "chirp", two of the three mechanics who dealt with the boat said the sound is often associated with a lean fuel flow, though they never solved it. Oddly, the problem they both pointed to and "fixed" was fuel pooling in the carbs. The carbs have now been completely rebuilt - at my expense - three separate times in under two years. The mechanic currently working on the boat tells me the dealer installed the jets incorrectly after the last rebuild.<br /><br />"I am surprised that Suzuki backed them on such a patently vague finding."<br /><br />Not more surprised than I am, I assure you.<br /><br />jimd, thanks for a helpful post. You wrote: "Two-stroke outboard engines "sneeze" if they are running lean at idle."<br /><br />Agree - that's my experience with any carburated motor. I'm just unable to verify the chirping nose that occurs in conjunction with the engine failure.<br /><br />"It sounds from your incomplete description of the symptoms like the engine is going into "slow mode" from a sensor signal in either the oil flow sensor of or the overheat sensor..."<br /><br />I thought the same thing. In fact, I've done my best to check out both. I've run every inch of hose to check for crimps, changed the pump twice, installed a new fuel filter, etc. Since I fish very shallow water, I sometimes pulled some silt into the water intake line, which can slow water flow through the block and reduced the "pee" spray to a trickle. On my last motor (a Merc) I could pop off the elbow joint at the opening of the outbound hose, clean it with heavy monofilament (or just crank the motor and let it flush) and be on my way. The Suzuki is not designed as intelligently, so it's tougher to get to the hoses. I watch the water flow and it's generally strong, but I wonder if there may be some irregularly shaped sediment that's too large to pass, but large enough to move around and occasionally clog the feed, setting of the overheat sensor/alarm. Is that possible?<br /><br />Anyway, I welcome your helpful input, and that of anyone else who might have ideas re: getting the thing fixed. <br /><br />Snook

 

[snook]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

Update: Just talked the the mechanic who has it now - a friend - and he says he can't figure out why it's a recurring issue, but that he's convinced it's carb related. He won't touch it anymore b/c he'll have to charge me, and he feels that's unfair. He's recommending that I pursue a lemon law lawsuit - not sure if that can be done out of warranty. In essence, I have a three year old motor that has never run right and that has never had a dime of multiple repairs covered under warranty. Unbelievable. I stand by my comments about this company, especially the edited ones.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the help.<br /><br />John

 

[new2obrepair]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

Thanks for the post, I'm sorry for your troubles, but I thank you for the knowlege that I will NEVER own one myself!

 

[walden75]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

just to put in my 2 cents, about Suzuki service, I ran into a simalar problem with my first Suzuki i just installed on my boat (96 DT150) they couldnt give me a straight answer as to why the motor was idling so high, so just to make it easy on themselves, they up and decided to call it normal, (idle 1000rpms, so it throws hard into gear) They are a certified dealer, but Ive since left well enough alone, and hope for the best, on a positive note though, the DT150 runs alot better than my old Johnson, is alot quiter, and burns half the fuel, I can only hope for the best from here. Good luck with all your troubles<br /><br />Brad

 

[JB]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

While I respect your frustration, John, our policy remains the same.<br /><br />Unlimited freedom of speech stops when you sign on here. This is iboats' site and iboats policy is: No product, company or person bashing, period.<br /><br />We welcome reporting of your view of facts, which you have done, but not attacks. Without Suzuki's or the wrench's side of the story to balance your tale, they should not be allowed.<br /><br />I happen to be a very satisfied owner of a Suzuki engine. I have been messing with outboards for over 50 years and claim to know a thing or three about them. Although I have been a JohnnyRude fan most of those years, my Suzi is hands down the best outboard I have ever used.<br /><br />New2obrepair (Bruce): If you would make such a statement based on one frustrated person's telling his side of his story you are not as smart as you ought to be. That is exactly why we don't allow bashing.<br /><br />Enough about manners.<br /><br />John, if you can provide enough information, your engine can be repaired with advice from our Suzisperts here. Get a manual and give it a try.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

duders<br /> ya'll is killing me.<br /> I have been certified on a lot of high performance products both auto and marine. your dealers seem lacking. ask the techs for the school certs at a very minimum. suzy q's have a propensity to lean sneeze and make a very high pitched squeel from the exhaust idle chamber. were it mine I would start with a fresh carb overhaul and the plumb a line directly to the fuel pump . and go throgh the pump when ya do the carbs. the switch controls ign timing and timing alone. however if the switch does not function corectly the timeing wont advance correctly and you have no power.<br /> was this motor installed and PDI'd by a certified tech or did ya buy it out of the back door and winged it?<br /> my opinion is if ya buy it out the back and hang it yourself you have no warrenty and the selling dealer, if caught should lose the franchise. the 85 is about a solid a motor as you can ask for. seems your dealers are lacking trained and motivated techs.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[snook]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

