Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

hostage

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

It is true that the private sector can do things with less red tape. I hope this boosts space travel. On another note I wish we increased the ammount of funding we give to NASA. I think in the goldenage it was about 7% of taxes, now it is about 2%. Then again I am one of those that thinks to hell with everyone in the present, lets try to help the people in the future for a change.

If China gave us a run for our money, then we would have a great space program.

A lot of taxes went to NASA at the same time a lot technologies benifited from thathe space era. No cellphones, gps, or dish network to say the least.
 

jkust

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

The more private business the better the the fewer of other non-descript types of entities the better. I struggle to see the benefit of the space program part of NASA. Not the near orbit satelites but the distant and planetary parts. If they discovered intelligent life on another planet and if they also believed in Jesus, then i'd be interested. At the end of the day, I don't care how spending is cut at this point so long as it is cut. I used to have preferences but now I don't.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

The more private business the better the the fewer of other non-descript types of entities the better. I struggle to see the benefit of the space program part of NASA. Not the near orbit satelites but the distant and planetary parts. If they discovered intelligent life on another planet and if they also believed in Jesus, then i'd be interested. At the end of the day, I don't care how spending is cut at this point so long as it is cut. I used to have preferences but now I don't.


Well one's imagination can wander but is that practical...... Here have a read http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/moon-mars/1283056
 

mk4713

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

We will see if helium 3 works out. If so there will be a space race to harvest it. W
 

jkust

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

Well one's imagination can wander but is that practical...... Here have a read http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/moon-mars/1283056

Sorry, I'm adding on to my original statement if they were do devise a way to visit distant planets in the habitable zone quickly like a couple days or a week, I'll support NASA. How frustrating must it be to live in what might as well be a hypothetical world since never in your lifetime will you visit the planets we seem to disover constantly. Worse than being an economist.
 

woosterken

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

I dont see the need to spend a bazillon dollars , the so called government DONT have , to go to the moon OR mars.
they have already been to the moon (suposedly) and there have been rovers on mars, and have not found any thing!
did I hear it cost nasa $10,000 a pound to send things in to space? how much would it cost for just food and water to get to mars, if like some one said 45 days.
we already know what is there or whats NOT there , so I dont see the return on investment.

sorry :(

woosterken
 

catfishcarl99

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

i agree. we aint been to moon IMO. radiation layer has said to be impossible for humans to pass. i think they faked it to win space race. and now look stupid since everyone else figured out it aint possible. any ways just MO. and i seen today they are thinking about closing some of illinois state parks. cant keep open a place for me to fish but can send $200,000,000 into a black abyss. humans for as smart as they are, are really stupid.
 

angus63

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

did I hear it cost nasa $10,000 a pound to send things in to space?

Fifteen yrs ago when I was designing and manufacturing deep space components, $10,000/lb was the factor we used to market our product and justify the use of high priced composite materials in place of conventional metals like aluminum, titanium, and magnesium. Nobody blinked at the figure then. I cannot back this up, but my experience and gut leads me to believe that number may be quite a bit more now.
 

rbh

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

I wonder how many patents NASA holds due to the R+D it took to get man into space.

(temperpedic bed, tang, cameras, wireless blue tooth sorta stuff, laser range finders???? ETC)

Great story about the steel cover for the nuke.
There was this weapons guy, Gerald Bull I believe, that came up with the idea of a rail gun to launch supplies into orbit, I guess the initial concussion would have been to much for a live person to take.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

I wonder how many patents NASA holds due to the R+D it took to get man into space.
Who holds the patents? Is it NASA itself or the contractors that actually designed and built the equipment?
 

Slide

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

i agree. we aint been to moon IMO. radiation layer has said to be impossible for humans to pass. i think they faked it to win space race. and now look stupid since everyone else figured out it aint possible. any ways just MO. and i seen today they are thinking about closing some of illinois state parks. cant keep open a place for me to fish but can send $200,000,000 into a black abyss. humans for as smart as they are, are really stupid.

As a Purdue-educated aeronautical engineer, I can tell you that the moon landings unequivocally did happen. The feat was incredible for the technology of the time; today, the trip is technologically trivial. My sophomore year introductory aerospace design class had us design a full mission profile, including a hardware layout, for missions to Mars, Titan, and Europa. If I still had the papers I could tell you the exact specs of the rocket you'd need.

Re: the radiation point, all spacecraft and especially those designed to carry human cargo are heavily radiation shielded. This does not eliminate the radiation dosage, but reduces it to a harmless level. Radiation dosage (except in the case of massive bursts) is measured at a rate, so all you need to to is stay at a safe rate. Everyone is exposed to radiation, it's a fact of existence. The only problem is figuring out how to limit it, which as I said, is fairly trivial.

