Need advice: carb specs for replacement Rochester 2bbl on Merc 165

spoolin01

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Jul 30, 2002
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The boat: 1972 22' Sportcraft deep-V runabout, guessing 3500lbs, with GM 250 I6 and Mercruiser 165 outdrive. Coastal use, northern California.

The currently installed 2bbl Rochester carb is in need of servicing, and was probably not quite properly installed when the motor was rebuilt 900hrs ago. Aside from the linkage not permitting the idle adjustment screw to do it's thing, the throttle has been sticky for some time and doesn't return to a consistent idle (this is not linkage related, that I can tell), and I'm pretty sure I recall there's no mechanical choke mechanism installed, though the plate is there and just works passively.

Rather than tackle this unit, I bought two replacement Rochesters off eBay. They are almost identical externally, but internally there are some differences, and I was hoping someone could help me pick the better one to use for my application.

One is a NOS unit with a tag marked 1351-4871A1, the other a 2010 Mallory (per the seller) reman. The bore in the NOS is slightly larger, and marked 1 1/4, the reman is marked 1 3/32. The venturi clusters are also a bit different in design. I've taken a couple of pics - the reman is the cleaner looking unit.

The jets in the reman unit are pretty clearly stamped 57. Those in the NOS carb are not clearly stamped. On one I can make out what looks like a 7, preceded by a partial stamp that appears to be the lower circle of a number, like 6 maybe. That circle appears to be fully closed, not like it was part of the number 5, but who can be sure. So *maybe* it's stamped 67. I can't find a rod that's an exact fit, but as best I can tell, the NOS jets are a bit larger in diameter than those marked 57. The conical taper in the top of the NOS jets is longer, such that the overall bore in those jets is a bit shorter than the 57 jets. Don't know if that makes a difference, but it makes the wiggle test with a slightly undersized pin harder to interpret. Pretty sure the NOS jet bore is bigger though.

The last difference I can see is that the NOS unit has some sort of bypass in the bottom of the accelerator pump tube, with a small plastic or ceramic ball, and a short passageway that leads over to the bowl. The bowl opening of that passageway has a cylindrical screen over it. The reman unit doesn't have this feature (bypass).

My thought was to go with the NOS unit, though it requires some clean up, largely because the accelerator pump works more smoothly, and because it's never been used. The pump on the reman sticks a bit, as best I can tell because the hole in the casing that the actuator arm passes through is slightly oversize for the arm diameter, and it binds under load. Can't 100% be sure that's why, but it's not as smooth. I've got a current rebuild kit, so the pump and needle valve in the NOS unit can be changed out for modern fuel compatible versions.

Is there a reason to prefer one over the other for the bore sizing, or venturi design, or any other reasons? I'd love to end up with better mid-range power, if this could be made to serve that end. I've got fairly low prop pitch, 17 if I recall, which works fine for most use, but when loaded and/or in heavy seas, I get pretty bad pre-ignition at anything above about 14 knots. I've adjusted the dwell and timing, but this has always been an issue with this boat. I never run above 3200 RPM or 22 knots, so top end is not something I care about.
 

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jimmbo

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Any idea what they were off of? Did the seller say they were for a MerCrusier 165. Regarding the jetting, there is more to it than just the jets, one carb may have 57s, and even though the other, may have say 67s, the actual metering may be almost the same because of air bleeds, different emulsion tubes. etc. Since they have different bore dia. they will have a different cfm rating. What size was the original carb?
 

spoolin01

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The NOS tag number comes back per Sierra as the 72-73 OEM item. The part number provided by the seller for the reman unit,1347-818620, also comes back as suitable for the 140 L4 and 165 L6 motors of that era, but in truth I can't say how the rebuilder assigns part numbers. No doubt jetting and venturi were not the same in all applications.

I don't have any information on the current carb - this motor was rebuilt from parts from two motors, a 160 and a 165, and I don't know which carb the guy used. The 160 was originally from this boat, the 165 came from a Sportcraft that was 2 ft longer. I'm pretty sure I ended up with the 160 block bored out from 230 to 250ci, and I seem to recall one head was cracked, but I don't know which parts came from where.

In addition to the differences mentioned in the OP, the hole patterns in the venturi cluster pick-up tubes are also different. The NOS unit has progressively larger holes as you move down the tubes, while the reman unit has holes that are all the same diameter. On the top side of the venturi cluster, there are substantial differences, seen in the pics in the first post, in what I guess is the idle circuit - the reman has a single long tube sticking up on each side (the bleed part of the circuit??); the NOS unit has two holes flush with the cluster casting.

Not knowing how any of that will affect performance, I don't see any rationale for choosing other than guessing that the unused NOS unit may more likely be set up in a manner suitable for this motor, and may be overall in better shape. I guess once I've got it installed, I can swap jets and venturi clusters to see if there's any noticeable difference.

Generally speaking, aren't bigger bores and jets more likely to produce more HP? Is that only true at high RPM?
 

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jimmbo

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Bigger bore usually means higher cfm, but there is also venture size and the size of the booster nozzles to take into account. Bigger jets doesn't always mean more power, it means richer mixture compared to smaller jets in the that carb.

Looking at the pics of the two carbs, I see the 1 1/4 and the 1 3/32. It might be the lighting, but the venturies look slightly different size too

Comparing the jets to the current carb, which right now you're not sure is the correct one either, only compares the main jets. There are some circuits, like the power enrichment circuit that are almost impossible to compare without the proper equipment.

You can try running them, just watch out for signs of too lean or too rich. Easy to say... If the Sierra number checked out for both the 140 and the 165 then it should be okay. Idle adjustment s would be a hair different and the accelerator pump setting might be different between the two.

Rebuilt/remanufactured parts are always a bit of a crapshoot, when it come to stuff on e-bay you're really rolling the dice
 

spoolin01

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Jul 30, 2002
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Went with the NOS carb, took it apart, cleaned the effloresence and discoloration, and put in gaskets, pump, needle valve, and such from a new kit. Found the proper missing heat riser tube and insulator on eBay, and am very pleased with the results. Idles smoothly, starts easily with no throttle, idle adjustment screw control is restored, and the plugs look good. Power seems fine, but it's not a rocket so who knows if that's a little different now. It's a little soon to tell about fuel economy but so far it looks better. It's no longer dumping gas down the throat at idle, which seems good!
Thanks to all for the advice, it's helpful to hear from others with some knowledge.

Mike
 

Bondo

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Apr 17, 2002
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Ayuh,.... Checkin' spark plug color can help ya dial it in,....
 
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