JB, in one breath you say "no personal bashing", and in the next you tell a poster who offered a fairly benign opinion that "you are not as smart as you ought to be." Might wanna work on some consistency there, hoss. <br /><br />I'm not attacking anyone - I'm stating simple facts. My relatively new SUZUKI motor has a recurring problem that has cost me over $1500 and countless hours on the water. Their service techs locally have been confounded by a seemingly simple fix, and their customer service has been awful. I can assure you that I spend as much time on the water as anyone here, and that I've used many different outboards under many different situations. I will never buy another Suzuki, and I will recommend that others go with a different brand, as well. Is that unfair? In the big picture, maybe. But from my perspective, it would be a disservice not to mention the problems I'm having, in hopes that I can spare someone else the trouble. If that offends you and your biased notion of Suzukis, little I can do about that. I will admit that one of my friends has a Suzuki outboards and he has had no problems ot speak of. Issue, however, isn't with the problems - all mechanical things break, and I accept that. Issue is with the fact that once my motor did have problems, six trips, many hundreds of dollars and two separate Suzuki shops still have not fixed it. I called the first shop today to say that I am out of options. He said "You realize your warranty's over." I said yes. He replied "Sure, bring it on in." Can't wait.<br /><br />walden wrote: "so just to make it easy on themselves, they up and decided to call it normal, (idle 1000rpms, so it throws hard into gear)"<br /><br />My motor idles high and hops into gear, also. 60 Merc I had prior to this motor was louder at idle, but operated much smoother overall.<br /><br />rodbolt wrote: "suzy q's have a propensity to lean sneeze and make a very high pitched squeel from the exhaust idle chamber. were it mine I would start with a fresh carb overhaul and the plumb a line directly to the fuel pump . and go throgh the pump when ya do the carbs."<br /><br />Both shops claim to have done that - twice.<br /><br />"the switch controls ign timing and timing alone. however if the switch does not function corectly the timeing wont advance correctly and you have no power."<br /><br />I'll pass that along. Thanks.<br /><br />"was this motor installed and PDI'd by a certified tech or did ya buy it out of the back door and winged it?" <br /><br />Bought in a crate, delivered to dealer, installed by dealer, paperwork at dealer. Good question, but I wouldn't have a right to be outraged if I went about it half-, uh, halfway.<br /><br />See JB? I can follow the rules.<br /><br />John

 

[Semloh]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

You guys are missing it. John does not want help. <br /><br />He wants to complain about some horrible service. <br />Wouldn't you?<br />He paid 1500 bucks to have a motor fixed that was under warranty and it's still not fixed.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

hello<br /> well not meaning to bust chops but I have seen brand new motors rigged with 15 year old wore out rigging and 2 year old gas then the person was mad when it blew up and he had no warrenty. this happens a lot. also some dealers should be shut down. sometimes suzuki warrenty is a problem ya should have seen them in the 80's. but its kinda rare to have true warrenty issues. has anyone checked the crank throws? it is possible to have one off. maybe ask them to use a dial indicator and index the flywheel. but carb problems ,unless the carb is bad are not warrenty issues. the factory did not contaminate the carb.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[sturdavj]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

So whatever happen to this motor?

 

[wpalmisano]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

I agree Suzuki is a good motor but from a business standpoint I think they need coordinate their "official Suzuki Repair shops." I own a 1987 DT 65 and brought it to one shop I had previously had tune up the motor. I was told by the owner " I don't work on 2 cycle Suzukis anymore.????!!!? As I am new to this forum I am finding out many things I did not know, but it seems customer service is an area where some improvement could be made.

 

[robert graham]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

troubleshoot the motor, fix it, and go fishin' and quit bitchin' Good Luck!

 

[aztecrich]

Re: My Suzuki DT85....and my bad experience with a Suzuki

Tell you what, Just sell it to me for a couple of hundred bucks and I'll fix it myself and put it on my bass boat.
Then you don't have to be getting on here and crying your eyes out