Interplanetary and interstellar travel have their own box of problems to be solved in the radiation department, but it is certainly not insurmountable.
 

mk4713

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

This discussion may go on forever..... There are many skeptics to the moon landing, but many more people that believe it actually happened. Some people believe the JFK assasination to be an inside job. Its funny how people are skeptical , I would bet 99% of them are not aerospace engineers or in the aerospace field. There is no convincing skeptics. Do you think folks in the 17th century thought we would fly to outer space or even have cell phones that can do everything but wipe your tush?
 

QC

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

Who holds the patents? Is it NASA itself or the contractors that actually designed and built the equipment?
Depends on the contractual agreement. Intellectual property was less closely watched back then, especially by Government organizations. Today, definition of who owns what, and when, is all up front.
 

adamjr

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

Back to the original posters statements there is a very good reason to use commercial developers in the manner they are being utilized under the COTS program. The entire COTS program, according to NASA Assistant Director Lori Garver, is less then 10% of NASA's annual budget. Under the program the developers are partially funded by NASA and are required to supply a majority of their development costs by their own initiative. The program works this way because if they do not show significant milestone achievments they are funded at a lower rate in the next round of funding. Their is a finite amount of money that the program has to offer and if you want NASA money you better show progress.

The reason the COTS program is better then the old way of doing things is simply because it is cheaper. NASA engineers came up with a basic blueprint for the shuttle designs. Essentially NASA said "this is what we want, build it." That's what the prime contractor did. Cost was not an object to the prime, results were. There wasn't any incentive to achieve faster or cheaper. That's why there was a documentary before STS-1 called "Space Shuttle, the $14 billion dollar question" which detailed the cost and deadline over runs of the STS program.

NASA's budget is a scant $18 billion this fiscal year. In my opinion it should be doubled. The problem with that? No money. We as a country have bigger fish to fry. Consider also that the un-funded wars while we were still in Iraq had a combined cost of about $10 billion a month. NASA spends 100% of it's budget allotment. That puts a lot of people to work.

With regard to the retirement of the orbiters I have mixed feelings. I saw Discovery launch for STS-133. The wait was long and agonizing. My wife and I went in November 2010. It was delay after delay after delay from one technical issue with the orbiter after another. Then a weather delay. The following day when she would have gone there was an issue with a hydrogen leak at the fill/vent attachment. The same issue that forced us to miss the launch of Endeavor STS-127. Then during the post scrub inspections there was a fault found on the EFT where foam was cracked at the intertank structure. That caused a several month delay while a plan was formulated and then executed. I saw her fly, my first and only launch despite several attempts. Regrettably I saw her alone as my wife could not get the time off of work.

The Augustine commission report ( http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/396093main_HSF_Cmte_FinalReport.pdf ) had an option (2B I believe) that would have extended the operational life of the STS program until 2015 and the ISS to 2020. I can't find the chart but I've read the report cover to cover at least twice. That strategy would have flown the STS at a minimum flight rate which would be 2 launches per year for the entire fleet. In my opinion that option should have been implemented with Discovery being retired immediately and Endeavor and Atlantis only being used. There is no other vehicle with the lift capacity of the STS and with two flights per year it would not eliminate the need for Russian, European, or Japanese participation but it would have made the recent delays in the Russian space program a lesser issue than it was.

The orbiters also were decommisioned when they were because the facility that built the EFT's in Michoud Louisiana had been closed and it would have cost a significant amount of a non-existant budget to reopen the plant and begin making new tanks. The tank that flew on the last mission, STS-135, was a spare tank that was damaged during hurricane Katrina and was repaired and kept as a spare. If not for that tank it would have ended with STS-134.

Am I passionate about this? Yes I am!
 

mk4713

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

You are very passionate and I don't blame ya. I can now see by allowing private companies in will free up time and money for NASA to develop another platform to replace the shuttle. With the extreme defense spending starting to decrease a bit I hope NASA can kick it into high gear.
 

adamjr

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

I can now see by allowing private companies in will free up time and money for NASA to develop another platform to replace the shuttle. With the extreme defense spending starting to decrease a bit I hope NASA can kick it into high gear.

Precisely. If LEO (low earth orbit) is farmed out to private contractors under COTS it frees up a very small budget to develop the SLS to replace the STS. The SLS looks like a Saturn 5 moon rocket with a pair of 5 segment SRB's strapped to the sides. The first stage will be powered by space shuttle main engines while the core stage will be powered by a redesign of the Saturn 5 first stage engines. The capsule on manned flights will likely be the capsule that was in development for Orion which is now called the CST100 and is being developed by Boeing. If things go on schedule the development flights for the non-heavy version will begin in 2017. We shall see. A quote from the movie "The Right Stuff" which may or may not have actually been said in the 60's which is nevertheless true; "No bucks, no Buck Rogers."
 

adamjr

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Re: Nasa calling it quits!!!!!

Check this out for some high tech future propulsion. It isn't exactly hyperspace or warp drive (depending on your SciFi franchise preference) but it's faster than anything currently in use.
 
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